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No Silver Bullet

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  • Member since
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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 8, 2017 9:41 AM

I am having trouble understanding why there would be a need for any abrasive at all when cleaning track.  I believe I/we are trying to remove gooey-guck (dirty track).  Which appears to be a collection of dirt and oils and "stuff" that's laying on the rail surface.  It looks to me that one just "wipes it up", with some sort of solvent if necessary.

I can see, with brass rail that's been sitting around for years, that there could be a layer of sulfides and oxides that really did need to be physically removed.  Because they are, or are supposed to be, non-conductive.  And because they DON'T come off with a paper towel.  Or solvent.  In this case, an abrasive may be in order.  On brass rail.

But for over half a century, it's been asserted that oxides/sulfides/whateverides on the surface of nickel silver don't have that problem--that they ARE conductive.  So that means there's no particular reason to remove them.  If they're there.  So there's no need to abrade the surface.

 

Ed

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Posted by bibbster on Thursday, June 8, 2017 10:40 AM

Anyone care to elaborate on how plastic wheels leave a mess on the rails? 

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  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Thursday, June 8, 2017 10:46 AM

7j43k

I am having trouble understanding why there would be a need for any abrasive at all when cleaning track.  I believe I/we are trying to remove gooey-guck (dirty track).  Which appears to be a collection of dirt and oils and "stuff" that's laying on the rail surface.  It looks to me that one just "wipes it up", with some sort of solvent if necessary.

...

 

Ed

 

Very true, and probably why Doc Wayne and so many others patiently chime in once or twice a year when this topic comes up and tell us what they use...lacquer thinner, or mineral spirits, or often just paper towel and isopropyl alcohol.  Even No-Ox seems unnecessary if the rails don't have organic impediments on their bearing surface because the oxide of N/S rails is modestly conductive.

We forget that our homes are polluted environments.  Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer.  But spring-time with its airborne pollens can be every bit as bad, or worse.  We have MDF furniture, and our baseboards and moldings are often made of MDF.  Our carpets give off volatiles as does MDF.  Foot falls, no matter how clean the floor, do lift up stuff that settles somewhere else in time.  Our bodies shed several grams of dead skin cells each day. As we lean over the layout, the motion of the textiles covering us and the air currents caused by bending fabrics and new openings distribute those cells far and wide. Spiders leave invisible silk here and there, some of it crossing both rails.  I have a photo of a BLI Niagara emerging from a tunnel sweeping job...well, that's what it became, anyway.  Eeewww!!

Anyway, to conclude, abrading the bearing surface of N/S rails, already soft as metals go, is not a good thing to do in my opinion.  Far better to do a thorough job ridding the bearing surface of organics and then doing something like the steel washer treatment.  

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 8, 2017 11:11 AM

selector
 

Spiders leave invisible silk here and there, some of it crossing both rails.  I have a photo of a BLI Niagara emerging from a tunnel sweeping job...well, that's what it became, anyway.  Eeewww!!

  

 

 

A suggestion:

 

 

perhaps led by one of these:

 

 

Ed

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Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, June 8, 2017 12:03 PM

I use a tunnel ice breaker car for the spider thing.    And what about Wahl clipper oil?   I had heard many times over just running trains often was enough

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
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  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Thursday, June 8, 2017 12:41 PM

Ed, that's a great suggestion.  I hadn't anticipated the results of the Niagara incident, but now that I know I will need to clear tunnels now and then, a Russell snow plow should do the trick. Cool 

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Thursday, June 8, 2017 1:19 PM

  Food for thought: I bought a bunch of used slot car track that was kind of dirty and rusty. I tried running my old slot cars on it which had been stored for years. At first they would only go a fraction of an inch, then I would have to push them to get them to go another fraction of an inch. Eventually I pushed them around the whole track. With each push the cars ran a little farther. Eventually they made it around a whole lap. Slowly at first, then faster and faster. Finally they got to peak performance. The track had cleaned the cars and the cars had cleaned the track.
  The friction from the pickup shoes was all that was needed. Electric trains use metal wheels for pickup which, as mentioned by someone else, roll instead of slide. The track cleaning cars which use friction such as masonite or agates do the gleaming for you. Clubs use them because they have too much track to clean by hand and they work.
  I haven’t built a track cleaning car yet so I use Dust Monkeys which I clip onto my Jordan spreaders, which is appropriate because here in the desert the dust piles up like scale size snow drifts. It is part of my regular operation to run the plows to clear the track.
  I  clean my locomotive wheels with a handy wipe soaked in rubbing alcohol which I lay across a fiddle track. (A fiddle track is a track that is usually used to add or remove locomotives or rolling stock from the layout. They don‘t have scenery elements blocking the track and have plenty of finger room for your 0-5-0 hand switcher. lol) I use a handy wipe instead of paper towels because paper leaves tiny fibers everywhere.

p.s. A bright boy as stated by someone else is good for old brass track. 

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, June 8, 2017 2:01 PM

selector
...Very true, and probably why Doc Wayne and so many others patiently chime in once or twice a year when this topic comes up and tell us what they use...lacquer thinner, or mineral spirits, or often just paper towel and isopropyl alcohol....

I only clean track after ballasting, and use a fine abrasive block meant for use on electrical contact points.    Other that that, track is cleaned every year or two using the brush attachment on my shop vac.  Other than as mentioned above, I haven't cleaned track in the conventional sense in over 25 years.  Most of my rolling stock has plastic wheels, too.
In my opinion, if there's anything approaching a silver bullet for track cleaning, it's to have your layout in a clean environment:  no carpets, no other household activities in the area, no food, or smoking, and, if possible, no windows, and no heating and cooling in the layout room.  Obviously, some of those requirements are difficult to meet, and I'm fortunate to have a well-insulated room (with a door) in my basement which meets most of those requirements.  The room, however, does need to be kept clean, but that's a lot less tedious than cleaning track.

Wayne

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, June 8, 2017 2:27 PM

selector
We forget that our homes are polluted environments. Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer.

.

Why would you ever close up your house in the Winter time? That is the only time you can turn off the air conditioner and open the windows!

.

Seriously... I am going to chime in and say I think that the manufacturer has something to do with this... nothing scientific here. I bought a lot of Kato unitrack to run trains on the floor while the hous is being remodeled, and this stuff never needs cleaning. I take it out of the box, set it up, and run trains. I have never had to clean any of it.

.

Any idea why?

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 8, 2017 2:56 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
selector
We forget that our homes are polluted environments. Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer.

 

.

Why would you ever close up your house in the Winter time? That is the only time you can turn off the air conditioner and open the windows!

.

Seriously... I am going to chime in and say I think that the manufacturer has something to do with this... nothing scientific here. I bought a lot of Kato unitrack to run trains on the floor while the hous is being remodeled, and this stuff never needs cleaning. I take it out of the box, set it up, and run trains. I have never had to clean any of it.

.

Any idea why?

.

-Kevin

.

 

 

1.  Possibly there's no oil in your locomotives to leak down onto the track.  That's the good news.

 

2.  "take it out of the box" kind of implies that the track is usually boxed up.  During that time, it's pretty unlikely to be collecting dust and junk.  Since it's boxed up.

Just a kupla thoughts.

 

Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:20 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
selector
We forget that our homes are polluted environments. Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer.

 

.

Why would you ever close up your house in the Winter time? That is the only time you can turn off the air conditioner and open the windows!

.

Seriously... I am going to chime in and say I think that the manufacturer has something to do with this... nothing scientific here. I bought a lot of Kato unitrack to run trains on the floor while the hous is being remodeled, and this stuff never needs cleaning. I take it out of the box, set it up, and run trains. I have never had to clean any of it.

.

Any idea why?

.

-Kevin

.

 

I would guess that our experiences are somewhat different since I live north of the 49th where opening windows in the winter is a recipe for hefty bills for energy.  In FL there would be lots of air pollution coming through open windows, whether anthropogenic or natural.  It would be regardless of the season since you are generally much warmer down there.  Where I have lived, we got weeks where the daytime high never rises above 0 deg F.  Open windows are the option only when you need to clear a room so that the smoke alarm stops shrieking. Geeked

I doubt you'll find any enthusiastic encouragement from anyone who has been in the hobby a while to set up a train set on a floor unless it can be put away.  We don't do that with layouts, and that was the context for the question.

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Posted by cudaken on Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:21 PM

originaldirtguy
Regardless of how convincing the snake oil salesman's pitch is, I will never try the silver bullet approach again.

 Dirty Guy, Cuda Ken here. I have not read all the post on this thred but for me ATF has worked like a charm! I have not cleaned a engine wheel on the Short Line for 4 months! Wheels of the rolling stock is still clean. My Wathers PK2000 SD 7 with sound will creep at seed step 1 thought my un-powred turns outs dragging 15 cars!

 For me, it was the silver bullet I had been hoping for!

 Lone Ranger Ken still belives in ATF

I hate Rust

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, June 10, 2017 11:25 PM

ATF is awful.  ATF is wonderful.

 

'Tis a puzzlement.

 

Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, June 11, 2017 12:37 AM

7j43k
ATF is awful.  ATF is wonderful.   'Tis a puzzlement.

LaughLaughLaughLaughThumbs Up

Just don't drink the stuff!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaughClown

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Geared Steam on Sunday, June 11, 2017 10:58 AM

hon30critter

 

 
7j43k
ATF is awful.  ATF is wonderful.   'Tis a puzzlement.

 

LaughLaughLaughLaughThumbs Up

Just don't drink the stuff!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaughClown

Dave

 

Dave

It's a silver bullet for constipation. Ick!

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

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Posted by NYBW-John on Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:18 AM

7j43k

Thing is, using the brightboy ONCE, vigorously, puts scratches in the railhead.  It really does, 'cause I've got "micro-pictures" of it.  There are people who say that the scratches "encourage" gooey-guck deposition.

However.

There are people who brightboy all the time and survive.

However.

It's very difficult to un-scratch.  So, on the chance that the scratches will be a problem, I don't own a brightboy.  No temptation.

 

 

Ed

 

I believe the part about the micro scratches on the rail heads. I have a hard time believing it encourages build up of gunk. If it is true, the damage has already been done so there's no reason not to continue. I don't do much train running during the summer months so when I start running trains again in the fall, the rails need to be cleaned. I hit all the track with the bright boy and rarely need to touch it again until the following year.

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, June 11, 2017 11:33 AM

NYBW-John

  

I believe the part about the micro scratches on the rail heads. I have a hard time believing it encourages build up of gunk.

 

I don't.  Seems to me that gunk can get squished into the holes and lodge there.

BUT.

Believing don't make it so.  Either way.  

To REALLY find out, ya gotta do an experiment.  One way is to set up a loop of track, brightboy half, run a train for "awhile" and do some scans of each of the sides.  Similar to what I did earlier.

Another version might be to set up the same loop, run the train, and wait for bad electrical contact to develop.  And see where it happens.

I'm not doing it.  Somone else can.

 

I agree that, once the rails are scratched, there's no particular reason to stop scratching them.

And I say there's no reason to START scratching them.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by 0-6-0 on Sunday, June 11, 2017 4:39 PM

Hello here is a link to what I did to my rail's.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/228565.aspx

Now I only have to clean when ballasting track or working on ground cover next to it. I just use 90% alcohol for that. If you find something that works best for you I would sick with it. You will have more fun.

Is the ATF discoloring your ballast?

Hope this helps Frank

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Posted by cudaken on Sunday, June 11, 2017 6:32 PM

0-6-0
Is the ATF discoloring your ballast?

 Frank Just a dap here and there is need, so the answer is no.

 Cuda Ken

I hate Rust

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, June 11, 2017 7:01 PM

7j43k

ATF is awful.  ATF is wonderful.

 

'Tis a puzzlement.

 

Ed

 

Got this idea today.If ATF works wouldn't 4WD transfer case fluid? Mischief

No so long ago I was ripped for saying I used a tiny drop of LaBelle 108 on my gears..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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