SeeYou190 Sheldon, . Thank you for the pictures. It looks better to me as a 2-8-8-0. Do the rear set of driver wheels (unprototypically) swivel in the frame like a Bachmann EM-1? I do have 24" radius hidden curves that need to be dealt with. . -Kevin .
Sheldon,
.
Thank you for the pictures. It looks better to me as a 2-8-8-0. Do the rear set of driver wheels (unprototypically) swivel in the frame like a Bachmann EM-1? I do have 24" radius hidden curves that need to be dealt with.
-Kevin
Yes, like nearly all modern plastic/diecast articulated locos, the rear engine swivels as well for better performance on sharp curves.
And if you happen to have large curves, the fact that the rear engine swivels is not really noticeable at all.
They are great running locos.
Sheldon
Living the dream.
PRR8259 riogrande5761 What about that topic a while ago to argue that brass steam was the best running (over) steam engines in HO and IIRC, the topic discussed bad experiences with plastic. Has there been a change in sentiment since that topic? 1. I have been accused of not being objective, of being overly biased in favor of brass, so I thought we could "revisit" the question and see where it actually leads. 2. I am searching out what is worthwhile due to a change in financial status. My son needs to play travel baseball to get playing time due to local politics. That will cost me literally thousands of dollars (it's what he wants to do and he is actually good). Just yesterday a catcher from a team who mercy-ruled his JV team talked to him at a local university's baseball clinic, and was in utter disbelief, seeing my son pitch yesterday, that the jv team wouldn't pitch him, and said he should have been the starting pitcher instead of pitching mop up to get the last batter of the season out...that it would have been a far different game! 3. I do firmly believe you get what you pay for, and there are certain engines out there, some named specifically above in this thread that run extremely well, in my opinion, and clearly the opinion of others above this post, better than anything available in plastic. However, that can come at extreme cost. And yes, an Athearn Genesis 4-6-6-4 may run 95% or 98% as well as much more expensive brass, but I'm not quite convinced that it would be truly "better than"... So we'll keep the discussion going and I'll try not to get judgmental of anybody's comments or preferences. Thank you all. John
riogrande5761 What about that topic a while ago to argue that brass steam was the best running (over) steam engines in HO and IIRC, the topic discussed bad experiences with plastic. Has there been a change in sentiment since that topic?
What about that topic a while ago to argue that brass steam was the best running (over) steam engines in HO and IIRC, the topic discussed bad experiences with plastic. Has there been a change in sentiment since that topic?
1. I have been accused of not being objective, of being overly biased in favor of brass, so I thought we could "revisit" the question and see where it actually leads.
2. I am searching out what is worthwhile due to a change in financial status. My son needs to play travel baseball to get playing time due to local politics. That will cost me literally thousands of dollars (it's what he wants to do and he is actually good). Just yesterday a catcher from a team who mercy-ruled his JV team talked to him at a local university's baseball clinic, and was in utter disbelief, seeing my son pitch yesterday, that the jv team wouldn't pitch him, and said he should have been the starting pitcher instead of pitching mop up to get the last batter of the season out...that it would have been a far different game!
3. I do firmly believe you get what you pay for, and there are certain engines out there, some named specifically above in this thread that run extremely well, in my opinion, and clearly the opinion of others above this post, better than anything available in plastic. However, that can come at extreme cost.
And yes, an Athearn Genesis 4-6-6-4 may run 95% or 98% as well as much more expensive brass, but I'm not quite convinced that it would be truly "better than"...
So we'll keep the discussion going and I'll try not to get judgmental of anybody's comments or preferences. Thank you all.
John
A few simple points from my perspective:
ANY mass produced product will have a few duds now and then. In my view, a product as complex as an HO steam locomotive, subject to as many user variables as they are, should be judged mostly on the good reviews unless there is overwhelming negative feedback.
Why? Because there will be defective products that slip though, and there will be unreasonable user demands on the design.
Bachmann has likely made hundreds of thousands of their 2-8-0, do your hear many complaints? No.
I have lots of Bachmann locos, have I had any bad ones? Sure. Did they make it right - EVERY TIME.
Durablity - well, I'm not running a museum display or shop window display, I suspect most of these things will last long enough for my needs - and again, I'm really not concerned about what happens to them when I'm gone - they did not cost that much......I bought them to play with, I own houses as investments......
Accuracy - again, it does not matter how accurate a model is if it is not the model you want. Most want to create some "sense" of a specific place/time/theme - we have to choose from what is out there and/or build/modify it ourselves.
Most of the models talked about so far in this thread are reasonably accurate and/or can be made into more accurate models.
Have I used my skills to make some of these models run even better? Yes. That goes for EVERY brand I have.
Would I ever spend $1500 or $2000 on a single model train locomotive? No. Why? Way past my point of deminishing returns. $500/$600 is my upper limit for sure. Dollar cost average of my 135 piece loco fleet - $120
John, as for your other question/comment in an earlier post about power supplies and various brands of plastic locos. Understand this, DCC is DCC and a DCC loco will always be compromised when not on a full scale DCC system.
Many people want to strattle the fence with the MRC Tech 6, and I understand it is a good piece of equipment, but it is still a compromise - my view, go DCC or don't.
On that note, all these locos that I say run great - DISCLAIMER - none of them have decoders, sound or otherwise. They run on DC, with Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttles in pulse width mode on a max of just under 14 volts.
Some have factory lighting boards, some have homemade directonal lighting, some have lighting boards for other manufacturers. I have number of BLI locos now running with Bachmann tenders and Bachmann lighting boards.
Some locos have had their factory boards modified for better performance - read my Bachmann loco thread from years ago......
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/181314/2111178.aspx#2111178
For those who really want to this to be a plug and play hobby - I suggest Marklin. It is a closed system where everything is of the highest quality and designed to work together.
Short of that, these things will always need care, adjustment and "tweeking".
Better to do a little tweek on a $200 loco than a $2000 one......
My steam fleet is fairly humble compared to a lot of posters here. I have 11 steamers, 8 of which are runners, one is a hanger queen, and 2 are project locomotives awaiting their turn in the shop. My best runner is an old diecast Mantua Pacific. The original open frame motor was decent. A can motor conversion kit gives really good low speed performance.
Equally good runner is a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 Consolidation. I have had it since 2003, shortly after Bachmann introduced them. Its still pretty much stock.
And, nearly as good a runner, an IHC Mogul 2-6-0. The IHC is too light to be a good puller, and I didn't find any room inside to add lead, but it stays on the track and stays coupled, and is decent at slow speeds.
Rail Images, I clicked each image to full size and then copied the image link into this post.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Yes, nice pictures of those engines, but I think the rear USRA overhang is actually slightly more...on the B&O engines the front cab wall appears to be just a bit over the driver...not so for USRA...they are neat engines. My friend had an Overland EL3A and an EL5A...I once had 3 UP Bull Moose 2-8-8-0's from the same year's run. Missing them all a bit now, but some had electrical issues. That was why I sold mine. Some things I was unable to fix. Having bought mine on yearly OMI sale I was able to sell and break even!
PRR8259 Ok I understand why you lost the trailing truck and all, but to me they just look a little odd without it. Seems like a long distance without any support at all... I do agree the regular trailing truck also seems to not fit right, though, and it is your railroad.
Ok I understand why you lost the trailing truck and all, but to me they just look a little odd without it. Seems like a long distance without any support at all...
I do agree the regular trailing truck also seems to not fit right, though, and it is your railroad.
Here are a few prototypes:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7109ahn.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7127.jpg
Pretty much the same overhang, roughly the whole cab.
This is one of the SAL locos were ther B&O removed the trailing truck:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7303ggC.jpg
On these clearly the whole cab is behind the drivers.
OK, a couple of photos, not the best lighting or photographer.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL 2 Proto 2-8-8-2's that have been freelanced into 2-8-8-0's . Sheldon, How does this final product look? I have looked at the Proto 2-8-8-2 a time or two, and I always thought the trailing truck looked a little silly. I can't exactly figure out what is off about it, but it is not right to my eye. . Did you simply remove the trailing truck, or was more work involved? . -Kevin .
ATLANTIC CENTRAL 2 Proto 2-8-8-2's that have been freelanced into 2-8-8-0's
Sheldon, How does this final product look? I have looked at the Proto 2-8-8-2 a time or two, and I always thought the trailing truck looked a little silly. I can't exactly figure out what is off about it, but it is not right to my eye.
Did you simply remove the trailing truck, or was more work involved?
Kevin, I can try to get a photo up a little later. But all I did was remove the trailing truck.
While the trailing truck on the USRA/Y3 2-8-8-2 does "look funny", that is the way they were. It was not there so much to support weight but to "steer" the loco when backing up, just like a lead truck steers the loco going forward.
Some roads felt this was important, others not so much. The B&O had a large fleet of 2-8-8-0's and even took second hand 2-8-8-2's (not USRA locos) from the Seaboard Air Line and converted them to 2-8-8-0's.
So I took the same approach with my Proto 2-8-8-2's for my ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL2 Proto 2-8-8-2's that have been freelanced into 2-8-8-0's
Well, now that Dr Wayne spoke up, I will second a lot of his choices.
I have 9 Spectrum 2-8-0's, all great runners.
9 Spectrum 4-8-2 Heavy Mountains, in several variations, also very smooth and powerfull.
5 Spectrum 2-6-6-2's in various versions with various alternate tenders. Also great runners:
2 BLI/PCM Reading T-1's - great runners.
1 Spectrum B&O EM-1 - very, very nice.
2 Proto 2-8-8-2's that have been freelanced into 2-8-8-0's - these are without question one of the smoothest and quietest locos ever built
2 Proto 0-8-0's - top notch, like their big brotrher above.
5 Bachmann regular line 2-8-4's, kitbashed into freelanced heavy 2-8-2's. These needed some weight, but turned out great:
Other great runners include:
2 Spectrum 4-6-0's
2 BLI N&W Class A 2-6-6-4's
3 Spectrum USRA 2-10-2's
2 older brass USRA light 4-6-2's
and few more.
I just received my first plastic steam engine, the NP Z-8 Challenger, ran great hauled at least 25 cars with no problems and sounded good.
I also have a number of brass engines which I have used extensively, among my favorites is an old United WP 2-8-2 which after a good break in and added weight, took 3rd place for Steam Performance at the 1977 Denver NMRA Convention.
I also number among my favorites a Challenger PRR N1s 2-10-2, an Alco Models streamlined K4 4-6-2, a United Crown C&O 2-8-2 and a Samohngsa N&W Class A 2-6-6-4.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
For me, the best running steamer right out of the box is Bachmann's 2-8-0 (their first Spectrum release, I think). I have eight of them...
I also have two Bachmann Ten Wheelers (heavily modified)...
....a Bachmann USRA Light Mountain (altered somewhat and some operational issues corrected),...
a Bachmann USRA 2-6-6-2 (much modified - a nice runner but a little light in the pulling department, so I'm still working on it)....
It's been re-detailed a number of times since I got it, used, in the mid-'50s. A great runner and puller, it still has it's original open-frame motor, but is currently torn down. I'll be changing out the brass drivers for plated ones from Greenway, and may equip it with a NWSL gearbox, too.While it's unlikely that I'll buy another locomotive, the best over-all locomotives for me were the Bachmann Consolidations.
However, all of the others have had their shortcomings addressed to suit my needs, and are now just as useful and dependable in their respective roles.
Wayne
Since the question was asked of HO scale and not HO gauge, I'd argue for the Blackstone K-27. Your track needs to be a little narrower to run them, though...
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The best operating steam loco that is readily available? My choice would be the 1st run BLI Hybrid New Haven I-5 4-6-4 (QSI). The loco weighs in at 2 lbs., will run at 80mph, and will pull a 12 car passenger train up a 2.5% grade without traction tires. The 2nd run I-5 (Paragon 2) had traction tires and a smoke unit which means it weighs a little less.
The best operating steam engine I've ever seen is the brass W&R New Haven Y-3 0-8-0 (USRA). Basically a match for the LLP2K USRA 0-8-0, the W&R model is even better running. Top speed is low, but then it's a switcher. Pulling power? Plenty, especially with some more lead sheet inside. The clincher is that it is soooo smooth and silent. There is not a single hitch or bind, there is no gear noise. Easily the best I've seen or heard.
I've never had brass, so can't speak to them......... I have had a lot of plastic, with the first ones bought back in the '70s.
Back then, for the money, AHM made some pretty good values. Bachmann did as well. Today, for the limited pocketbook, Bachmann Spectrum is the best buy.
If you can afford it, then BLI is outstanding! Yes, sometimes a BLI loco has a problem "out of the box", but the company will take care of it and make it right.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
the Akane 2-6-6-6 C&O Allegenney. Would LITERALLY pull the wall paper and siding off of a house. Not great details by todays standards, but for running nothing could touch it . Ran smoothly, quietly and would creep along if you wanted it too.
The next best was the Samhongsa B&O EM1 that a friend of mine had. Smooth running quiet, wuld creep along and good pulling power.
"Plastic": The winner is the P2K/Walthers model of the N&W Y-3 2-8-8-2. As I model the Santa Fe, I felt very fortunate that the Santa Fe had a few of them on the roster in the forties.
"Brass": In general, Santa Fe brass steam locomotives produced in the last 15 years (such as class 885 2-8-2s and class 900 2-10-2s imported by Division Point, or the class 3460 Hudsons imported by Glacier Park) operate flawlessly; however, the price is accordingly. For older brass, the Samhongsa/Key class 3160 Mikados with the coasting drive are unmatched in their performance.
I have a Roundhouse 2-6-0 SF, DCC installed, runs really smooth and quiet, is a great performer even at slow speeds.
Thinking about getting a Bachmann 4-4-0 to compliment it, both of these locomotives are part of my "Steam into History" program.
In my fleet I would have to say that my P2K 2-8-4 is my best performer and it pulls a good sized consist up my 1.5% grade. My Bachmanns run reliably buy don't have the pulling power. I've got a number of BLI and most give me good performance but I've had more issues with some them than I would expect from a high end product.
You're about 3 hrs east of me (Indiana, PA)...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Wow, small world. I live less than a mile from the west end of the Rockville Bridge, in Marysville.
PRR8259 If I dont find the Proto 2000 mamma jama, I may be forced to pick up a B&O EM-1 since they ran through my father's hometown of Butler, Pa.
If I dont find the Proto 2000 mamma jama, I may be forced to pick up a B&O EM-1 since they ran through my father's hometown of Butler, Pa.
Just drove through there this evening, John, on my way back to OH. And the Butler county fair was going full steam this weekend when we passed by on SR422.
Well I was wanting to get a Rio Grande 2-6-6-2 or even an L-131 2-8-8-2, but most affordable L-131's need regeared, remotored and repainted, and most of the really good 2-6-6-2's are rare and big money. The Custom Brass one is hard to find now, and the PFM 2-6-6-0, with a decent paint job by my guy will easily exceed the cost of two mail order blowout Genesis Challengers. So even though Rio Grande did not like them, the UP version Challengers look like a relative bargain.
Yes I am aware of the Proto 2000 L-107, and the only ones on Ebay recently were poorly weathered...If anyone has an extra Proto 2000 DRGW L-107 2-8-8-2, please let me know, thanks all. It is the non-N&W version, for those less familiar with the big mamma jamas.
I only own 2 plastic steam engines, both Bachmann.
My 2-8-0 ran perfectly for about a decade, then an accident caused it to fail. Boo hoo.
My EM-1 2-8-8-4 is a dream It probably only has about 10 hours running time so far, but it has been flawless. It will even run around 19" radius curves, but it looks silly doing that.
It is currently in the paint shop, but my plan is to run it a lot.
I also have 3 Powerhouse light mikados that have always run well, but are kind of ugly compared to the rest of the roster.
In brass I have a Key Light Mountain, Sunset Heavy Mikado, Sunset Light Pacific, and Alco 0-8-0. All are USRA models and all of them run beautifully. I also have a PFM/United "logging" 2-6-2 that has an open frame motor but runs surprisingly quiet and smooth. No need for a repower on that model.
I am glad to hear about so many good running HO steamers.
Hands Down my pick is my PCM Y6b 2-8-8-2. It will take tight turns and tracks like it is on rails! Sound is great with dual speakers, slow speed is Great! Talk about pulling power? Pulled 89 coal cars by it self on K-10 Model Trains 60' X 80' layout.
I think BLI has a new verson but not under the PCM brand name.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
1st choice: Trix USRA 2-8-2 Mikado - Heavy and as smooth as glass. Glad I picked up both NYC models. I paid ~40% MSRP for each one 10 years ago and they were NIB. And they still run like a Swiss watch:
2nd choice: Proto 2000 USRA 0-8-0 switcher - Perhaps a bit light on pulling but wonderfully smooth switching at low speed.