I spent the better part of an hour adding bearing caps to the bridge bogies. I had a lot of trouble getting a square cut while removing them from the arch bar trucks until I finally smartened up and used my coping saw. Then two of them dissappeared into the ether when they popped out of my pliers. One looks a little rough but it will be fine once painted. Keep in mind that the bridge is upside down in the picture.
Whether or not anybody will ever see them under the deck remains to be determined.
Dave
By the way, regarding the motor housing screw sockets that I was ranting about, I surrounded them in epoxy so hopefully they will be a little more solid.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Tonight I did a test assembly of the bridge, pit and motor and the turntable turns almost perfectly. I say 'almost' because there was some very slight hesitation at one point. I think it was caused by some flash on the big gear because the bridge did not touch the pit at any point, other than the wheels of course, and they roll very smoothly. The most important part is that the bridge does not rock at all. I applied a fair amount of pressure but there was no deflection.
The drive is noisy but I think once it is buried under the layout it should be fine. I'm sure the prototypes must have made some noise too.
I have given a lot of thought to indexing it but I think I will go with the simplest system possible. I think I have two choices actually. One is to use a center off momentary switch and the other is to use a rheostat with center off position. Jogging the bridge to get final alignment would seem to be easier with the switch, but I like the ability to start the bridge rotation slowly which the rheostat would provide. I hate jerky, toy like movement.
Any thoughts? Can anybody suggest a specific rheostat?
Edit:
I have to rant a bit. Sorry.
One of the screw sockets that is used to hold the lower bushing/motor assembly broke off when I was tightening the screw. Another one has split so that it required repair too. This is a device that by nature requires assembly/disassembly/reassembly to get things lined up properly. Why would the designers not make the screw sockets more substantial? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!
The controller came with it, along with all instructions and paper templates for construction/insertion and programming. I had just one little piece out of place on the gearing of the TT motor when it arrived as I recall.....a cog that had bumped out of position, and it has been fine ever since. Just once in a while a loose bit of my ground cover sand will sit on the ring gear in the pit, and just one little grain will stop the motion. But as this cover is almost never loose, that has happened only once since installed.
I have even dumped a locomotive into the pit when the locos DC settings were left active and all is well.
Cisco Kid:
Thank you for sharing all of those photos and the video. I picked up lots of interesting details.
Did the turntable controller come with the turntable or was it purchased seperately?
I don't know if these picuture files will help, but here is my 130' Walters installed some two or three years back. Never a problem. No problems with installation either. These are the units we all had to wait almost two years to arrive on backorder as the factory in China was low on production and fixing problems.
Unit runs beautifully. I use the controller instead of programming cvs for TT track assignments. This installation is much faster and far more foolproof than fiddling with cv on a throttle to use the TT.
Had left a bed of 2 in high density foam over 1/2" ply for the base. For the longest time it simply resembled a big pink lake in the layout until the unit arrived.
Finally installed.
Used CN style bumpers.
Visiting valuable brass big loco.
Worth a small fortune for this full set of GN brass collected by a friend's father in the '60s
Who is more accurate....Brass loco or Walters round house. The loco does not fit.
My programming/label chart for TT tracks.
Preferred operating config.
Laser was helpful in track alignment, shooting through TT deck to storage tracks.
In progress.
SSome screen shots from the install video available at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P46EfnZsnas&index=11&list=PLKHAU0ooZbm15_bTsRrk5JHFwn1nFve2n
Later features installed are safety fencing, signage and single pole power line tofeed power to top of TT deck.
Our real 90 ft.TT at the West Coast Heritage Rail Park and Museum in Squamish, BC. A former CN unit from back east.
I managed to cobble together a semblance of a drive motor using some gears from a 35mm camera I recently took apart and a brake cylinder:
I have to do some filing and add the power cables.
The new wheels just touch the pit rail so the bridge shouldn't wobble.
Wayne:
Thanks for sharing your TT photos. Very creative construction methods!
I think I can solve the wobbly bridge problem if I can get the new bridge wheels at the right height so they will be in contact with the pit rail but not lifting the bridge up. That will require some repeated careful filing and test fitting but things are pretty close now. It looks like I only need to raise the bridge wheels buy about 1/16" to get everything to line up. If I can get it right, the bridge wheels will support the weight of the locomotive as it crosses on to the bridge.
Ed:
I just sent you a couple of PMs regarding your offer.
Thanks for the additional pictures! The visible drive system is really neat. I hadn't even thought about that sort of detail. All the Walthers kit gives you is two panels that supposedly cover the motor. They're going in the spare parts bin!
I learned, or rather, re-learned a simple lesson tonight. All the parts for the bridge trucks that I was testing were just sitting loose in place. That was fine until I turned the bridge over to look at something else. Yep, parts all over the floor! The lesson - when your are using gravity to hold things together, don't defy it! Fortunately I was able to find them all but bending over to pick them up was a bit painful. My back has been the pits for the last few days. Whine, whine, whine.....what I need is less whine and more wine!
Regards
hon30critterThis is what the wheels supplied with the kit look like
I agree! Walthers always seems to take shortcuts in their mechanical designs. I had to re-engineer the bascule bridge mechanics, their walking-beam oil pumps sound like a strangled cat and the concrete rotary-kiln needed much rework. Still, 'ya work with what 'ya got...
Here's some additional pics of my Diamond Scale 130 footer. I realize that I installed this "temporarily" back in 1997 so I'm ready to get back to "dialing-up" the details but we all may fall into that "now that it's running fine, I hate to mess with it" attitude. I'm guilty.
This shows the "arch" It actually carries current to one bridge rail. I never got around to making better wire connections to the "Slip-Ring" but, again, it works fine. I simply brush painted it and I see lots of bare metal. The near upright looks a little crooked but can be adjusted since it is on 1-72 brass screws to carry the power.
Operators cab. Someday, real glass will be installed
The motor and jack-shaft. Note the journal box on the pinion axle . Note, too, the nasty insect webs. As often as I brush and vacuum them away, they come back hours later!
Back when I installed the klunky Walthers lamp posts, they were "as good as it gets". Now, with SMD LEDs there are better options. I didn't use a rectifier, simply a 1K (I think) resistor. Even powering LEDs you can run them off DCC track power without a rectifier, just the resistor. Experiment sometime with junk LEDs and find a value that works to your liking.
Recessed control panel. Since I have watched this thread I was prompted to visit the NYRS site and found that they will upgrade my control so that I can fine-tune the track alignment without re-programming the whole mess! I'll have to seriously look into that.
My turntable instructions.
And finally, a GTW Mike getting the spin-about. (Please don't kick me for not catching that cut-lever sticking up in the air! I always rag on photographers for not catching that in their photos and here I go and do it That poly-propylene coupler has to go, too!)
Regards, Ed
I have the revamped bridge wheel assemblies roughly assembled to see if the new wheels lined up with the pit rail. I'm happy to say that they lined up perfectly! I have to raise the bridge truck assemblies just a tad so that they aren't lifting the bridge up. That should be fairly simple to do. Here are the modified trucks in rough form:
This is what the wheels supplied with the kit look like :
I discovered that the bridge doesn't rotate freely through 360 degrees. I think I can solve that problem by sanding the ends of the bridge.
Thanks for the very generous offer. I'll send you a PM.
I like the lights on the bridge, and I plan on doing the same thing with scratch built lights. I assume I will have to include a rectifer in the circuit for the LEDs in order to run them off of track power.
The Walthers kit includes a bunch of decals but they are all in black. I doubt that I will use them.
Cheers!
hon30critterMicro Engineering apparently doesn't sell the columns seperately so I guess I'll have to use a bridge kit as a donor.
What parts did you need, Dave? I have been kit-bashing quite a few M-E bridges, and some Central Valley ones, too. I can send you some girder parts I have left over. Many of the rivet plates from C-V and Tichy can be helpful for your arch, too.
http://www.microengineering.com/products_br.htm
I have a Diamond Scale TT with a New York Railway Supply stepper motor indexing. I'm pretty happy with it. I only gave it a basic paint job and hope to get back to doing more details in the future. I want to letter a "WORK SAFELY" slogan on the bridge sometime soon...
I know they're grossly oversized but I wanted the lamp posts on the bridge, too (wired to the rail so they're lit when the DCC is on. The Diamond TT actually collects power for one rail through the arch and the other rail through the pit rails. This is nice because I can use all four brass pit wheels for pickup. I'll try to get a better photo soon. Diamond has a nice motor/gearbox casting at the bridge ends.
Not much to see in this photo of my Walthers 90' turntable. I've motorised it using the motor and gear train from an old VCR, but the turntable itself is too noisy (wheels, I suspect) and flops around too much to stay in position when a locomotive is moving on or off of it. I think that a stronger spring against the driveshaft will fix that.
This is my sorta-scratchbuilt turntable, an 89'er due to limited space...
The pit was cut into the 3/4" plywood top of the layout, which was used here specifically for the installation of a turntable. The pit walls are 1/8" Masonite, and the pit bottom is the cut-out piece from the 3/4" plywood. I cut the concrete base for the ring rail from 1/4" plywood, and the ring rail itself was cut from a piece of Atlas code 83 flex track...
The wheels, face-to-face metal wheels from an Athearn passenger car are mounted in plastic trucks from a freight car, and current for the table's track is via the ring rail and metal wipers, and a wiper on the turntable's shaft (from an old handmixer).The table is a pine block, cut to size, with "steel" sides cut from a couple of Atlas through girder bridges off the "used" table of my LHS. The track is Atlas code 83 flex - I cut the webs joining the ties, then, after spreading them out, added 10"x10" ties cut from basswood which I had on hand. Using the plastic ties kept the rails in-gauge, while the longer wood ties allowed support for the walkway. The deck is 3"x10" basswood (pretty-well using up almost all of my modelling wood - a good thing, since I prefer styrene nowadays). The handrail uprights are from Athearn diesels, with bases made from styrene and brass tubing, while the handrail is .020" music wire.I've not yet added an arch, as I first need to install an overhead steam line from a nearby power plant. This will heat the locomotive shop and carshop, along with the sandhouse and coaling tower. It will also provide steam for pipes under the turntable pit, which will obviate the need for labourers to shovel out the snow, which is generally quite heavy in the region modelled. There are a couple of catchbasin gratings installed in the pit bottom, one of which is visible in the first photo.
Wayne
rrebell:
rrebellI was not implying not kept up, mine just looks like the type without a concrete bottom.
OK, now I understand what your reasoning was. Makes more sense.
hon30critter selector: Nice job on the TT. I think the oily water looks great. The various colours on the pit floor are well done too. I don't want to add tons of weeds and debris in the pit. I want it to look like it is reasonably well maintained. Did you do the 'arch' (can't remember the proper term) or was it part of the kit? Thanks for posting the photo. Dave
selector:
Nice job on the TT. I think the oily water looks great. The various colours on the pit floor are well done too. I don't want to add tons of weeds and debris in the pit. I want it to look like it is reasonably well maintained.
Did you do the 'arch' (can't remember the proper term) or was it part of the kit?
Thanks for posting the photo.
Thanks selector.
The arch that was supplied with my kit is a bit wimpy. I'm thinking about getting some Micro Engineering columns to build a heftier version just for looks. Micro Engineering apparently doesn't sell the columns seperately so I guess I'll have to use a bridge kit as a donor. I'm thinking of using an N scale kit so the arch doesn't look too heavy.
Dave, the arch is part of the model. This TT is the "built-up" version, the first sent out already assembled by Walthers with indexing. It is not the "DCC" version recently released by them. It has been a decade, but I seem to recall having to install the hand rails and perhaps the operator's shack. The electrical arch is also an item to be installed by the owner.
jrbernier The 'kit' turntable is also a problematic one. The pit many times is warped, and the main bearing is plastic. I have the non-DCC 90' one and it is still working after 5 years. Our club has a non-DCC 135' one, and the auto centering is shot - it can 'zero', but will not program tracks. This one is 10 years old. It works fine using the 'eyeball' alignment method
The 'kit' turntable is also a problematic one. The pit many times is warped, and the main bearing is plastic.
I have the non-DCC 90' one and it is still working after 5 years. Our club has a non-DCC 135' one, and the auto centering is shot - it can 'zero', but will not program tracks. This one is 10 years old. It works fine using the 'eyeball' alignment method
Ditto on the 90' kit. I motorized it and it worked OK for a while but now the motor won't turn. It didn't wear out from over use since it was on my branchline and only turns two locos per session.
I'm glad to hear about the problems with the DCC 90' TT. I was considering getting one to replace the kit built one. I think I'll just save my money
My 130' prebuilt non-DCC TT works fine although I occassionally have to clean small pieces of debris out of the gear teeth. Programming the stops proved to be unreliable so I just line it up by eye.
Here is my version of the built-up indexed model from 2006. I figured that with a plugged drain and after some heavy rain, some oily water would accumulate at the bottom of the pit.
Don't have a pic but what I did after painting was paint the inside of the pit bottom with white glue and then pored a dirt colored crushed rock over it. Let dry, dump off the excess rock (or ballast if you want) and then put some weeds here and there and then wet watered it and dribbled on matt medium mixture for baslasting. The reason for the white glue first step is it forms a single sheet when dry and alows for a really thin layer.
Now that I have the turntable under construction I need some inspiration with regard to painting and detailing it.
Please show me pictures of your completed turntables, or pictures of the real thing. I figure it will be much easier to do most of the painting before the bridge is installed in the pit. Rust stains from the tracks leading into the pit can be done once the track is in place but doing the major painting before assembly seems to make sense.
Thanks
I got the turntable yesterday and have done some test fitting. The pit was not warped but I discovered the the lower bushing and the upper bushing do not line up properly. It is enough to cause one end of the bridge to be lower than the other by about 1/4". That causes the low end of the bridge to contact the ties on the pit rail, and of course it would make track alignment impossible.
The solution was fairly simple. There was no allowance for adjusting the position of the lower bearing so I drilled out the mounting holes in the motor cover/lower bearing holder to 7/32". That allowed the motor cover to be moved around just enough that the bearings could be lined up. I will use washers to cover the larger mounting holes. I had to use nylon spacers because the replacement screws were a bit too long (that's all I had on hand). The original screws would have been too short to grip properly with the washers in place.
I am also changing the bridge wheels. I have two sets of surplus wheel sets from Grandt Line switcher kits which have stub axles. The wheels are bigger than the absolutely crappy ones that came with the kit so I have drilled axle holes in the trucks to accommodate them. I can only use the wheels without the gears molded into the hubs. The ones with the gears are too wide. I'll have to get creative to get the visible axle bearings in the right spot. Hopefully the wheels will line up with the pit track but if not I will either adjust the ends of the bridge (simple solution) or grind out the existing track and ties and put a piece of real rail in (complex, messy solution).
I was concerned that I would have to upgrade the bushings but I don't think that will be necessary. Once I had the bushings lined up there didn't seem to be too much slop. I'm hoping that the new bridge wheels will sit on the track to stop the bridge from rocking.
I also cut a slot in the bottom of the motor cover so that I could see the gear mesh with the drive motor. I was concerned that the gears wouldn't mesh properly if I moved the motor cover too much. So far they seem to be fine, but if I need to tighten the gear mesh I will adjust the position of the motor.
hon30critter CG: Thanks for the video. The second turntable seemed to be having some trouble rotating. Maybe the Walthers kits are prototypical after all! Dave
CG:
Thanks for the video.
The second turntable seemed to be having some trouble rotating. Maybe the Walthers kits are prototypical after all!
Good one.
A couple of Canadian turntables at the following link. Both about 0.5 RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66__RTczAGg
CG
Well, I certainly can't say that the turntable seen in the link isn't moving at a prototypical speed, but it's certainly slower than most of the ones I've seen. I've never thought to actually time the speed, though.However, the one which stands out most in my mind was this turntable...
The hostler brought a geep out of the roundhouse and onto the turntable, then turned the table perhaps a little more than 180° to have the loco pointing in the right direction for its train.The table spun so quickly that when it stopped (very abruptly) the loco actually rocked back and forth (side-to-side) quite severely at least a couple of times. I don't know if it was a turnable malfunction, or perhaps the holstler operated it at a speed not normally used (or maybe not normally allowed).
I certainly wouldn't want one to move that fast, but 2 or 2.5rpm looks reasonable to my eye.... slow enough that the loco doesn't rock to a stop, but fast enough that I don't fall asleep. Some operations on our model railroads do need slowing down, but I don't think that they necessarily need to be scaled totally prototypically. Watching a loco being turned on a turntable is no more exciting than pausing for a water stop, or waiting for brake pipe pressure to climb.Even at prototypical speeds (my layout's mainline speed limits are mostly 30mph or less) it doesn't take very long for a train to move from one town to the unprototypically-close next one. Most trains, once they arrive, will have switching work to do: cars to spot, others to lift, and others simply to be re-spotted. This could take anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 or 3 actual hours - some waiting for a switch to be lined, or handbrakes released or set, but most of this keeps the locomotive moving and the operator engaged. "Work" is being done, but I don't think that it needs to translate directly to actual work. Some will, of course, want to operate more prototypically and others less-so, and I certainly respect their choice.
I saw the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum turn one of their steamers a few years ago. It seemed pretty quick at the time. But I just found a YouTube video of the operation, and it is much slower than I remembered. It took well over a minute to turn the engine 180 degrees. The speed of the turntable appeared to vary at times, perhaps simply in response to the operator's contol inputs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHXySaPJS18
Anyway, I think Mel's 65 year old memory is doing just fine. Better than mine, apparently.
doctorwayne I take it that the turntable's rotation is at .45rpm....that seems quite a bit slower than the real ones which I've seen, but if it stops instantly, would make alignment pretty easy to achieve. Wayne
I take it that the turntable's rotation is at .45rpm....that seems quite a bit slower than the real ones which I've seen, but if it stops instantly, would make alignment pretty easy to achieve.
doctorwayne I take it that the turntable's rotation is at .45rpm....that seems quite a bit slower than the real ones which I've seen, but if it stops instantly, would make alignment pretty easy to achieve.
Dayton makes a range of gear motors. The challenge is to find the one you want at a reasonable price.
http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/small-dc-gearmotors/
Zoro has a 4.5 RPM 12 vdc model that I presume could be slowed by lowering the operating voltage.
https://www.zoro.com/dayton-dc-gearmotor-45-rpm-12v-vented-2l006/i/G3445111/
BTW, Zoro is said to be a Grainger company that sells the same lines at much lower prices. I have ordered from them twice. Both orders were shipped immediately and arrived promptly.
My research also indicates that Grainger owns the Dayton brand.
Edit: I also found this 1.5 RPM version, which seems perfect:
https://www.zoro.com/dayton-dc-gearmotor-15-rpm-12v-vented-2l004/i/G2139033/