how is your layout going so far? I am at a point already this year to enjoy my layout in full real soon. I need to know and not in scale what most people would do with a 12 mile area of water in inches or pereption of distance. I am using smaller boats for chicago to the gary us steel mill and have 14 to 20 inches of room for a portion of lake michigan. driving distance is almost 3xtimes the amount 31.6 miles. I also ned to know if self powered cars trucks boats planes exist battery etc it does not matter around 2.25 wide 2.5 high. thanks in advance. this is in ho scale only.
I'm not totally sure of what you're planning, but it seems to me that you want to represent lake boats on a fairly sizeable representation of a portion of Lake Michigan, but create the illusion of them being farther away by using models in a scale smaller than HO.
It's my opinion that this might be difficult to pull-off convincingly in this manner.The photo below is my version of the Maitland River where it empties into Lake Erie (I am aware that the real Maitland River empties into Lake Huron )....
...perhaps if I had a fog-making machine, it might look better...
I have another area on the layout representing a very small portion of the lake, with no river at all, and plan to try drawings on paper or styrene to represent lakers at or near the horizon there and in the area of the photo above - not much detail other than silhouetted shapes. These would be temporarily affixed to the backdrop, usually only for photos, but they could be left in place longer if desired. I certainly wouldn't leave them in the same position, though.
I have seen a series of photos (the operation took longer than most 'phones could record as a video, I'm told) showing a tug and carfloat moving from one docking area to another. Here's a LINK.
Whatever the method to achieve it, I'd say it's a pretty impressive accomplishment, but I'm not personally a fan of such animation...too much like the guy throwing the milk cans into a car or the giraffe in the stock car for my tastes. I certainly don't want to discourage your imagination, or your attempt to model it, but I think that it will be too much in too-little space to look convincing.
Wayne
Several questions in the OP.
Addressing the water surface . . .
My N scale (sorry, OP stated HO only) layout includes a dam holding back a 20,000 acre reservoir. No Lake Michigan, but still pretty large. I could only afford to devote an area about 2' by 3' to the water surface. Compression!
Regarding boats . . .
The entire lower level will be a deep water port with at least three pretty large ocean-going ships: container ship (60"), automobile carrier (52"), and bulk ore freighter (48"). Again, N scale (again, sorry).
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Wayne. Your water looks really convincing. I know you're quite a Durabond 90 fan gathered from previous posts. To use it to model water quite impressive. How did you create the ripple effects.
Thanks
Track fiddler
Track fiddler Wayne. Your water looks really convincing. I know you're quite a Durabond 90 fan gathered from previous posts. To use it to model water quite impressive. How did you create the ripple effects. Thanks Track fiddler
your idea looks great i could do a beach scene easily with trees with the right lighting styrafoam and thick cardboard to save weight with left over materials. I was also wondering if you know of small cars boats or trucks battery powered or what ever that operate on there own.
jfb I was also wondering if you know of small cars boats or trucks battery powered or what ever that operate on there own.
Faller Car System
Beware - that doesn´t come cheap!
Thanks for the info.
For deeper water I think you have something over clear water rosin applications.
I am very eager to try this out sometime.
Thanks for sharing
Track fidler
jfb I also ned to know if self powered cars trucks boats planes exist battery etc it does not matter around 2.25 wide 2.5 high.
Hi jfb:
I'm not a big fan of having animation on layouts. Sometimes it is done very well but often it is not. However, I do like forced perspective scenes when done properly.
For an example of less than satisfactory animation, I would point out the Faller Car System. When I first got into the hobby I thought that I absolutely had to have a Faller Car System on my layout. However, after watching a few operating examples I decided that I didn't like the way the system performed. The movement of the vehicles is too jerky and unrealistic. The cars don't slow down for corners and they start and stop very abruptly. I find that totally destroys the intended effect for me. I'm sure if I was a passenger in one of the cars I'd have both motion sickness and whiplash all at the same time! If our trains operated that abruptly we would all have our shorts in a knot!
On the other hand, I have seen forced perspective used with good effect several times. One striking example that I saw this past spring was on an HO layout with a scene taken from typical Ontario cottage country. The track was in the foreground, then there was a decent sized lake, and then there was the opposite shore of the lake with 15 or so cottages on it. What forced the perspective was that the cottages and the trees were tiny. The cottages were only about 1" wide and maybe 1/2" tall. The tiny cottages really gave you the feeling that you were staring across a large body of water. I studied the scene for several minutes to see if the effect would wear off but it really didn't. What was even more amazing is that the cottages were simply images clipped from real estate ads and mounted on 1/4" foam core cut to the shape of the cottage profile.
So, after all that blathering on, my suggestion is to have an N scale ship or two, and maybe a seaplane, in the foreground in 3D and do the rest as 2D images smaller than N scale on the backdrop. You can add in wakes and prop wash for the seaplane, and replace the stationary propeller with a clear plastic disc to suggest that the prop is spinning. You can also cut the bottoms off of the floats so that they stop at the waterline, or leave them intact and mount the floats on pins so that they are just above the surface of the water as though the plane had just lifted off. There would still be a wake in the water.
Forget the animation. It will be a distraction no matter how well it's done.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
i have seen tyco and now know of faller cars etc. i am talking about anything even not train related manufacturers. please keep the ideas coming so far i am using a medium forested beach area that is manmade around 57th street on chicagos southside.
I thgink I´ll have to agree with Dave. Even though the Faller Cars System has come a long way in terms of realistic acceleration and deceleration since its introduction, there is still a certain unrealistic look to the vehicles "circulating" around a loop. Furthermore, there are very few US-prototype cars or trauck available. As to boats, things are even worse. To my knowledge, there is no such offer in the market.
Animation can destroy more of the atmosphere of a well-made lyout than it can contribute to it. The folks at Miniatur wunderland certainly are among the champions of animation, but even so, there is a toy-like look and flavor to all of the gadgets they present in their otherwise grand show layout.
seriously guys or women keep the ideas moving forward. I am looking to put all of this in by december 15th and have been working on the scenery 2 to 4 hrs a day since septmeber 10th. i am eager to just enjoy it and the more ideas the better for my situation.
With just 14 to 20 inches, I do not even see a way you have room for a convincing static model of a lake boat, much less anything with animation.
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I hate to be a wet blanket on this one, but I do not see a way to do this.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I feel that smoke, real running water, and repetitive motions inherent in animation/mechanized items relegates my layout to a toy-like appearance. Even so, and I have said this many times, they're all just toys.
What you should be striving for is the learning experience and the pleasure any hobby you choose to master brings you. If the smoke works for you, I would bite my tongue and enjoy the experience you present to me as you like it. It keeps our locomotive importers in business and me in replacement or new stock.
If you strive for realism, then real running water (much too fast in scale), smoke (not enough detail, roiling, and dissipation), and the repetitive motions of mechanized anything (except maybe crossing gates, which are often also much too fast), you'll have to move on to photography....if you ask me. Freeze those moments so that the fake motions don't give it all away.
i am shooting for a completed scene with real motion. my lake would be 10 feet from eye distance but 14 to 24 inches in size witha beach and trees behind it and another 1 to 2 feet total with the 8 feet or 10 feet from eye distance. i am after a city to country setting in indiana to the dunes. having real motion just seems more real but obviously the trains would have the real stage and finer details. i am asking also if since it is a total of ten feet of eye distance if the lake would be more convincing this is my first time around the block and my only build i now have more experience but this is unchartered territory for me.