cuyama Doughless It does seem odd that the loser knew what the next bid was He didn't.
Doughless It does seem odd that the loser knew what the next bid was
He didn't.
I was going off of what either Kevin or Rich said since I couldn't tell from the bid history that was posted.
I'm no conspiratorist. I only offered the possibility of a person running up the bill for a business reason, not because of spite.
Its a brass caboose. Something that may not get a lot of interest, unlike, say an Athearn GP9. So anybody in the brass collectors market has an interest in not seeing an item go for dirt cheap just because there happens to be not much activity that day. He doesn't even have to be related to the seller.
The more likley explanation is the loser just got tired of creeping up his bid. It has to end at some point if he's already maxed out.
- Douglas
I believe the majority of "shill bids" are from friends of individuals just wanting to jumpstart their auction or to test a bidders max.
The habitual use of a shill by a seller is - in my opinion/experience - pretty infrequent. In fact, I've caught on to it only 3 times to the best of my recall, and I've been an Ebay regular since 2000.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Truth seems less attractive than conspiracy theory, so I'll bow out.
... by the way, there are no alligators in the sewers in NYC, either.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
cuyama richhotrain Shill bids happen more often than you might think. Just ask eBay officials. I have a friend at eBay who works on fraud specifically. So I have asked -- and the answer is that it happens a lot less than it is rumored. So there's one data point.
richhotrain Shill bids happen more often than you might think. Just ask eBay officials.
I have a friend at eBay who works on fraud specifically. So I have asked -- and the answer is that it happens a lot less than it is rumored. So there's one data point.
C'mon, Byron, if it isn't a common occurrence, how come eBay commits so much in writing in its policy section about the practice and goes so far as to point out that it is illegal. Do a Google search, it is filled with discussions from legitimate sources about the extent of the problem. Where it most often happens is on auctions with unusually low starting bids and those auctions with lots of activity. It is easy to rely on surrogates to boost the price in such situations without actually being stuck with the winning bid.
Rich
Alton Junction
Couldn't help myself...had to jump in again on this worn out thread.....
Shill bids do exist - no question about it.
Also, on something I just have to have, I will "snipe" if the auction end times suits my body clock. Why put in your max bid up front, as it will often be raised by others just for kicks.
Yes, I know all the above by experience......."Mobilman44"
richhotrainShill bids happen more often than you might think. Just ask eBay officials.
cuyama richhotrain gmpullman I guess they call it sniping? It is called shill bidding when the seller or one of his surrogates makes bids to boost the current bid price. Rich Shill bids (which are mostly urban legends) are when confederates (or sock puppet identities) of the seller place bids to drive others’ bids up. This doesn't actually happen often, because the shill bidders might win the item -- and then the seller would be out the selling fees and would have to list the item again.
richhotrain gmpullman I guess they call it sniping? It is called shill bidding when the seller or one of his surrogates makes bids to boost the current bid price. Rich
gmpullman I guess they call it sniping?
I guess they call it sniping?
It is called shill bidding when the seller or one of his surrogates makes bids to boost the current bid price.
Shill bids (which are mostly urban legends) are when confederates (or sock puppet identities) of the seller place bids to drive others’ bids up. This doesn't actually happen often, because the shill bidders might win the item -- and then the seller would be out the selling fees and would have to list the item again.
How can you say for sure that shill bids are urban legends? Shill bids happen more often than you might think. Just ask eBay officials.
carl425He had no way to know that if he'd bid more that your automatic bid wouldn't have just outbid him again. When he stopped he didn't know if your max was $107.99 or $1,007.99.
+1
DoughlessIt does seem odd that the loser knew what the next bid was
Sniping and shill bids are pretty different. Sniping is coming in with a bid just at the last moment in order to win the item without others catching on that you are interested.
Coincidentally, I bought a brass PRR caboose just a few weeks ago. I was pretty satisfied with my final cost.
Untitled-1 by Edmund, on Flickr
I guess they call it sniping— but I only bid in the last few moments of an auction. I don't see any reason to get into a bidding frenzy when there is still hours — or even days — before an auction ends. I let the chips fall where they may and if the bid is still within what I'm willing to pay, I make my bid in the last ten or twenty seconds of the auction end.
I figure the next-to-last bidder has already entered his or her maximum (Silent Reserve?) and I simply fill in the amount that I'm willing to pay and wait a few moments for the results at the very end of the auction.
Usually it works out OK, but not always... No problem. It's only a hobby.
Regards, Ed
P.S. I had hoped the OP would have edited his "Feebay" title. Personally, I think Ebay's fees are in-line with other services out there.
My grocery store buys wholesale and then doubles the selling price. Turns out they have been doing this for years!
I think what Kevin is saying is that the losing bidder bid in small increments until he found the maximum bid of an opponent, then failed to bid an extra $5 to at least try to win the item.
Its a brass caboose. Those brass guys are concerned about value so it may have been the seller bidding by proxy to raise the price to as high as it could go, or maybe even a dealer trying to lift the "market value" of the item.
It does seem odd that the loser knew what the next bid was and couldn't muster the time or extra $5 to snipe the bid at the end and maybe win it.
SeeYou190 carl425 The only way he can determine what your max bid is is to outbid you. He had no way to know that. Oh yes you can!. eBay uses incremental bidding, At low amouts it raises the bid by only $1.00, then autobids up at different increments as the bid gets higher. If you know the increments, you can find a maximum bid.. My maximmum bid was $107.89 for this item.
carl425 The only way he can determine what your max bid is is to outbid you. He had no way to know that.
Oh yes you can!.
eBay uses incremental bidding, At low amouts it raises the bid by only $1.00, then autobids up at different increments as the bid gets higher. If you know the increments, you can find a maximum bid..
My maximmum bid was $107.89 for this item.
Let's say in that particular auction, you currently hold the highest bid which is $115.00, but your max (what I call the silent reserve) is $127.51. I don't know your silent reserve, but I bid an amount well in excess of $127.51 and, lo and behold, I now hold the highest bid which is $130.01.
The reason that it is $130.01 is because, at that level of bidding, the next "bid increment" is $2.50, using the eBay table. Knowing that the bid increment at that level is $2.50, you are prepared to recapture the lead, so you need to outbid me. What is my maximum bid (my silent reserve)?
Good luck!
carl425The only way he can determine what your max bid is is to outbid you. He had no way to know that
.
Oh yes you can!
eBay uses incremental bidding, At low amouts it raises the bid by only $1.00, then autobids up at different increments as the bid gets higher. If you know the increments, you can find a maximum bid.
My worthy and noble opponent's highest bid was $105.66, made wll before the auction ended. Since he knew the bid increment at this level was $2.50, and the bid only jumped by $2.23, he knew that he had found my maximum bid and forced me to pay the most I was willing to give for this item. The eBay proxy bid system will not jump by the full level increment if your max bid is lower.
If you look at the bid history and the amounts he bid, he is very good at this. I have to give him a tip of the hat for how well he did this to me.
I just found it funny it happened to me. I set myself up for it.
Like I said, it is all fun, and I just laugh it off. There is no revenge to it, maybe a slight amount of spite, but nothing mean.
All in good cheer.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 SeeYou190 When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount. Ugh! It happened right back to me. I hate being the bug, it is so much better being the windhshield.. I was travelling on Sunday, so I had to put my maximum bid in before I left. I outbid this guy, and he very craftily bid me all the way up to my maximum bid EXACTLY like I would have done it. He did it in just a few minutes and forced me to overpay. I guess turn-about is always fair play.. Oh well. I just had to laugh it off. At least I got another good caboose I needed.. -Kevin
SeeYou190 When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount.
Ugh! It happened right back to me. I hate being the bug, it is so much better being the windhshield..
I was travelling on Sunday, so I had to put my maximum bid in before I left.
I outbid this guy, and he very craftily bid me all the way up to my maximum bid EXACTLY like I would have done it. He did it in just a few minutes and forced me to overpay.
I guess turn-about is always fair play..
Oh well.
I just had to laugh it off. At least I got another good caboose I needed..
But, there is a flaw in your reasoning. And at least one other reply has pointed this out.
If the winning bidder was just being spiteful in an attempt to force you to pay more, that implies that he really didn't want to win the item but, rather, just force you to pay more. As Carl suggested, he couldn't know whether your max was $107.99 or $1,007.99. So, let's say that your silent reserve was $1,007.99 (because you are spiteful). In his spite, he places a silent reserve of, say, $10,000.00. He will now win the auction at $1,032.99. Now what? He will have to pay $1,032.99 for a caboose that he didn't want? I don't think so.
Kevin, you gotta get over this feeling of paranoia.
SeeYou190He did not want to win, he wanted me to pay my max bid. He accomplished that. He forced me to pay my max. Booo. He ran up the price, and he did it like a pro. I need to respect that.
You clearly don't understand how the bidding works. The only way he can determine what your max bid is is to outbid you. He had no way to know that if he'd bid more that your automatic bid wouldn't have just outbid him again. When he stopped he didn't know if your max was $107.99 or $1,007.99.
You shouldn't assume that others are as spiteful as you are.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
SeeYou190 SeeYou190 When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount. . Ugh! It happened right back to me. I hate being the bug, it is so much better being the windhshield. . I was travelling on Sunday, so I had to put my maximum bid in before I left. . I outbid this guy, and he very craftily bid me all the way up to my maximum bid EXACTLY like I would have done it. He did it in just a few minutes and forced me to overpay. . I guess turn-about is always fair play. . Oh well. . . I just had to laugh it off. At least I got another good caboose I needed. . -Kevin .
Ugh! It happened right back to me. I hate being the bug, it is so much better being the windhshield.
I guess turn-about is always fair play.
I just had to laugh it off. At least I got another good caboose I needed.
I don't understand why you or anyone else would take bidding on ebay personally, that's really Petty and Childish actually.
But I am Happy to see that Karma is Alive and Well
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
My feelings on ebay as both a seller and a buyer is wayyyy to many people are stuck in pre 2008 prices, espically on brass. I mean, seriously, how many times are you going to list a common PFM 2 truck Climax with bent foot boards at nearly $600 bucks? Best suggestion is when doing research on your pricing is to look at COMPLETED auctions, not the wishing prices so rampent on there every day. The completed auctions can be found thru the advanced search option. And it is there that one will find prices realized and the date it was sold. If the selling prices are not what you want for your model, then you are probably wasting your time and money listing the model. I have seen models relisted over and over at the same overinflated price for over an year in some instances. Those ebay listing fees ad up mind you. Just my 2 cents. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
I think the bidder was simply trying to win the caboose at the lowest possible price, not trying to spite anybody.
He tried to get by as cheaply as possible and lost out on winning the item.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI don't get it, he could have bid $1,000 but the selling price will still end up only being $5 more than the next lower bid?
He did not want to win, he wanted me to pay my max bid. He accomplished that. He forced me to pay my max. Booo. He ran up the price, and he did it like a pro. I need to respect that.
It happens. I usually do it to others, but this time it happened to me.
Like I said, I just laugh it off.
Only one more PRR NDa and my caboose fleet is completed! Hopefully the next one will be back in the $80.00 range where they belong.
Kevin, I don't get it, he could have bid $1,000 but the selling price will still end up only being $5 more than the next lower bid?
I buy on Ebay all the time, but when it comes to auctions, I place my max and walk away, I win or I don't.
But I'm not the kind of person who needs to "beat" anyone......my ego is not invested in that.
Sheldon
SeeYou190When someone auto-outbids me on what I really want, I have become VERY GOOD at sneak-bidding up to HIS maximum bid. If you stop me from getting what I want... I will make you pay for it. Spiteful losers like me are something to consider when putting in your "silent maximum" amount.
In recent years I have only purchased "Buy it Now".
It is easy. Before buying I do reasearch to determine if the the total cost is the lowest.
Last year I bought some out of production plastic model kits for $5.00- $15.00 less than the cost from other sources that had them. One has sense been put back in production at twice the price I paid.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
oldline1 Doughless If you want a minimum $600 for an item, set up an auction with the starting price at $600. If you'd be willing to take a little less, then make that little less price the starting bid. Apparently you have failed to read the many posts that have come before! Read them and get the answer to that statement. oldline1
Doughless If you want a minimum $600 for an item, set up an auction with the starting price at $600. If you'd be willing to take a little less, then make that little less price the starting bid.
Apparently you have failed to read the many posts that have come before! Read them and get the answer to that statement.
oldline1
I did. That's what prompted my response. You sell the item for the price you want, and ebay takes a 13% fee. Again assuming a minimum price is what the seller is looking for.
Why mess with BIN, Best Offer, Unreasonable Offers, Reserve Pricing. I don't know what y'all are even talking about or why anybody would want to use those features.
gmpullman BMMECNYC That part is really annoying, as ebay doesnt seem to understand that you can bundle shipping, I only use the "Shopping Cart" occasionally. When I do have multiple items in the cart I select the button that is labeled "Request Total From Seller" then the seller can send an adjusted invoice with the actual shipping charge applied. You can also attach a message to the seller during this time if there are any special circumstances or requests. Ed
BMMECNYC That part is really annoying, as ebay doesnt seem to understand that you can bundle shipping,
I only use the "Shopping Cart" occasionally.
When I do have multiple items in the cart I select the button that is labeled "Request Total From Seller" then the seller can send an adjusted invoice with the actual shipping charge applied.
You can also attach a message to the seller during this time if there are any special circumstances or requests.
Ed
Neat,
Thanks Ed. Never noticed that button before.
BMMECNYCThat part is really annoying, as ebay doesnt seem to understand that you can bundle shipping,
BMMECNYCBMMECNYC wrote the following post 8 minutes ago: oldline1 I think most of us are smart enough to look up the USPS website and calculate the cost to ship a package without them involved. That part is really annoying, as ebay doesnt seem to understand that you can bundle shipping, so they charge you the sum of all the shipping charges of the items in the cart. Most sellers go back and fix the shipping if you dont pay right away.
That's another thing that bothers me about THEM. I don't see why they should get 13% of MY SHIPPING COSTS. That rubs me. I hate to keep bringing up FEES but they seem to just create more of them all the time to get into your pocket. I think they make it difficult for sellers.
oldline1I think most of us are smart enough to look up the USPS website and calculate the cost to ship a package without them involved.
That part is really annoying, as ebay doesnt seem to understand that you can bundle shipping, so they charge you the sum of all the shipping charges of the items in the cart. Most sellers go back and fix the shipping if you dont pay right away.
BMMECNYC,
Many thanks for the research and posting for the procedures. I appreciate your time and efforts to help out. I have no idea why some of that stuff wasn't available to me when I was listing my stuff. Honestly, I tried to find it and did seek help but I find it very hard to find things there (I won't say feebay as a courtesy to those sensitive to the word) using their "help". It seems to run me around and around in a closed loop. The phone calls to CS..........well..........you read my experiences and feelings about that.
I didn't find anything about addind the reserve price. I DID find out how much they charge for the service. I also tried to make a couple auctions 3 day ones and found they add another FEE for that too.
Besides the listing issues and FEES I think another issue I have with them is their constant changes for everything. It's like when I worked for the airline......they thrive on confusing you. I also dislike having to use PayPal. I dealt for years on both sides of the auctions using checks and money orders with no problems. I sort of resent having to include another process that sucks up more of your money. Same with them dictating all the shipping. I think most of us are smart enough to look up the USPS website and calculate the cost to ship a package without them involved.
Anyway, it is what it is! Thanks to all that tried to help point out things.