I need a camera that will perform the following:
"a camera capable of capturing large-format digital images with good depth of field"
The camera will have to be fairly simple to operate I know very little about cameras. Need the camera for taking pictures of RR stuff.
Thanks in advance for your replies
YGW
Look for ones that allow you to set the aperture or shutter speed. They may be more expensive, but they let you maximize depth of field. (Smaller aperture = better depth of field; if it's auto-exposure, slower shutter = smaller aperture.) Generally the brighter lighting you use, the better your depth of field will be, because the auto-exposure will stop down the aperture. Unless it's one of those modern all-solid-state cameras, like those in cell phones these days, where there is no aperture.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
YGW - Models, real Railroads, or both?
If its real RR, a slightly different recommendation then model strictly...
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Perhaps some more clarity:
Are you talking about doing real railroad photography or model railroad photography?
Are there limits to how much you can spend?
Ed
You want a digital camera, mostly because electrons are free. Film camera's cost a dollar a shot or more. You have a choice between low cost a point-n-shoot and a high cost digital single lens reflex (DSLR). A point-n-shoot gives you one lens, a decent range of zoom. Mine has plenty of pixels at least 1280 by 800. A DSLR gives you interchangable lens, more pixels, a bigger and heavy camera and a lot more money. My Canon point-n-shoot focuses down close and takes good pictures of my models.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
What does 'large-format' mean? Full frame, APS-C,...? Those'll cost ya. Yuuge!
Any modern point-and-shoot in the $200 ballpark that allows you to control some manual settings, and that has about 7 mp is going to allow you to generate large prints, and on large monitors will look wonderful...assuming correct colour balance, focus, etc. The better ones, often with up to about 18 X zoom and 1" sensor, fixed lens, run all the way up to $1300 these days, well into DSLR territory...except you won't need to carry a bag of lenses.
CANON, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, they all make really good and versatile cameras that won't break your bank. Manual controls, maybe up to 15 X zoom, near 12 mp, shouldn't cost you more than about $300, and you'll almost be able to put them in a shirt pocket. Great versatility, easy to set up right in your railroad scene (if you mean a model layout).
No wait, you said digital.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
The p&s Sony that my friend has is absolutely amazing. It also costs more than some of the Canon and Nikon DSLRs, but it has many manual settings as well as full automatic operation and has a very large sensor. Unfortunately I don't recall the exact model. Optics in it are Zeiss, as most all Sony cameras.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
dstarrYou have a choice between low cost a point-n-shoot and a high cost digital single lens reflex (DSLR).
There is also a 3rd choice, usually referred to as "mirrorless" or "compact system" cameras. They have interchangable lenses like a DSLR but don't have a through the lens viewfinder. They rely on an electronic viewfinder and/or a display on the back. These are as capable as all but the higest-end of DSLR's at an average price point between point-n-shoot and DSLR's. They are also smaller and lighter than DSLR's.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
dstarrMine has plenty of pixels at least 1280 by 800.
1280 by 800 is only one megapixel. This is not even close to sufficient. I don't think you can even buy a smartphone, let alone a camera with a resolution of less than 4 magapixels. Most camears are at least 16MP. Lots of megapixels can be overrated, but that doesn't come into play until you get to 20+ and you can get 20 on a point-n-shoot for less than $100.
YGW, There are some good pointers here:
https://www.x2011west.org/handouts/JS-Photo-RR-Models-X2011.pdf
https://www.nasg.org/documents/ModelRailroadersGuideToPhotography.pdf
...and from one of our members on this forum, Bob Boudreau: (maybe look at this one first)
https://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
After you digest some of this information you will be better equipped to make the choices for what you want in a camera.
Keep in mind to get the best depth of field you are going to use l o n g exposure times. Sometimes my shutter is open for three minutes or more at f. 32! So a sturdy tripod or other fixture is necessary, too.
Some of the better "stacking" functions of the editing software such as Helicon will help but if you can start with the best image possible, all the better. Scroll through the examples below:
http://www.heliconsoft.com/heliconsoft-products/helicon-focus/
I get by with Adobe Photoshop, but Lightroom might be in my future...
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopfamily.html
It's not just all camera work, either. Sometimes setting up the lighting the way I want it can take considerably more time than the actual shooting of the photos.
Good Luck, Ed
The Sony one I mentioned that my friend has is one of the RX100 series.
Boiler-manA smart phone with an optional after market set of lenses will work almost as well as the high priced professional cameras.
Maybe, especially if he needs a new phone and doesn't mind the outlay for one with interchangeable lenses. Otherwise, depth of field will be a distinct problem unless he lays down some serious photon density on the scene. Even then, colour balance could affect the resulting image. He will have to deal with that in PP.
If you want to use an iPhone, check Amazon for lenses.
I bought a set for my iPhone.
Amazon reviews for different cameras might help as well as searching the Internet. You can compare reviews as there will be many.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Hey, OP.
It would be helpful if you were to respond to some of our questions and comments.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
It is all about LIGHT. The bigger the lens, the more light you get into the camera. But that means a biiger lens in relation to the back plane where are the sensors. A smart phone or a tablet has a very small distance between the lens and the back plane, ergo the back plane is very small, but then so is the lens.
A camera with a large back plane can get far more details in the real estate that it has back there. But it also needs a much bigger lens. A camera my look like it has a big lens, but that my be fooling you for under the glas it really has a smaller lens.
If you have questions go to a local camera store. They will likely let you try several models, and can explain this stuff far better than I can. Of course if you take up their time, you really should buy from them too.
Of course if you know what you are all ablut (and you are not, since you asked), then a discount online concern will get you a far better price on the same product.
Get you first camera at a local store where the people there can help you with your questions. The big houses are for the experts, and frequently handle grey-market products (privately imported from Japan or China and have no USA warranty).
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Local cameral stores are about like local train stores. There are only 2 left in Baltimore, in my county, the leading google hits are Giant Food, Best Buy and HH Gregg.
Thanks everyone for the feed back. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on your questions. I have a legit excuse. We celebrated MOH 60th birthday this weekend with lots of people attending. I was VERY busy making arrangments, fielding calls etc...and then tehre was the clean up...
To answer some of the questions:
This will strictly be for MRR. Not the real thing at least for now
I prefer digital
I would like to keep the camera in the $500 plus or minus range
For my use I cannot use a phone camera
I will want a camera that I can set up with a tripod.
Again thank you for your responses and feed back. I am very thankful you took your time to helop me out. I appreciate any further info.
For full reccomendation, without the lengthy explanation of why, scroll down to bold italicized underlined text. (All at once, like this...)
Then read the rest for the explanation of why that is my reccomendation....
For the price range, and features, a starter DSLR set will cover your current needs, and be quick enough to (eventually) cover the real RR photography as well. (Most camera's will have a tripod option.)
It would offer full aperture control, to maximize depth of field, while still giving a simple automatic focusing option, much like a traditional point and shoot. When aperture control is not 100% needed, fully automatic, just like a point and shoot, shutter speed priority, to allow setting of shutter speed, for time-lapse shots, or for fast snaps of action without blur, and all as simple, or complicated, as you need. All DSLR's I have ever seen have a tripod mount. Starter sets @B&HPhoto start @399.99 and go up (way up!) from there.
Canon and Nikkon are the top two brands in DSLR, and offer the most additional options later on.
If you go with a DSLR, Canon offers clearer glass (lenses) than Nikkon. (Let the flame war start now....)
Once you get used to the slightly diffeerent controls as compared to a standard point and shoot, it will be second nature to pull out the camera, power it on, compose and snap the photo.
A mirror-less camera will offer most of the features of a DSLR, with a lighter weight than a traditional DSLR. This would also be a good choice based on depth of field needs, and your potential future needs, should they change. Starter sets for these can easily be under the $500 price range. Again, most are tripod capable.
Canon, Nikkon, and Sony all make excellent mirror-less models.
If a point and shoot is more up your alley, for small size, and light weight, a top end point and shoot, for close to, or under, the same price as the starter DSLR, and will offer a tripod mount. It will work for your current needs, of providing a good depth of field, but may not fit future needs, if they change.
Canon, Sony, and Nikkon all offer good point and shoot camera's that would fit this.
Note: Point and shoots are not designed for "action shots" with lots of, or quick, movement. If still objects are your intended subjects, it will work just fine. If moving objects (both model and/or real trains) are you goal, you may not get satisfactory results with a point and shoot. (It will catch some, but not all action shots, unless you are looking for blur... for "artistic purposes".)
Also, DSLR's are built tougher than most point and shoot camera's are. Simple fact of the way they are manufactured, point and shoots are designed with a much lower shutter actuation count than DSLR's are designed to withstand.
(Were it me, my needs, slightly different than yours, all considered, a DSLR.)
For you? Well, I can't answer for sure.
Without knowing full needs, and full feelings on the issue,
I cannot in good faith reccommend one brand or model over another.
Keep scrolling down for a further reccomendation..... As this is not italicized.....
DSLR camera's, and mirror-less camera's, have a slightly bigger learning curve than a point and shoot.
But, these camera's (DSLR's and mirror-less) can do more than most point and shoots.
Point and shoots are smaller and lighter. Most are also cheaper than the other options.
My full reccomendation: Head to your nearest Best Buy, HH Gregg, etc... and take a look at different models, from point and shoots up to DSLR's, hold, test, examine each. Ask a few questions, then, armed with the information you have been given, make a decision based on it.
Why do I say this?
With the information you have been given, a short testing session, and your personal tastes, needs, and wants, you can make a better decision on a proper camera purchase than I can reccommend from here.
But, DO Get a quality, mid to heavy weight tripod. (These you get what you pay for. You pay cheap, you get cheap.)
Best I can do, from here, is help guide with information.
(NOTE: At least when I did the sales training they were that way.... Couple years ago now, but, unless they made a drastic change....)
These are simply the opinions of a amateur photog (and former trained salesman), and are not meant as any endorsement of any particular model, brand, or type.
Nor are they meant to start said flame war over brands.... However, once it has been posted.....
ricktrains4824 YGW But, DO Get a quality, mid to heavy weight tripod. (These you get what you pay for. You pay cheap, you get cheap.)
ricktrains4824Canon, Nikkon, and Sony all make excellent mirror-less models.
ricktrains4824Canon, Sony, and Nikkon all offer good point and shoot camera's that would fit this.
While Nikon (only one k) and Canon do indeed lead the DSLR market, I believe their cameras in these two classes are not at all exceptional. Fujifilm, Panasonic Lumix, and Sony are at the top of the lists at least as often as Canon or Nikon - especially in the $500 and under class.
Check out the websites that do reviews of digital cameras.
The OP asked for camera recommendations and there has been plenty of good advice. But there's another option. Software.
Depth-of-field is a big issue photographing our hobby. Small aperture, slow shutter, and lots of photons only get you so much.
There's a software program called HeliconFocus or something like that. You mount the camera on a tripod and take several exposures, each with a different focus distance; near, mid, and far. The software analyzes the images and composites them onto a single image.
I haven't used it, I don't think the cost is ridiculous, and I think it might work. High tech stuff, you know. Digital.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Well, I can't offer comparisons. But I will say I have had my Canon T3i for a few years now and it does everything I want it to do. It's also easy to use as a point and shoot camera. I think they're up to T6i now.
Paul
yougottawanta....To answer some of the questions: This will strictly be for MRR. Not the real thing at least for now I prefer digital I would like to keep the camera in the $500 plus or minus range For my use I cannot use a phone camera I will want a camera that I can set up with a tripod....
Unless you're planning to take photos for magazine publication, you don't need to spend that much money to get a camera that will take pictures acceptable for on-line viewing.I started with my daughter's old point-and-shoot 2mp Kodak, and most of my photos were taken either with that or a 4mp Kodak p&s which I bought, used, for $25.00. The former camera had very few variable settings, while the latter one offers enough that I wouldn't waste money on anything more complicated.I was given a somewhat more sophisticated digital camera suited more specifically to model railroad-type photos, but its complexity makes it more of a nuisance to use. If I wanted to submit photos to MR, it would do the job, but I'd need to re-read the user's manual.Too many people buy much more camera than they need or are capable of using to its full advantage. If you want an expensive camera, you've been given lots of good recommendations, but for posting on-line, you don't need to get too complicated.
Wayne
yougottawantaI would like to keep the camera in the $500 plus or minus range
Lots of good advice so far in this thread. As a former semi-professional photographer, I have some additional recommendations for you. If you want the best bang for the buck, I would seriously look at Sony’s line of mirrorless e-mount cameras (the NEX line.) They use a very large APS-C sized or full frame sensors just like full sized DSLRs. The advantage to these cameras is/are since they have no mirror prism system they can be made much smaller than a DSLR. This is advantageous to someone who might want to stick a camera up close on a confined space like a model railroad layout. Additionally, they’ve been out several years now, and if you aren’t opposed to buying used, then you can get some absolutely fantastic deals on very capable cameras that simply aren’t the cutting edge anymore (Camera folks like to have the latest and greatest.) With that size reduction, there are some disadvantages. One of those is these cameras don’t have “real” viewfinders, they have electronic ones. In the type of work I envision you doing, I don’t think this matters much. In fact, it could be a plus as most of these cameras have flip out screens that help you frame the image. I’d also like to talk about lenses. When these cameras first came out, they were criticized for not having enough lenses. While I understand that criticism, I think that the real issue was not enough NATIVE lenses. Here is the beauty of these cameras, without getting overly technical in this forum, the reduced flange distance of mirrorless cameras (made possible by the removal of the mirror and prism) means that you can stick almost any lens on these cameras and they will work. What you have to do to make this work is buy an additional adaptor that converts the mounting system of the lens to the camera. The good news is they are just machined metal. The bad news is they convey no electronic information to the camera about lens focal length or aperture setting. Using this technique, I have used 30+ year old lenses that came with my first SLR on my mirrorless cameras. The catch is, you have to be willing to shoot in manual mode. In other words, you have to manually set the aperture and shutter speed and manually focus. While it might seem scary to a complete photography newby, it isn’t as daunting as it sounds. You can set the camera up to automatically set the shutter speed, and manually set the aperture on the camera lens. For manual focus, the NEX line of cameras has a very nifty feature called focus peeking that electronically highlights the areas of the frame that are in focus. The DSLR advice is solid, but when you start adding extra lenses, your going to eat the budget up VERY quickly. One could go to ebay or similar places and add a good number legacy SLR lenses and fill out a kit very quickly and for very little money. 95% of photographer's and sellers don't grasp the value of these legacy lenses given the capability of theses cameras.
I should also mention lighting. To really make these macro images look good, you are going to have to some sort of off camera lighting. While many folks who’ve done this for a while use off camera flash, there is no reason you couldn’t use fixed lighting sources to light these scenes, particularly if you plan on using a tripod. Fixed lighting isn’t nearly as powerful as flash photography and you might run into some lighting temperature issues, but those obstacles aren’t that difficult to overcome.
The final point I want to mention is image processing software. Don’t overlook or underestimate the importance of processing your images after you take them. While discussing RAW format is likely beyond the scope of this post, I would recommend buying software that gives you that capability. A good starting point is Photoshop elements, which is fairly user friendly and can be had for less than $100. Most photo editors will allow you to download a 30 trial version for free. Another must have piece of equipment if you go the route of an interchangeable lens camera is a “rocket blower”. It will help remove those annoying dust specks that show up on an image from dust getting on the cameras sensor. One of the other downsides of mirrorless cameras is their sensors which are not protected by a mirror box, are more susceptible to dust. Usually a few blasts with the rocket blower will take care of the issue. If not, cleaning the sensor with a wet swab (specially made for the job!!!) isn’t really that difficult. Maybe a little scary the first time you do it, but the physical task isn’t difficult. Well this should start the conversation. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Lonnie
ROBERT PETRICK The OP asked for camera recommendations and there has been plenty of good advice. But there's another option. Software. Depth-of-field is a big issue photographing our hobby. Small aperture, slow shutter, and lots of photons only get you so much. There's a software program called HeliconFocus or something like that. You mount the camera on a tripod and take several exposures, each with a different focus distance; near, mid, and far. The software analyzes the images and composites them onto a single image. I haven't used it, I don't think the cost is ridiculous, and I think it might work. High tech stuff, you know. Digital. Robert
There is lots of good advice in this post.
Thanks everyone - wondering if you could provide the links to some of the items being suggested ? An example of the mid grade tripod etc...
The process mentioned by Robert is commonly called "stacking" of image files. The software looks for the most focused items in a series of images entered as batch files converted to tiff format, or something like that. It keeps building a focused image by discarding all that can't be considered focused. The result is an image that is very crisp if all the individual image files have a reasonable progression of depth of focus from the closest to the lens and on to the furthest depths of the scene being imaged. Large gaps in focus ruin the result.
There is a freeware image-stacking software called CombineZP. It is what I have used since about 2009.
Note that this is not an easy process for the most part. It requires placing the camera back into alignment, optically, very precisely each time the focus is changed and the shutter tripped. It needn't be perfect, but the more variance between aiming points and focus depths from image-to-image, the worse the final result. I learned to make a cradle low in the scene so that I could take up the camera repeatedly to alter the focus manually, but still replace it with near perfect alignment each time due to the cradle against which it sat during shutter actuation.
In short, it's a learning process. And the camera I have is a 10 year old Canon Powershot A710is.
Lonnie Utah yougottawanta I would like to keep the camera in the $500 plus or minus range Lots of good advice so far in this thread. As a former semi-professional photographer, I have some additional recommendations for you. If you want the best bang for the buck, I would seriously look at Sony’s line of mirrorless e-mount cameras (the NEX line.) They use a very large APS-C sized or full frame sensors just like full sized DSLRs. The advantage to these cameras is/are since they have no mirror prism system they can be made much smaller than a DSLR. This is advantageous to someone who might want to stick a camera up close on a confined space like a model railroad layout. Additionally, they’ve been out several years now, and if you aren’t opposed to buying used, then you can get some absolutely fantastic deals on very capable cameras that simply aren’t the cutting edge anymore (Camera folks like to have the latest and greatest.) With that size reduction, there are some disadvantages. One of those is these cameras don’t have “real” viewfinders, they have electronic ones. In the type of work I envision you doing, I don’t think this matters much. In fact, it could be a plus as most of these cameras have flip out screens that help you frame the image. I’d also like to talk about lenses. When these cameras first came out, they were criticized for not having enough lenses. While I understand that criticism, I think that the real issue was not enough NATIVE lenses. Here is the beauty of these cameras, without getting overly technical in this forum, the reduced flange distance of mirrorless cameras (made possible by the removal of the mirror and prism) means that you can stick almost any lens on these cameras and they will work. What you have to do to make this work is buy an additional adaptor that converts the mounting system of the lens to the camera. The good news is they are just machined metal. The bad news is they convey no electronic information to the camera about lens focal length or aperture setting. Using this technique, I have used 30+ year old lenses that came with my first SLR on my mirrorless cameras. The catch is, you have to be willing to shoot in manual mode. In other words, you have to manually set the aperture and shutter speed and manually focus. While it might seem scary to a complete photography newby, it isn’t as daunting as it sounds. You can set the camera up to automatically set the shutter speed, and manually set the aperture on the camera lens. For manual focus, the NEX line of cameras has a very nifty feature called focus peeking that electronically highlights the areas of the frame that are in focus. The DSLR advice is solid, but when you start adding extra lenses, your going to eat the budget up VERY quickly. One could go to ebay or similar places and add a good number legacy SLR lenses and fill out a kit very quickly and for very little money. 95% of photographer's and sellers don't grasp the value of these legacy lenses given the capability of theses cameras. I should also mention lighting. To really make these macro images look good, you are going to have to some sort of off camera lighting. While many folks who’ve done this for a while use off camera flash, there is no reason you couldn’t use fixed lighting sources to light these scenes, particularly if you plan on using a tripod. Fixed lighting isn’t nearly as powerful as flash photography and you might run into some lighting temperature issues, but those obstacles aren’t that difficult to overcome. The final point I want to mention is image processing software. Don’t overlook or underestimate the importance of processing your images after you take them. While discussing RAW format is likely beyond the scope of this post, I would recommend buying software that gives you that capability. A good starting point is Photoshop elements, which is fairly user friendly and can be had for less than $100. Most photo editors will allow you to download a 30 trial version for free. Another must have piece of equipment if you go the route of an interchangeable lens camera is a “rocket blower”. It will help remove those annoying dust specks that show up on an image from dust getting on the cameras sensor. One of the other downsides of mirrorless cameras is their sensors which are not protected by a mirror box, are more susceptible to dust. Usually a few blasts with the rocket blower will take care of the issue. If not, cleaning the sensor with a wet swab (specially made for the job!!!) isn’t really that difficult. Maybe a little scary the first time you do it, but the physical task isn’t difficult. Well this should start the conversation. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Lonnie
yougottawanta I would like to keep the camera in the $500 plus or minus range
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but if you're interested in heading out to take pictures in the great outdoors, such as passing trains , you can turn many DSLR's and some point-and-shoot cameras into video cameras.
Happy camera shopping!