I got some supposedly HO scale oxy-acetylene welding sets from Shapeways but they seem awfully small to me. The oxygen tanks measure out to be three scale feet tall not including the valve at the top. IIRC, full sized oxygen tanks are much taller than that.
The reason I'm asking is because I have asked Shapeways to honour their money back guarantee and I want to be able to quote facts instead of guessing.
So, how tall are full sized oxygen tanks?
Please understand that I'm not looking for guesses or estimates. I have already done that myself. What I would really like is for someone who has access to the real thing to throw a tape measure on one and tell me what the actual size is.
Thanks,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave,
Just walked out to my "Tractor Barn" and measured 59½" to the top of the valve wheel. That's a standard 300 cu. ft. "T" cylinder. Diameter is just a bit over 9". Acetylene is 36" to top of stem and slightly larger diameter.
Hope that gets you what you need!
Have Fun, Ed
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
As the bear says, it varies. If its a small job, you dont want to grab a full size bottle for it, when a smaller one will do. Also dont lay the acetylene bottles on their side, ever.
My Oxygen & Acetylene tanks are both the same size..59/1/2//60''. They are mine, I have them filled, not exchanged. Must have them certified/checked every yr. and have a tag on them, before anyone will fill them and also must have the steel cap that is screwed on over the top to protect the valve. They will not fill them without inspection tag or cap. Also empty and filled, I transport them in My pick-up laying down separated by 4 X 4's with steel cap on......no way can they move.
There are also small portable tanks and 3/4 tanks of which I think You have, around 48'' tall.
Tank sizes:
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/filedata/fetch?id=503067
Take Care!
Frank
OK! Thanks guys for giving me the true facts. I had no idea that there could be so many different sizes.
However, what I'm hearing is that if you have a 'full sized' oxygen tank it is going to be somewhere around five ft. tall, not three feet. I think it is safe to say that the Shapeways models are clearly not full sized tanks. If they decline my request for a refund then so be it. Hopefully the 1/64th welding sets won't be too oversized to do the job.
I will wait to see how this all turns out, but if they decline my request for a refund I will be hard pressed to order from them again, that is until they decide to provide more facts with their offerings.
I'm feeling like a real whiner right now. I had high hopes for the Shapeways products.
Best wishes all!
I think mine are the half size. Oxy tank is 35" to the top of valve, and 6" dia., and acty is 30" to the top of the valve, and 7" dia.
Just another variation for you. I don't think you'll find a set as small as mine in a round house setting.
By the way, I think your round house project is amazing! Excellent work!
Mike.
My You Tube
Hey Mike:
Thanks for the kind words! I'm spending my time working on layout structures and bits for various scenes until my yard dries up and I can move a bunch of crap (is that word OK Steven?) out of my layout space in the garage and into out new shed. I wanted to install a walkway to the shed but the pavers that we used in the rest of the backyard are discontinued so I haven't made a decision on how to proceed re the walkway. That means that for now we are walking across the grass which of course doesn't work in the spring.
Thanks for your comments!
unless Shapeways categorically stated that they were selling you a “full sized” oxy/acetylene welding set, then I’m afraid you won’t get your money back.
The worst they can say is 'NO'. Everything else is money!
Best wishes Bear!
https://arlweb.msha.gov/alerts/hazardsofacetylene.htm
"PROTECT ALL CYLINDERS FROM FALLING OBJECTS. AVOID ROUGH HANDLING, DROPPING, OR KNOCKING OF CYLINDERS TO PREVENT DAMAGING THE CYLINDER, FUSIBLE PLUGS, RELIEF DEVICES, CYLINDER VALVES OR GAUGES. STORING ACETYLENE CYLINDERS ON THEIR SIDE MAKES THE ACETYLENE LESS STABLE AND LESS SAFE, AND INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD OF SOLVENT LOSS AND RESULTANT DECOMPOSITION. ACETYLENE CYLINDERS SHOULD BE STORED AND USED IN THE UPRIGHT POSITION AND FIRMLY SECURED TO PREVENT FALLING OR BEING KNOCKED OVER."
BMMECNYC https://arlweb.msha.gov/alerts/hazardsofacetylene.htm "PROTECT ALL CYLINDERS FROM FALLING OBJECTS. AVOID ROUGH HANDLING, DROPPING, OR KNOCKING OF CYLINDERS TO PREVENT DAMAGING THE CYLINDER, FUSIBLE PLUGS, RELIEF DEVICES, CYLINDER VALVES OR GAUGES. STORING ACETYLENE CYLINDERS ON THEIR SIDE MAKES THE ACETYLENE LESS STABLE AND LESS SAFE, AND INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD OF SOLVENT LOSS AND RESULTANT DECOMPOSITION. ACETYLENE CYLINDERS SHOULD BE STORED AND USED IN THE UPRIGHT POSITION AND FIRMLY SECURED TO PREVENT FALLING OR BEING KNOCKED OVER."
Sorry about the all caps. I didnt feel like re-typing. MSHA felt it was important enough to all caps.
mbinsewiJust another variation for you. I don't think you'll find a set as small as mine in a round house setting.
They might have a piped system that travels to different locations in the roundhouse. They also might not due to the implications of one of the pipes getting hit by something.
BMMECNYCThey might have a piped system that travels to different locations in the roundhouse.
I think that having several welding sets distributed throught the roundhouse would make for much more 'entertaining' scenes. From a practical point of view that would reduce the number of hoses running everywhere which would logically reduce the number of potential accidents. Severing a live oxy-acetylene line could get pretty exciting if there was a spark!
hon30critterSevering a live oxy-acetylene line could get pretty exciting if there was a spark!
MHSA talks about that at the bottom, the LFL is 2.5%, and explosive decompression can happen at 100%. It also states that static sparks caused by walking on carpet are 1700 times what is needed to ignite...
hon30critterI think that having several welding sets distributed throught the roundhouse would make for much more 'entertaining' scenes....
You're right, Dave, the tanks on wheeled dollies would be more interesting than permanent stations, especially in a roundhouse setting.In one of the mills where I worked, the process there involved slitting slabs and scarfing defects out of them. The slitting stations had pipes coming out of the ground, with the valves and regulators to which the hoses were connect. Around this area were protective posts made of very sturdy structural steel and that was mostly clad with plate steel. This was mainly to protect the area if a slab were dropped nearby.The torches there used oxygen with natural gas, with pressures around 120/130psi. Interesting to see when everything was running (although some days you couldn't see much for the yellow/green haze created when some grades of steel were being scarfed). A set-up with hose stations wouldn't be very interesting in a roundhouse scene unless you could animate it....not that I'm trying to plant a seed here....
Wayne
BMMECNYC BMMECNYC https://arlweb.msha.gov/alerts/hazardsofacetylene.htm "PROTECT ALL CYLINDERS FROM FALLING OBJECTS. AVOID ROUGH HANDLING, DROPPING, OR KNOCKING OF CYLINDERS TO PREVENT DAMAGING THE CYLINDER, FUSIBLE PLUGS, RELIEF DEVICES, CYLINDER VALVES OR GAUGES. STORING ACETYLENE CYLINDERS ON THEIR SIDE MAKES THE ACETYLENE LESS STABLE AND LESS SAFE, AND INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD OF SOLVENT LOSS AND RESULTANT DECOMPOSITION. ACETYLENE CYLINDERS SHOULD BE STORED AND USED IN THE UPRIGHT POSITION AND FIRMLY SECURED TO PREVENT FALLING OR BEING KNOCKED OVER." Sorry about the all caps. I didnt feel like re-typing. MSHA felt it was important enough to all caps.
Just to let You know where I have My tanks filled is 3 miles from My house....for that distance problem's are minimal. Also part of the testing/certification of a welding tank includes laying down, with steel cap protecting the valve. Starting welding in 1960, also worked for a truck line that transported oxygen & acetylene tanks full/empty.....also I was Hazmat certified for every type there is....also was a certified handler of US Army Nuclear ordinance for 8''/175mm rounds in US/Vietnam 66' to 68', although they were not used in Vietnam when I was there in 67'. Many rules and Hazardous warnings are designed/worded for use in large quantities, put in perspective common sense is needed when using and handling...which seem's to be lacking in a lot of situations. A Hazmat warning on small quantities of paint/lacquer thinner has people worried that they will die and their house will explode if they use it.
Mel,
I had that kit, used a lot of it in a Suydam Diesel house kit...but I never cast My own. Yours looks great! I also use a similar lighting arrangement as You with incandesant blubs. Looks so much better then having wires hanging everywhere.
zstripeMany rules and Hazardous warnings are designed/worded for use in large quantities, put in perspective common sense is needed when using and handling...which seem's to be lacking in a lot of situations.
Frank,
I work in a Nuclear Power Plant, were that doesnt exist in any form. I got yelled at for laying an Acetylene bottle on its side to transport it in a truck.
Andrew
I have and still do use a lot of SS Ltd. castings...cleaning them takes extreme patience, but worth the effort in My Opinion. Roll top desk can in comparison to the barber chair can be a breeze to build.....as I found out. Just holding the arms for filing, You can bend or distort them very easily. I used those for the captains chairs in the Tug I built.
Maybe it is a little late to help your quest, Dave, but Tichy makes 3 sizes of gas cylinders.
Besides the cart you would want a "corral" where full and empty cylinders were kept chained up, possibly on an outside wall of the roundhouse with a "lean-to" roof over them. A sign on the wall saying, Full: Empty: Keep Cylinders Chained: etc.
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop.aspx?SearchValue=cylinder
I bought a bunch of cylinder banks from Herpa many years ago. I used to fill banks like these back in the day at GE.
https://www.walthers.com/gas-cylinders-on-pallets
I believe Funero and Carmelingo has resin cylinders, too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LMH-Funaro-F-C-607-Detail-Parts-GAS-CYLINDERS-Oxygen-Oxy-Acetylene-Tank-24-Pcs-/310734253194
as does S.S. Ltd.
http://scale-structures.com/ss2300
http://scale-structures.com/ss2412
I'll get a photo of the Herpa ones posted soon. I have lots of them! I'd be glad to send some your way...
Lookin' Good Ed
A common sized oxygen tank is 60" tall and about 10" in diameter. A common acetelyne tank is 45" tall and about 12" in diameter. That is "modern", since I have been working since 1985. These would be the sizes typically found in a shop on two wheeled dollies with wheel about 10" in diameter. There are much larger tanks I see in shops a little taller and probably 50% larger in diameter that go on carts with wheel about 24" in diameter. When I had a service truck my portable tanks were about 24" tall. Current safety rules in our shops state only ONE set of bottles can be a a cart anywhere in the shop. All other oxygen and acetylene bottles must be strored vertically in racks and chained to the wall. Oxygen and acetelyne tanks are kept at least 50 feet away from each other except for the two mounted to te cart.
.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Hi everyone!
Thanks for all the input.
Wayne:
I kind of understand what you mean by 'scarfing' but I'm thinking that sort of process would be more appropriate in a large maching shop. Mine won't be that large. I do want to model the welding sets with tanks instead of just gas pipes because the sets will be more recognizable to most viewers.
Mel:
The Scale Structures roundhouse kit is what I based some of my scratch built stuff on. The price is nuts now - $124.99 at Walthers!! I have ordered a number of individual items from Scale Structures but they soon add up!
I really like the way you wired your roundhouse lights. I was planning on running wires along each side of the interior beams but your idea is so much simpler.
Ed:
I ordered a bunch of the Tichy tanks but I got the small ones by mistake. They are only 3' tall. I can get away with using them in banks by extending the bottoms of the front row of tanks.
Kevin:
Thanks for the dimensions and rules. The 60" height proves my concerns over the Shapeway model's accuracy. They didn't specify that they were selling mini torches.
I'm going to play a bit loose with the rules because I am building a nine stall roundhouse. Having just one torch set would be a bit anemic. Besides, it will be set in the 50s so I suspect the rules weren't quite so tight back then.
I got a response from Shapeways. They asked me to send a picture of the supposedly HO scale welding set next to a scale ruler so I have done that.
Cheers all!!
I just got a response from Christel at Shapeways. She has given me a store credit for the HO welding sets. I have my eyes on a wheel lathe.
hon30critterI have my eyes on a wheel lathe.
Did somebody say "Wheel Lathe??"
I did a wheel shop a few years ago and cobbled together something of a wheel lathe out of Walthers SceneMaster gear loads and other parts I had on hand.
You can see that I wasn't too concerned with how the walls looked, however, under normal viewing you can't easily see the walls...
OSHA would love all that un-guarded machinery!
I'm going to post more photos in a little while, the WWW is acting goofy today and I lost about 45 minutes of typing because the "site CS.trains could not be found"
Be back later... Ed
[edit] Glad Shapeways is giving you a credit, Dave They have treated me well, too.
That whole scene looks great Ed! Very convincing!
I have built a wheel shop based on the one at the East Broad Top RR but it's too small to accommodate something as large as your machine. The windows are also rather small and it will sit towards the back of the service area so I don't plan on putting a lot of detail into the interior.
I think I'll put the wheel lathe in the maching shop where it can be seen better.
Ed, that looks incredible! Between you and Dave, all I can say is WOW at your modeling.
I thought when I bought my Optivisor, those skills came with it? Maybe I'm using the wrong lense.
And the net, or this site, is acting strange today. I replied to a question in Electronics about 2 hours ago, and it has totally vanished.
When I worked construction, the water pipes were still copper. The plumbers had small ~12" high oxy-acetylene sets that were carried to each job.