7j43k ATF is awful. ATF is wonderful. 'Tis a puzzlement. Ed
ATF is awful. ATF is wonderful.
'Tis a puzzlement.
Ed
Got this idea today.If ATF works wouldn't 4WD transfer case fluid?
No so long ago I was ripped for saying I used a tiny drop of LaBelle 108 on my gears..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
0-6-0Is the ATF discoloring your ballast?
Frank Just a dap here and there is need, so the answer is no.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Hello here is a link to what I did to my rail's.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/228565.aspx
Now I only have to clean when ballasting track or working on ground cover next to it. I just use 90% alcohol for that. If you find something that works best for you I would sick with it. You will have more fun.
Is the ATF discoloring your ballast?
Hope this helps Frank
NYBW-John I believe the part about the micro scratches on the rail heads. I have a hard time believing it encourages build up of gunk.
I believe the part about the micro scratches on the rail heads. I have a hard time believing it encourages build up of gunk.
I don't. Seems to me that gunk can get squished into the holes and lodge there.
BUT.
Believing don't make it so. Either way.
To REALLY find out, ya gotta do an experiment. One way is to set up a loop of track, brightboy half, run a train for "awhile" and do some scans of each of the sides. Similar to what I did earlier.
Another version might be to set up the same loop, run the train, and wait for bad electrical contact to develop. And see where it happens.
I'm not doing it. Somone else can.
I agree that, once the rails are scratched, there's no particular reason to stop scratching them.
And I say there's no reason to START scratching them.
7j43k Thing is, using the brightboy ONCE, vigorously, puts scratches in the railhead. It really does, 'cause I've got "micro-pictures" of it. There are people who say that the scratches "encourage" gooey-guck deposition. However. There are people who brightboy all the time and survive. However. It's very difficult to un-scratch. So, on the chance that the scratches will be a problem, I don't own a brightboy. No temptation. Ed
Thing is, using the brightboy ONCE, vigorously, puts scratches in the railhead. It really does, 'cause I've got "micro-pictures" of it. There are people who say that the scratches "encourage" gooey-guck deposition.
However.
There are people who brightboy all the time and survive.
It's very difficult to un-scratch. So, on the chance that the scratches will be a problem, I don't own a brightboy. No temptation.
I believe the part about the micro scratches on the rail heads. I have a hard time believing it encourages build up of gunk. If it is true, the damage has already been done so there's no reason not to continue. I don't do much train running during the summer months so when I start running trains again in the fall, the rails need to be cleaned. I hit all the track with the bright boy and rarely need to touch it again until the following year.
hon30critter 7j43k ATF is awful. ATF is wonderful. 'Tis a puzzlement. Just don't drink the stuff!! Dave
7j43k ATF is awful. ATF is wonderful. 'Tis a puzzlement.
Just don't drink the stuff!!
Dave
It's a silver bullet for constipation.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
7j43kATF is awful. ATF is wonderful. 'Tis a puzzlement.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
originaldirtguyRegardless of how convincing the snake oil salesman's pitch is, I will never try the silver bullet approach again.
Dirty Guy, Cuda Ken here. I have not read all the post on this thred but for me ATF has worked like a charm! I have not cleaned a engine wheel on the Short Line for 4 months! Wheels of the rolling stock is still clean. My Wathers PK2000 SD 7 with sound will creep at seed step 1 thought my un-powred turns outs dragging 15 cars!
For me, it was the silver bullet I had been hoping for!
Lone Ranger Ken still belives in ATF
SeeYou190 selector We forget that our homes are polluted environments. Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer. . Why would you ever close up your house in the Winter time? That is the only time you can turn off the air conditioner and open the windows! . Seriously... I am going to chime in and say I think that the manufacturer has something to do with this... nothing scientific here. I bought a lot of Kato unitrack to run trains on the floor while the hous is being remodeled, and this stuff never needs cleaning. I take it out of the box, set it up, and run trains. I have never had to clean any of it. . Any idea why? . -Kevin .
selector We forget that our homes are polluted environments. Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer.
.
Why would you ever close up your house in the Winter time? That is the only time you can turn off the air conditioner and open the windows!
Seriously... I am going to chime in and say I think that the manufacturer has something to do with this... nothing scientific here. I bought a lot of Kato unitrack to run trains on the floor while the hous is being remodeled, and this stuff never needs cleaning. I take it out of the box, set it up, and run trains. I have never had to clean any of it.
Any idea why?
-Kevin
I would guess that our experiences are somewhat different since I live north of the 49th where opening windows in the winter is a recipe for hefty bills for energy. In FL there would be lots of air pollution coming through open windows, whether anthropogenic or natural. It would be regardless of the season since you are generally much warmer down there. Where I have lived, we got weeks where the daytime high never rises above 0 deg F. Open windows are the option only when you need to clear a room so that the smoke alarm stops shrieking.
I doubt you'll find any enthusiastic encouragement from anyone who has been in the hobby a while to set up a train set on a floor unless it can be put away. We don't do that with layouts, and that was the context for the question.
1. Possibly there's no oil in your locomotives to leak down onto the track. That's the good news.
2. "take it out of the box" kind of implies that the track is usually boxed up. During that time, it's pretty unlikely to be collecting dust and junk. Since it's boxed up.
Just a kupla thoughts.
selectorWe forget that our homes are polluted environments. Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer.
Living the dream.
selector...Very true, and probably why Doc Wayne and so many others patiently chime in once or twice a year when this topic comes up and tell us what they use...lacquer thinner, or mineral spirits, or often just paper towel and isopropyl alcohol....
I only clean track after ballasting, and use a fine abrasive block meant for use on electrical contact points. Other that that, track is cleaned every year or two using the brush attachment on my shop vac. Other than as mentioned above, I haven't cleaned track in the conventional sense in over 25 years. Most of my rolling stock has plastic wheels, too.In my opinion, if there's anything approaching a silver bullet for track cleaning, it's to have your layout in a clean environment: no carpets, no other household activities in the area, no food, or smoking, and, if possible, no windows, and no heating and cooling in the layout room. Obviously, some of those requirements are difficult to meet, and I'm fortunate to have a well-insulated room (with a door) in my basement which meets most of those requirements. The room, however, does need to be kept clean, but that's a lot less tedious than cleaning track.
Wayne
Food for thought: I bought a bunch of used slot car track that was kind of dirty and rusty. I tried running my old slot cars on it which had been stored for years. At first they would only go a fraction of an inch, then I would have to push them to get them to go another fraction of an inch. Eventually I pushed them around the whole track. With each push the cars ran a little farther. Eventually they made it around a whole lap. Slowly at first, then faster and faster. Finally they got to peak performance. The track had cleaned the cars and the cars had cleaned the track. The friction from the pickup shoes was all that was needed. Electric trains use metal wheels for pickup which, as mentioned by someone else, roll instead of slide. The track cleaning cars which use friction such as masonite or agates do the gleaming for you. Clubs use them because they have too much track to clean by hand and they work. I haven’t built a track cleaning car yet so I use Dust Monkeys which I clip onto my Jordan spreaders, which is appropriate because here in the desert the dust piles up like scale size snow drifts. It is part of my regular operation to run the plows to clear the track. I clean my locomotive wheels with a handy wipe soaked in rubbing alcohol which I lay across a fiddle track. (A fiddle track is a track that is usually used to add or remove locomotives or rolling stock from the layout. They don‘t have scenery elements blocking the track and have plenty of finger room for your 0-5-0 hand switcher. lol) I use a handy wipe instead of paper towels because paper leaves tiny fibers everywhere.
p.s. A bright boy as stated by someone else is good for old brass track.
Ed, that's a great suggestion. I hadn't anticipated the results of the Niagara incident, but now that I know I will need to clear tunnels now and then, a Russell snow plow should do the trick.
I use a tunnel ice breaker car for the spider thing. And what about Wahl clipper oil? I had heard many times over just running trains often was enough
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
selector Spiders leave invisible silk here and there, some of it crossing both rails. I have a photo of a BLI Niagara emerging from a tunnel sweeping job...well, that's what it became, anyway. Eeewww!!
Spiders leave invisible silk here and there, some of it crossing both rails. I have a photo of a BLI Niagara emerging from a tunnel sweeping job...well, that's what it became, anyway. Eeewww!!
A suggestion:
perhaps led by one of these:
7j43k I am having trouble understanding why there would be a need for any abrasive at all when cleaning track. I believe I/we are trying to remove gooey-guck (dirty track). Which appears to be a collection of dirt and oils and "stuff" that's laying on the rail surface. It looks to me that one just "wipes it up", with some sort of solvent if necessary. ... Ed
I am having trouble understanding why there would be a need for any abrasive at all when cleaning track. I believe I/we are trying to remove gooey-guck (dirty track). Which appears to be a collection of dirt and oils and "stuff" that's laying on the rail surface. It looks to me that one just "wipes it up", with some sort of solvent if necessary.
...
Very true, and probably why Doc Wayne and so many others patiently chime in once or twice a year when this topic comes up and tell us what they use...lacquer thinner, or mineral spirits, or often just paper towel and isopropyl alcohol. Even No-Ox seems unnecessary if the rails don't have organic impediments on their bearing surface because the oxide of N/S rails is modestly conductive.
We forget that our homes are polluted environments. Especially in winter when they are closed up and air exchange is poorer. But spring-time with its airborne pollens can be every bit as bad, or worse. We have MDF furniture, and our baseboards and moldings are often made of MDF. Our carpets give off volatiles as does MDF. Foot falls, no matter how clean the floor, do lift up stuff that settles somewhere else in time. Our bodies shed several grams of dead skin cells each day. As we lean over the layout, the motion of the textiles covering us and the air currents caused by bending fabrics and new openings distribute those cells far and wide. Spiders leave invisible silk here and there, some of it crossing both rails. I have a photo of a BLI Niagara emerging from a tunnel sweeping job...well, that's what it became, anyway. Eeewww!!
Anyway, to conclude, abrading the bearing surface of N/S rails, already soft as metals go, is not a good thing to do in my opinion. Far better to do a thorough job ridding the bearing surface of organics and then doing something like the steel washer treatment.
Anyone care to elaborate on how plastic wheels leave a mess on the rails?
I can see, with brass rail that's been sitting around for years, that there could be a layer of sulfides and oxides that really did need to be physically removed. Because they are, or are supposed to be, non-conductive. And because they DON'T come off with a paper towel. Or solvent. In this case, an abrasive may be in order. On brass rail.
But for over half a century, it's been asserted that oxides/sulfides/whateverides on the surface of nickel silver don't have that problem--that they ARE conductive. So that means there's no particular reason to remove them. If they're there. So there's no need to abrade the surface.
BRAKIE Guys,When you clean track with a Bright Boy you only need to use very light pressure. I'm not quite convince on using sandpaper however,I will look into the Pink Pearl eraser since I'm sure that will be chaper then the going prices for Bright Boys...
Guys,When you clean track with a Bright Boy you only need to use very light pressure.
I'm not quite convince on using sandpaper however,I will look into the Pink Pearl eraser since I'm sure that will be chaper then the going prices for Bright Boys...
Hey Larry
3000 grit sandpaper does not feel like sandpaper. And grits can go up to 6000 or 7000.
I use the pink pearl eraser as a cushioned flat sanding block backer to hold the sandpaper, but I have also used it alone as the cleaning medium. I used to have a gray ink eraser (from the old typewriter days), but that is long gone. It was a bit more abrasive than the pink pearl.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Here are Ed's pics:
I will add that if Ace Hardware doesn't have it in your town, most auto supply places, like Autozone have 1000-3000 grit sandpaper.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I'll add another two words to the discussion: 1200 grit sandpaper. I have about 100 sheets on hand, each 6"x9". Cost: zero dollars. Former ex-girlfriend's father worked for an abrasives company. 2000 grit and 3000 grit are also available. Jewelers use this stuff.
Wrap a small piece around a pink pearl eraser and use like a bright boy. No doubt it scratches the surface, but the scratches have to be very small. Maybe someone can do a scientific microscopic study.
Here's a photo alongside some normal 500 grit. Not too exciting, but still . . .
7j43kHowever. I can assure you that your railtops have scratches in them. Ed
And a few dings no doubt..I use spikes and have a oops some times with tmy 6" needlenose pliers..
Check your pm.
7j43kIf you PM me your email address, I'd be happy to send you my findings with pictures.
You send me the pics and I will post them in this thread for you. pm sent
I can only say that logic says any sort of liquid or coatign that leaves ANY sort of residue behind can only EVER be a short term fix - dust sticks better to a wet ot tacky surface than it does to dry metal.
My silver bullet? Keep the train room clean and with no more dust and dirt than in any living area of your house. No smoking, both tobacco products and smoke units in steam locos. Metal wheels on all cars, nothing rolls on my layout on plastic wheels, EVER. ANd while I don;t bother with this whole gleaming thing, eith the polish and all, I DO use a hardened metal tool to burnish the railheads when I lay the track. The burnishing closes up small pores that collect dirt. I NEVR use an abrasive anything to clean the rails off, this just results in microscopc scratches (or visible if you sue something coarse enough) that simply, you guessed it, gather dirt. I can;t tell you the last time I 'cleaned' track, other than to wipe off paint that got on the railhead while I was painting the sides. I don't own any of those fancy track cleaner cars, either.
ANd - I run trains, a lot. My construction progress is very slow because as soon as I have enough track in place to run trains - I spend as much time runnign trains as I do adding to the layout. Once there is a continous run - I have a train constantly going while working, even if it's sitting at my workbench building a kit. Since I use caulk to fasten track and roadbed, there is no pounding ont he table as with driving in nails, so I can lay track without disturbing equipment already on the rails.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I know somebody who has been running his railroad for over 40 years with virtually flawless performance and rarely cleans either track or wheels. Some of his track is even brass.His secret? He runs multiple evening-long operations sessions PER WEEK, plus runs trains between sessions.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
BRAKIE 7j43k Thing is, using the bright boy ONCE, vigorously, puts scratches in the railhead. It really does, 'cause I've got "micro-pictures" of it. There are people who say that the scratches "encourage" gooey-guck deposition. Ed,A myth based on a guy writing article in MR and he had to use a microscope to see the so called scratches that may have been there from the start since he didn't mention before/after the use of a bright boy. As far as we know those scratches may have been from production. I've used a bright boy for 60 years with no issues and the last time I clean track before ripping up my ISL around six weeks ago was last November.
7j43k Thing is, using the bright boy ONCE, vigorously, puts scratches in the railhead. It really does, 'cause I've got "micro-pictures" of it. There are people who say that the scratches "encourage" gooey-guck deposition.
Ed,A myth based on a guy writing article in MR and he had to use a microscope to see the so called scratches that may have been there from the start since he didn't mention before/after the use of a bright boy.
As far as we know those scratches may have been from production.
I've used a bright boy for 60 years with no issues and the last time I clean track before ripping up my ISL around six weeks ago was last November.
Brakie,
I checked out that myth (Hey, I'm a mythbuster!). I scanned the surface of fresh rail, and I scanned the surface of brightboyed rail. There were no scratches on the former and plenty on the latter. I didn't need a microscope, though I agree I couldn't see them with my nekkid eye, neither. But then I have to use an Optivisor for modeling.
If you PM me your email address, I'd be happy to send you my findings with pictures.
I do agree that I can't prove brightboying causes track to be dirtier because of the scratches. Neither can you (or I) prove that using a brightboy DOESN'T cause a problem. BUT. If I can avoid scratching the rail, there seems to be no downside and a potential upside. So, for me, the choice is obvious.
However. I can assure you that your railtops have scratches in them.