The LION has (finally) received his new MTH subway cars. The castings are excellent, the car bodies are easy to open. The power car was pulling the equipment more slowly than my rebuilt Walthers Life-Like cars. The lighting of the head end signs etc is excellent, and the lighting of the side destination signs is a nice touch. The problem is that only the power car has head end lighing. But these are subway cars, sometimes this car is at the rear end of the train.
On the Route of the Broadway LION the power cars are usually in the middle of the train. The LION also wires all of the cars together so that the automation systemn works correctly. These cars look like they will be easier re-wire for this service.
The LION will (has) removed the circuit card from the power car, and the speed issue is helped a little bit. Cleaning the tracks (they had not been used all summer) willl certainly help. The Motor in the power car is identical in size to the replacement motors that I am putting in the LL cars. It seems a simple matter to put a new one in the MTH equipment if I have to. The drive train is a beautiful patent.
All in all, well built, but I assumed that I would have to do work on them to make them compatible with my layout. I bought the Silver and blue cars, the blue stripe is darker than on the LL equipment. It is well known that the LION does not quibble over the exavt shaddes of color. We can assume that the MTH sets have more recently come out of the paint shop than the older LL cars.
LION did not buy DCC of course, the DCC cars have a voice track for the stations that would be correct for what ever train they have set up on the destination signs. Problem is the Route of the LION does not place its stations in the correct order, and him also jumps between the IRT, BMT and IND at random as the whim strikes him.
All in all if you want a subway train, it is a good investment. As a matter of fact, it is the only equipment on the market at the moment unless you move to brass equipment at $450. per car. Those do look great and better than the MTH plastic equipment, but are not available to the LION.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
That's great, LION! Looking forward to seeing some pics/vids of them running on your monsterous and circuitous subway route.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have every one of the Walthers subway sets. I changed the couplers to Kadee scale heads and will eventually have them go on a point to point automatic reverser. The stations go around 2 1/2 walls of my room, above the layout.
There are other makers of subway cars out there, and those are resin kits which you would need to add paint, motors and more to get them to run. I did get a 4 car set of the R40 subway cars custom assembled, painted and with motors. Just need to finish installing the auto reverser unit and more. Hope to have it done by the end of the year.
Neal
nealknows I have every one of the Walthers subway sets. I changed the couplers to Kadee scale heads and will eventually have them go on a point to point automatic reverser. The stations go around 2 1/2 walls of my room, above the layout. There are other makers of subway cars out there, and those are resin kits which you would need to add paint, motors and more to get them to run. I did get a 4 car set of the R40 subway cars custom assembled, painted and with motors. Just need to finish installing the auto reverser unit and more. Hope to have it done by the end of the year. Neal
That is one of my future projects an auto reversing set of redbirds going around the ceiling of my layout room.
Lion:
How does the quality of the MTH compare with the old LL sets I seem to always have had trouble with the pantograph falling off until I glued them on?
Joe Staten Island West
The LL pantograph (gates) are a problem Yes they will brush off easily, the MTH look better, but the problem on the railroad of LION is that him removed couplers and replaced them with drawbars to get the cars closer together. Now it is the curves that require the removal of at leas one pantograph per pair. As long as front and ent pantographs are intact LION not worry about the otters.
Two LL Red sets, and two LL Green sets will run on the express tracks. These are loops, and so no problems there.
That will leave me with 3 brown sets adn 3 silver sets for the local trains. I'll reverse the brows at CI and the silvers at 242. And now I have enough cars for an 11th train. LION will have to think about that.
Hey Lion,
Did you try using the shorter shank Kadee couplers on them instead of a draw bar? I have 18" and 15" radius to run these things on.
What you say?
I will have to think about removing the interior pantographs to get the cars closers either using drawbars or couplers when the time comes as the LL cars look ridiculously far apart.
And I think many of my friends who are Staten Islanders won't know the difference (except one who is a retired MTA employee). They know not much about that subway thing that runs in the other 4 boroughs.
The LL equipment came with drawbars and so I assumed that they were inteded for this purpose. Drawbars are required on the Route of the LION because the train line (four wires) run the lenght of the train. 48 wheel pick-up WOO WOO. Also were intended to provide hotel power for the lighting. Also simplifies track wiring. Touble crossing switches are not powered at all, the train just glides over them as they were not there.
LION runs six car trains (four real feet 300 scale feet) and has build 4' long foam cradles to cary them and to turn them on the wrok bench. Much useful these things are.
Technically subways are trains, but quite a genre shall we say.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I believe Island Model Works does sell some CTA bodies.
Yes, Island Model Works has the CTA and NYCTA subway models. He has a guy who will custom paint them and add power to them as well. His friend Dave has done a set of subway cars as well as some LIRR P70 Worlds Fair cars for me as well.
Lion (and all), When I was a kid (1960 or so) I used to ride the front car of the NYC subway from Dyre Avenue in the Bronx into Manhattan with my face pressed against the front door glass so I could see all the tracks and equipment in the dark tunnels. It was fascinating to see how many switches and diverging paths crissed-crossed the undercity labyrinth of rails. I remember seeing trains run parallel to mine and then rise up an incline out of sight going who knows where. It was a thrill when the wheels rolled over an electrical gap and the lights went out in my car. Then I was able to see everything clearly. For the price of a 15 cent token I would ride out the line (and others) all the way to the end in the outer boroughs just to take in new sights. And even though I could catch a bus to travel a short distance across the Bronx, instead I rode the subway downtown into Manhattan and took another line uptown just for the excuse of riding the trains.
Thanks for listening,
Rob
I was only an occasional tourist to NYC but I used to do the same thing. Now that I see how the DC Metro is managed, I would never ride in the front or rear car.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I used to work in DC. Before I retired in the 90's, I commuted in from Annapolis and often took the Metro from New Carrolton to downtown. Back then, it was pretty much OK and I often rode in the first car.
I have been following the current situation on line and find it just appalling. I don't think I would even try to ride the Metro one stop these days. It's flat out scary.
Metro is not all that bad. But If you have seen one car, you have seen them all. If you have seen one station, you have seen them all.
Not only is the subway boring, but the whole city is boring. All square box government buildings row upon row with now shops or anything at street level. And no tall buildings. Nothing taller than the Capitol.
NYC or CHI are good people-friendly cities. DC is almost as bad as FARGO, where if you want to cross the street, you must drive!
That's too bad Lion, I used to go up to DC quite often when I was stationed in Quantico back in the 1970's. I considered it a great walking town, especially in the Mall area. Admittedly, I haven't been back in years, even though I live 100 miles away.
Lion, as a former IRT rider.............I will respectfully say: This is torture........PHOTOS PLEASE!!
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Mr. Mikado......you're talking about the #5 line! I remember it so well; especially the maze of switches just north of the 180th street station where the #2 and #5 merge (southbound)/split (northbound). My favorite thrill was to ride on the lead car on the #2 train and look out of the front window (can't do that anymore)!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Antonio, if you haven't done so already go up to the Lion's last post and click on "Route of the Broadway Lion," highlighted in blue, then prepare to be amazed.
He may not have his MTH cars on there yet, but he's got everything else.
Correct. LION has been busy enough down in computer office, has not been up to trainroom in a wild. Photos will come.
Anticipation....
CentralGulfI don't think I would even try to ride the Metro one stop these days. It's flat out scary.
Russell
csxns CentralGulf I don't think I would even try to ride the Metro one stop these days. It's flat out scary. What is scary about the Metro that you don't like.
CentralGulf I don't think I would even try to ride the Metro one stop these days. It's flat out scary.
What is scary about the Metro that you don't like.
The safety culture that should be there seems nonexistant these days. Dirty and corroded power jumper cables are catching fire at an alarming rate. Despite a complete shutdown in which all of those cables were supposed to be inspected, many were apparently missed.
Communications don't work. Their control center can't seem to remotely control equipment properly. Smoke filled tunnels aren't evacutated properly. Fans don't run. Inspection records have been faked when inspections have gone undone. People have died.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/surprise-metro-is-still-dysfunctional/2016/09/14/f7eb3ffc-79e7-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html?utm_term=.feb743728371
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2016/09/21/metro-confirms-radio-defect-contributed-to-red-line-self-evacuation-incident/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2016/09/21/report-metro-is-constantly-in-a-catch-up-mode-when-it-comes-to-power-infrastructure/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/tripping/wp/2016/09/22/meet-some-metro-riders-ex-metro-riders-that-is/
The last link contains stories about why certain riders quit Metro. One in particular concerns an individual who was a professional railroader before going to work for Metro. Take a look at what Charles “Chuck” Watkins has to say about Metro.
I understand Lion, you also have responsibilities to take care of.
I'm just "rattling the Lion's cage" a bit (I know that can be dangerous!) in hopes of seeing those photos. You being busy is quite understandable.
BroadwayLion Correct. LION has been busy enough down in computer office, has not been up to trainroom in a wild. Photos will come. Anticipation.... ROAR
Thanks Firelock, I checked it out. Always enjoy seeing photos subway related stuff, especially if it's NYC's systems. :-)
Firelock76 Antonio, if you haven't done so already go up to the Lion's last post and click on "Route of the Broadway Lion," highlighted in blue, then prepare to be amazed. He may not have his MTH cars on there yet, but he's got everything else.
You're welcome Antonio! I don't do HO or subways myself, but I'm from that part of the country, Northern New Jersey to be exact, and I find what the Lion does to be absolutely fascinating, and not just the modeling. His photos are amazing in their own right.
I saw the MTH subway cars yesterday during my long awaited pilgrimage to Trainland yesterday.
It willbe interresting to see the LL and MTH cars side by side.
There's a website you subway fans might be interested in...
www.subwaynut.com, in case you've not heard of it.
This guy's on a mission to photograph every subway and transit stop in the country, and he's well on his way if the site's any indication. Fascinating stuff, check it out!
Looks like my thread disappeared from page one, so I'll post this observation here.
I'll preface the following by stating that I rode the prototype "classic" New York City subway trains very often back in the day and still enjoy hearing recordings of the equipment.
I'm impressed with the appearance and lighting of the new HO MTH IRT subway cars. They're beauties, however, the sound I've been hearing on several YouTube clips has me a bit puzzled!
On each MTH subway vid, where a train is stopped and idling, I hear a rather harsh, whirring-type sound. On the classic prototypes from the R-17 to R36 the most prominent and noticeable sounds were the WABCO air compressors pumping, and the louds sounds of the brakes engaging/disengaging when stopping and starting.
As the motorman releases the brakes, you hear a slight "Huff" and then a prolonged "Tsssssss" as the train starts to roll. As it starts rolling the traction motors make a slight "whine" that levels off in a few seconds. At the end of the line, the motorman would engage what mechanics called the "ICC brake", which produced a very loud "CHAAAA!" sound from every car. He'd leave the cab and walk to the opposite end of the train for the return trip. Those sounds are etched in my memory! Yet, I hardly hear these sounds on the MTH vids.
I realize that, to be fair, one should hear a sample in person. However, even with the limitations posed by listening on line I expected to hear a few familiar sounds.
Here's an MTH HO sound equipped IRT subway train:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LIzpFKjLN0
You can hear some of the sounds I've mentioned on the video link below. Move the play arrow to time index 0:40 and listen thru to time index 2:10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpqUL8xPP48
You hear those WABCO 2 series compressors pumping hard and stopping, and the "Huffs" and "Hisses" of brakes releasing. As a kid (and today) these sounds were sweet mechanical music to me.
On this vid go to time index 2:04 listen carefully, and you'll hear the slight "whine" of the traction motors as a #7 IRT train takes off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy5-wYNRxF8
I'm not here to bash MTH as I'm glad to see these subway cars and would like to purchase several. But I'm questioning the source for the sounds or, perhaps, how they were mixed and equalized. Even if it was the "Train of Many Colors", I can understand the absence of the Wabco compressor sounds but the other sounds (brakes, traction motors, whine, ICC or emergency brake) should, imho, still be there.
It's funny how many of my fellow New Yorkers would say "Man those trains were loud!" not thinking that it was the wheels clacking on the jointed rails and squealing as the flanges "attacked" the rails on curves. Unlike the Lo-V trains, the R-17 thru R-36 trains were actually much quieter when stopped at stations, especially after the WABCO series air compressors cut off.
I realize that most of the IRT units had their air compressors replaced during their twilight years, but from my understanding some still retained their WABCO'S.
Finally got a reply, via my email. I'll post it here. Djj's term "Westy" refers to WABCO (Westinghouse).
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Happy new year fp45. Saw your subway post on 2 forums. I'm around the half century mark and lived those days lol. You gotta be the only other guy besides me that remembers crazy details about NY subways everybody else ignores.
Heard the mth subways up close. Brake release sounds are good but hard to hear on computr speakers. Dont forgt MTA started rebuilding the fleet in 85. Lot of compressors were replaced with a new kind but some of the old westy compressors you talk about were still good and got rebuilt. The new compressors sounded like drills. Im guessing thats what mth recorded and you heard on youtube. But maybe it can be turned down. Did you ask them?
I want the 4 car dcc ready set with no sound. Model train stuff has them. Before you ask NO my subway is not getting grafiti! Im still mad at my buddy Johnny for taggin trains back then and rip him about it.
Send me pictures when you get your set. - Djjohnson
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