I have bought a number of items off eBay; most of which have been model railroading-related and I've been very happy with the purchases and the sellers. I've gotten anywhere from a fair price for an item or items to a few amazing deals. I knew what I was looking for, I knew what the going rate was for the item, I knew the maximum that I wanted to spend, and I knew how to be patient.
That said, I'm still mystified that some sellers even stay in business who constantly and consistently charge two to three times what other sellers are selling the same item for AND the same condition. (And I'm not talking about rare or vintage items either.) One in particular and who shall remain nameless has 14K+ sales and has even been deemed a "Top Rated Plus" seller. With a 100% feedback rating I guess they treat their customers very well.
Yes, I understand that seller's can sell whatever they want at whatever price they think that they can get for an item. I also understand that buyers will put a value on an item and pay whatever price for what they consider worthy of their money. I get that. Even with FREE shipping - I just don't understand why buyers continue to buy from a seller who demands top-dollar plus for EVERY single item they sell???
To each his own. I just shake my head and look for sellers who can sell me an item of interest at reasonable rates. Most of the time I can generally get something on eBay for 20-30% off MSRP and have gotten VERY nice pieces for as much as 70% off with a bit a patience.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Yeah, a lot of those ebay stores list B-I-N prices higher than many LHSs. In some ways, all of that talk about how online sales are cheaper and more efficient than brick and mortar shops is just marketing dogma.
When it could be just the same dynamic as ever. Undercut the competition until they go under, consolidate, then charge what you want. I think we are starting to see internet sales of everything beginning to charge what they want. Hopefully, there will be enough competion to keep prices honest.
Ebay is still a place for people to sell used goods. I just set my settings to "auction". I notice it cuts down the available products to about 15% of the number of items lised for sale so it saves time having to wade through those shops trying to get 90% of MSRP.
- Douglas
Tom,My guess is they think the item is literally worth its weight in gold.
I use 5 different e-Bay stores and all are B&M shops that decided e-Bay stores was better suited for their needs then having a regular web site.All have competitive BIN pricing.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
One thing to consider may be the availability of the item elsewhere, and the immediate perceived "need" to obtain it by the buyer. The item in question could be the last piece needed for a project, and therefore its percieved value is higher than normal. If the only one available is at a high cost, the buyer may be ok with that for completing a project or finding an item they've been looking for for a while.
Also, the buyer either may not be patient enough to wait for someone else to sell the item at a lower price, or so they buy the first one they find (I'm guilty of this myself occasionally).
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
Bundy74Also, the buyer either may not be patient enough to wait for someone else to sell the item at a lower price, or so they buy the first one they find (I'm guilty of this myself occasionally).
I've cross my "too much to pay" line twice once for a set of handrails for my RS-1 and the other for my Summerset SW1500 which was used but,has a beautiful ACL's purple and silver with thin gold stripe scheme.
Another thing the buyer may do is buy within the first 5 pages. I usually go 25-30 pages if I'm browsing e-Bay.If I do a search for a specific item then I will look through every page that was returned in the search.
A prime example is my LL P2K SCL GP38-2.On the first three pages the prices was around $80-90.00 but,on page 4 of 6 there she was #509 BIN for $55.00 with free shipping from the same shop I bought #500 from at the same price with free shipping..
Sometimes it is hard to judge. I have a bid right in now on a vintage item that will go well with my layout. I have nothing to compare it to as it is the only one I have found. So my rule is set a limit so you don't get into an indefinate bidding war at the end and stick to it.
In case I am hoping no one else knows about or bids on the item currently listed at $14.95 but in any event my upper limit is $20, My life will not be ruined if I am out bid.
Mostly I use Ebay for used vintage items. I have not found much savings on new stuff that I can purchase online or at a b & m.
Joe Staten Island West
One must look at the buyer, there are people out there that could care less about the price, if they want it they get it, their ship has come in so to speak.
BRAKIE Another thing the buyer may do is buy within the first 5 pages. I usually go 25-30 pages if I'm browsing e-Bay.If I do a search for a specific item then I will look through every page that was returned in the search. A prime example is my LL P2K SCL GP38-2.On the first three pages the prices was around $80-90.00 but,on page 4 of 6 there she was #509 BIN for $55.00 with free shipping from the same shop I bought #500 from at the same price with free shipping..
And the true bargains come when youdon't care about roadname.
It is what it is. I just received a shipment of 8 HO Intermountain Santa Fe stock cars; rare items that may or may not be produced again in my lifetime. I have been watching for a while so I could get several of these cars; I ended up with eight individual buy it nows for a fair price, got a shipping rebate to boot. I now can string together a 14 car stock train, something that was typical for the branch line I want to model.
Yep yep yep. Seen lots of the insanely priced items. Whatever. Move along, move along.
Just like other examples similar to this in other venues, they are waiting for the really desperate person who has more money than sense, which by watching this stuff there aren't very many of them out there. It would be interesting to see the percentage of those items priced at insane 2x or 3x MSRP prices, what percentage actually sells. All I know is they are beyond what I would pay and sometimes I have paid near MSRP prices or in one or two cases a bit more.
Best thing is to just scroll past that nonsense and let your brain go dead. It's a lot easier on your blood pressure. Don't let them get to you. They are the loonies, not you.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 Yep yep yep. Seen lots of the insanely priced items. Whatever. Move along, move along. Just like other examples similar to this in other venues, they are waiting for the really desperate person who has more money than sense, which by watching this stuff there aren't very many of them out there. It would be interesting to see the percentage of those items priced at insane 2x or 3x MSRP prices, what percentage actually sells. All I know is they are beyond what I would pay and sometimes I have paid near MSRP prices or in one or two cases a bit more. Best thing is to just scroll past that nonsense and let your brain go dead. It's a lot easier on your blood pressure. Don't let them get to you. They are the loonies, not you.
I find if I'm interested in an item I just buy it when it first comes out. I never buy new on eBay.
I can pick up some good deals on older items on eBay, you have to patient and know what the item is worth.
Ebay will keep getting worse if they keep raising their fees.... The seller pays big fees to both Ebay and to PayPal... It may be a total of as much as 25% of the sum paid by the buyer for both the item and for shipping & Handling.
The seller must get the money for those high fees from the buyer one way or another. ... If there is free shipping, the item price must be bumped up.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Heartland Division CB&QEbay will keep getting worse if they keep raising their fees....
That probably explains why I found the same locomotive from the same seller that also had listed it on Amazon. Lower selling price and free shipping. Overall I saved about 15% by using Amazon.
Not in every case, mind you, but it pays to do an extensive Google search for the particular item you are looking for and exploring all your options.
Regards, Ed
I have curtailed my e-Bay buying significantly in the past few months. The main reason are the shipping costs to Canada from the USA. Even at First Class rates the shipping costs usually negate any bargains. I refuse to buy if the seller is demanding Priority shipping or the Global Shipping Program.
I have spent a fair bit on Amazon recently. As somebody said, the shipping is usually pretty reasonable and it is often free.
What I find interesting is that items from England and Europe cost much less to ship, and the shipping is fast.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Tom, it sounds to me like your bewilderment is not with eBay but, rather, with buyers who pay too high a price in your estimation. Two totally different things.
As for eBay, for all of its flaws, it has two extremely positive advantages. One , it reaches a truly national audience. Two, it is the place to find hard to find items.
Rich
Alton Junction
Heartland Division CB&QThe seller must get the money for those high fees from the buyer one way or another. ... If there is free shipping, the item price must be bumped up.
Or hoping the buyer is stupid enough to believe it cost $14.95 to ship a car or locomotive-who gets the shipping refund?
Most of the items I buy has free shipping and the price is very competitive for a new or use locomotive.
Like my P2K SCL GP18 it was $65.00 with free shipping while the other three was around $89.00 with $11.55 shipping.
You are correct about bumping the price up though but,it pays to shop around before buying especially on e-Bay.
richhotrain Tom, it sounds to me like your bewilderment is not with eBay but, rather, with buyers who pay too high a price in your estimation. Two totally different things. As for eBay, for all of its flaws, it has two extremely positive advantages. One , it reaches a truly national audience. Two, it is the place to find hard to find items. Rich
Rich,
The bewilderment is mainly a combination of two musings:
As mentioned, sellers have the liberty to sell any item they want at any price they think a buyer is willing to pay for it. And buyers have the liberty to purchase that same item for the selling price if they deem it a "value" to them; whatever that entails.
It's more an economical musing than a philosophical one, Rich. I just don't see how these few successful (e.g. Top Rate Plus), well-established sellers continue to stay in business asking the prices that they are asking for not-so-rare items. Perhaps the best answer would come from the buyers themselves...
Ebay offers free listing fees to sellers. I sell the items I have that no longer fit my layout. I get 50 free listings a month. If I had an eBay "store" that number goes to 200! For many sellers, that thakes away the incentive to price items to sell. Check the high opening bid sellers, sold listings. Most don't sell that much.
At least one of the "high priced sellers" is a very reputable brass dealer whose primary business is consignment sales of typically higher end brass models. These are the very models that others outside the United States will typically spend a lot of money for. Also, the dealer has a financial incentive to get the most he possibly can for his clients, as his fee is then also larger. The clients are often not in a hurry to sell today; they are "maximizing their investment".
One of the aspects here is that the descendants of the Japanese brass builders want to obtain and collect fine examples of their parents' or grandparents' modelmaking. Somewhat unlike some of the production in South Korea, the Japanese always took great pride in the models they made, getting together weekly with fellow builders to show off their art. So the descendants are willing to pay big bucks for premium models, which has also crossed over into the same or other international customers paying big bucks for the better Korean stuff, too.
So when you see the high minimum bid prices on certain rare or higher end brass, you need to realize that price is based on the international market for HO brass, where some customers still have American prototypes on a relative pedestal, along with Elvis, genuine American muscle cars, etc. etc.
According to one semi-retired brass dealer on these forums, for items above about $1200 in value, 90% of the HO brass sales on forums like Ebay are models moving from the U.S. to international clients.
John
BRAKIE Heartland Division CB&Q The seller must get the money for those high fees from the buyer one way or another. ... If there is free shipping, the item price must be bumped up. Or hoping the buyer is stupid enough to believe it cost $14.95 to ship a car or locomotive-who gets the shipping refund? Most of the items I buy has free shipping and the price is very competitive for a new or use locomotive. Like my P2K SCL GP18 it was $65.00 with free shipping while the other three was around $89.00 with $11.55 shipping. You are correct about bumping the price up though but,it pays to shop around before buying especially on e-Bay.
Heartland Division CB&Q The seller must get the money for those high fees from the buyer one way or another. ... If there is free shipping, the item price must be bumped up.
Larry ... The seller paid fees to Ebay and to Paypal totalling roughly $15.00 on your $65.00 purchase. So he took in a net of about $50.00. .... Most sellers pay for the excessive fees of Ebay and PayPal by charging a high enough Shipping and Handling to cover it.
Note the phrase "shipping and handling" is not simply "shipping" ...... Also, the seller may need to drive to the post office, and his car expenses would have to be considered. (However, postal carriers do pick up Priority Mail from a business or residence).
Heartland Division CB&QAlso, the seller may need to drive to the post office, and his car expenses would have to be considered. (However, postal carriers do pick up Priority Mail from a business or residence).
Correct and you can order the Priority boxes for free and your carrier will drop them off on your door step.Going to the post office is old school that many still do.You can pay on line and print your shipping costs and place it on the box.Very handy.A extra large bag of shipping peanuts/popcorn(around $25.00 locally) doesn't cost much per shipment.
I suspect he wanted $50.00(that's local train show prices) for that GP18 and figured $65.00 covers all bases. I've done that myself. No foul.He got his price and I got my SCL GP18 at a price I was willing to go with "free" shipping and IMHO it was a win/win.
It would cost me at least $15.00(lunch,parking and admittance) plus gas to go to a show and still may not find a SCL GP18.
The sellers are waiting for when places like MBKlein, Trainworld, etc. run out of stock, until the buyers have little choice or patience. These ebay stores just keep automatically relisting the item...forever. I hope they get charged fees for every relist, but I suspect they don't.
They don't get charged for relistings up to a certain number, as someone pointed out. And it was when Ebay changed their policy to allow relistings for free that we began to see the insane prices that were double or triple MSRP.
Most of the items I see for insane prices are long out of stock items, many of them Athearn RTR items; I check regularly and have managed to find many of those items for much better prices by patiently checking and waiting. For example, people have been listing 5-packs of certain coal gondola's for $159; they MRSP'd for $89 when first on the market - so pretty high. I picked up a set of the same ones for $85 recently to fill out a train of those coal gons.
I'm probably considered a cheapskate relative to many, but I find my price threshold creeps up as the available inventory dwindles.
The above case is one of those examples of where your price threshold can creep up; back when those coal gons came out, I found them at street prices of ~ $60 for the 5-pack (MSRP $89.98). In fact I bought four 5-packs of them when first on the market. At that time I wouldn't have paid more than maybe $70 per 5-pack but 10 years later they are pretty hard to find and with the overall increase of RTR products, $85 was something I considered a decent price now.
New runs of those gons are now priced at $79.98 and they have been reduced from 5-pack to 3-pack. Do the math it comes out to $133 for 5 of those cars (MSRP). So $85 for a 5-pack on Ebay was by todays standards a decent price. Other certain Athearn RTR items (it does matter which) tend to be priced at even more insane prices.
So I do pay higher prices than I would have tolerated 10 years ago, but usually it's because I'm searching for items long out of stock and the current day costs are much higher so if that same item was produced to day, new, you would certainly pay alot more - it helps you justify paying higher for an older item - up to a point of course. The prices being asked on Ebay are totally unacceptable to the vast majority of us which is why they stay listed for many weeks; eventually you will see the Ebay price creep ever so gradually down on some items because the seller does want to sell those items within their life time Basically you have to be patient. I've found over a period of months or perhaps a year, you will eventually find most of the items you want while the greed-items collect electron dust.
DAVID FORTNEY I find if I'm interested in an item I just buy it when it first comes out. I never buy
I find if I'm interested in an item I just buy it when it first comes out. I never buy
Easier said than done; Sure, I do the same thing, IF I can afford to buy items when they come out. But as often is the case, more product is hitting the market than I have budget for, so something have to go by the way side.
riogrande5761 Most of the items I see for insane prices are long out of stock items, many of them Athearn RTR items; I check regularly and have managed to find many of those items for much better prices by patiently checking and waiting. For example, people have been listing 5-packs of certain coal gondola's for $159; they MRSP'd for $89 when first on the market - so pretty high. I picked up a set of the same ones for $85 recently to fill out a train of those coal gons.
Yea, I saw certain discontinued Walthers passenger cars going for $160 when others were selling the exact same ones/same condition for $60-80. So it wasn't like there were only one or two available.
It's no skin off my back. Folks can pay whatever and to whomever they wish. I just wait patiently for a right & fair price and buy or bid on an item within that price window. And sometimes I've skipped eBay altogether because I found a better deal from an online vendor.
BRAKIE Heartland Division CB&Q The seller must get the money for those high fees from the buyer one way or another. ... If there is free shipping, the item price must be bumped up. Or hoping the buyer is stupid enough to believe it cost $14.95 to ship a car or locomotive-who gets the shipping refund?
Ebay is not necessarily the culprit here.
I have passed by many a table at train shows where a vendor has an array of Tyco, Model Power, AHM and other "train set" variety items for sale at what most of us would consider "outrageous" prices.
I recall stopping by one of these tables once and the seller had the tiny white tags on a string like a jewelery store would use hanging from every item. Curious, I picked up an AHM "C-liner" lettered for Corky's Railway. The tag only had a number on it. This was years before anybody had even heard the word Ebay.
Seeing my "interest" he seller then pulled out a 3-ring binder and looked up the "market price" of that fine specimen. He had every piece of stock inventoried, graded and priced accordingly. I thought I was at Tiffany's or a Sotheby's auction. Truly, this stuff came right out of a junk box with parts missing and definite signs of careless handling.
Again, these are just marketing strategies that these particular sellers prefer to use. They must have at least some success at it.
tstage riogrande5761 Most of the items I see for insane prices are long out of stock items, many of them Athearn RTR items; I check regularly and have managed to find many of those items for much better prices by patiently checking and waiting. For example, people have been listing 5-packs of certain coal gondola's for $159; they MRSP'd for $89 when first on the market - so pretty high. I picked up a set of the same ones for $85 recently to fill out a train of those coal gons. Yea, I saw certain discontinued Walthers passenger cars going for $160 when others were selling the exact same ones/same condition for $60-80. So it wasn't like there were only one or two available. It's no skin off my back. Folks can pay whatever and to whomever they wish. I just wait patiently for a right & fair price and buy or bid on an item within that price window. And sometimes I've skipped eBay altogether because I found a better deal from an online vendor. Tom
Thats the good thing about competition. I was listening to the radio and come pharmaceutical company marked up the cost of Epipens for 400% and it's causing a lot of consternation. There simply need to be another produce them at the previously normal profitable price and the other company will be out in the cold. Same for Ebay. Of course the reason why some of these items are at insane prices is generally, they are hard to find.
The key is patience and it's usually a matter of watching carefully and in a matter of weeks, sometimes months, the same item(s) will show up at much more reasonable prices. I don't really think there are that many people who are that impatient that they are willing to pay double MRSP (give or take) for items. Somewhere between 95 and 100% of those items never sell at those prices. Those dafty's can try as they might, but they are just sitting on stuff that could actually be generating cash; or else someone else will sell that stuff or less when the proprietor finally dies of old age trying!
Choice is a good thing; scroll past those silly Ebay listing just like you walk out of those LHS shops with full price items. Same thing only a bit more extreme.
Sure, gougers have been around for a long time; Ebay is just a more recent "modern" place you can find them. But the ones at train shows are having to pay rent for table space to sit on their stuff, pay for hotel, food, travel, gas etc. So they won't be able to not sell overpriced stuff for as long I suspect.
And yes, train shows have their examples. There is a guy in the Maryland/Virginia area who regularly has shelves of trains that have extemely worn boxes from constant trips back and forth. I saw an Intermountain ice reefer in the old style box they haven't shipped rolling stock in since around 2005/6 time frame. He wanted MRSP for that car saying it was a rare item and long out of stock item. No kidding! But I know full well Intermountain has re-ran that ice reefer umpteen times and in newer style boxes and more are coming and the street price will be for less. Many know this and thats why the shelfware. A large percentage of this vendors stock will likely be in his possession when he retires or passes away. His choice of course.
richhotrainIt can cost as much as $14.95 to ship a locomotive if it is well packed and sent to a distant location. Rich
Not really. I shipped two Athearn CF7s from Ohio to Georgia for $6.95 and the Priority box was packed to the limit with shipping peanuts.Those engines arrived safe..I probably used 25 cents worth of shipping peanuts. The box was free and while I was out for breakfast I swung by the post office since it was on the way to the restaurant.I could have done all that at home and scheduled a pickup by my carrier.
BRAKIE richhotrain It can cost as much as $14.95 to ship a locomotive if it is well packed and sent to a distant location. Rich Not really. I shipped two Athearn CF7s from Ohio to Georgia for $6.95 and the Priority box was packed to the limit with shipping peanuts.Those engines arrived safe..I probably used 25 cents worth of shipping peanuts. The box was free and while I was out for breakfast I swung by the post office since it was on the way to the restaurant.I could have done all that at home and scheduled a pickup by my carrier.
richhotrain It can cost as much as $14.95 to ship a locomotive if it is well packed and sent to a distant location. Rich
To Georgia is one thing. Indiana to California is a minimum 12 bucks Priority, no matter what size parcel. (unless the small flat rate stuff)
Doughless BRAKIE richhotrain It can cost as much as $14.95 to ship a locomotive if it is well packed and sent to a distant location. Rich Not really. I shipped two Athearn CF7s from Ohio to Georgia for $6.95 and the Priority box was packed to the limit with shipping peanuts.Those engines arrived safe..I probably used 25 cents worth of shipping peanuts. The box was free and while I was out for breakfast I swung by the post office since it was on the way to the restaurant.I could have done all that at home and scheduled a pickup by my carrier. To Georgia is one thing. Indiana to California is a minimum 12 bucks Priority, no matter what size parcel. (unless the small flat rate stuff)