For the record I tried using Thomas and other toy trains to interest my boys in the hobby and it did not work. Many children do not make the leap from talking trains, cars, or planes to modeling any of them. Also my local school district openly teaches that trains are for babies, so that did not help matters at all, as they both heard that by first grade...youngest has a few trains but no longer uses them.
While I am sure the Lionel trainset will be sort of ok, I would spend that money on HO brass steam which is currently on Christmas sale at good, very comparable prices. I am hoping to pick up at least a T&P 2-8-0 that is very correct...
RRR_BethBr After seeing my 2-year old son's reaction to my HO/O31 trains under the tree, I'm strongly considering one of these. By 3 I'm betting he'll even be able to manage the Lionchief remote control with a little help. Not so much my NCE powercab (which I'm still figuring out). Molded on detail? Great, I can let him pick it up without worrying he's going to send steam pipes and air pumps flying. I refuse to be the Dad from Lego movie who has a room full of 'toys' his kids aren't allowed to touch! He already loves the trains, and I'm not going to darken that cloud by making them 'forbidden'
After seeing my 2-year old son's reaction to my HO/O31 trains under the tree, I'm strongly considering one of these. By 3 I'm betting he'll even be able to manage the Lionchief remote control with a little help. Not so much my NCE powercab (which I'm still figuring out).
Molded on detail? Great, I can let him pick it up without worrying he's going to send steam pipes and air pumps flying. I refuse to be the Dad from Lego movie who has a room full of 'toys' his kids aren't allowed to touch! He already loves the trains, and I'm not going to darken that cloud by making them 'forbidden'
I agree with you with molded on details for kids being a good idea. Never underestimate how adaptable kids are to modern devices.
My son is 3 and uses most of the controls on the digitrax zypher. We run bachmann 2-8-0, BLI 2-8-2, Walthers RS-2, and Walthers 0-8-0 all the time. (Obviously the simpler cheap stuff) He puts the cars on the rails with a help of a rerailer. He operates the whistle, bell, light, makes it go forward, backward, slow and fast. He can tell when a car is off the rails.I trust him, but watch him every step of the way. He knows soon as he takes the engines off the track he's done . He does however like going "OH NO!!!!" as he makes an engine ram into a matchbox car. He then laughs and giggles. He's been doing this for a year now and he still doesn't get tired of it.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
The DCC sound equipped Bachmann version is ~$200 if you look around.
And you should be able to grab a very nice P2K Berk with sound for ~$200 on fleeBay.
Given the level of detail on the cars, you can pick up a set of RR or IHC for considerably less.Lionel has an uphill battle IMHO for serious modelers. These will however be less prone to breaking with molded on details. Mom, Dad, and Grandparents might not know or care any better. But have others have stated, O-Scale would have been a better choice if this is to be a toy alone. Admittingly there will be some who collect these just for the "Lionel" name. But it boggles my mind why Lionel would go after a market with such a limited scope.
DAVID FORTNEY it was meant to look like a toy not a scale model. If it looked like a scale model I would not have bought it.
it was meant to look like a toy not a scale model. If it looked like a scale model I would not have bought it.
So we agree right?
The whole thing is a fantasy train from a movie, why does everybody think of it as a scale model? Did anybody see the movie?
Yes, I saw the movie maybe 5 years ago. I don't think any one has any allusions as to what this represents. Maybe we can put this whole thing to bed now and put a fork in it.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
As the dad of a 5 y/o who's son is CRAZY about trains, our introduction to model railroading started with a O gauge Polar express set. 2 years ago. We now have no less than 6 different train scales/layouts.
DAVID FORTNEYDid anybody see the movie
Russell
riogrande5761 IRONROOSTER Most of the American Flyer line are Toy Train quality - Enjoy Paul This HO Polar Express, to be fair, has the train set look about it too, to most scale modelers including myself. But it's meant to look like a toy train, now a detailed scale model.
IRONROOSTER Most of the American Flyer line are Toy Train quality - Enjoy Paul
Most of the American Flyer line are Toy Train quality -
Enjoy
Paul
This HO Polar Express, to be fair, has the train set look about it too, to most scale modelers including myself. But it's meant to look like a toy train, now a detailed scale model.
If I were you buying a train for a three year old I would buy the O27 one. It will be much more able to take the abuse of a rambunctious 3 year old. It's a great set.
Let him have fun and not worry if he gets a little rambunctious during play time.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.
Dave
Molded on detail? Great, I can let him pick it up without worrying he's going to send steam pipes and air pumps flying. I refuse to be the Dad from Lego movie who has a room full of 'toys' his kids aren't allowed to touch! He already loves the trains, and I'm not going to darken that cloud by making them 'forbidden'.
The only question is will he like the bigger O27 Lionchief set more? The HO version is actually a bigger, chunkier scale-profile Berk (albeit in a smaller scale), while the O27 set is much more selectively compressed.
I just recieved my set of E&T and 3 cars and I have to say it is much better then I thought it was going to be.
The E&T although with allot of molded detail, the molding is crisp and looks great. it also runs and sounds great.
A great first venture into HO scale for Lionel. ( yes I know they were in it before)
BTW I run it on my layout and the grand kids love it. A old blue comet std. gauge train runs under the tree Of over 1,000 glass ornaments.
Now that the one I ordered for display in my shop has arived, is unpackaged, and I've taken the time to read the manual, and actually play with it, Here's my opinion of the model:
The detail, though moulded in is good. I've seen brass engines that sold for about the same price without DCC with less detail.
For HO scale, the passenger cars are heavy, and the lighting does not flicker.
There is only one plug between the engine and tender, unlike Bachmann Spectrum series loco's and others I've seen. which males it easier to set up. There are two draw bar holes for attaching the tender, the farther one is for 18" radious curves, the train will manage 18" radious curves, but likes 22" better.
It sounds good, the announcements are actually Tom Hanks' voice recorded and played back through the tender. the whistle blast length is determined by how long you hold the button, so giving the button a quick press and release gives a short whistle blast. The engine runs smoothly at slow speeds. Only the front and rear drive wheels are flanged like the O scale model. Truthfuly I think the HO model has more detail than the O scale version.
According to the manual, the engine can be run by any bluetooth device running Lionel's LionChief app, so if the remote is damaged or lost a smart phone can replace the remote. it will also run from a DCC transformer, or conventional transformer. With operating from a conventional transformer, Lionel recommends turning off the sound, bacause the sound cannot operate below 16volts. However, you can use a conventional transformer to power the train if you are controling it from the remote or a bluetooth device. When powering up a conventional transformer to power the PE, the engine headlamp and tender reverse lamps blink while it is searching for the remote, when 16volts is reached the engine and tender beep to let you know it is getting the correct voltage to power both the train's movement and sound system. After it beeps turning on the remote will cause the headlamp to be steady on, the tender light to go off, and the engine will begin the steady chuff of a steam engine water pump operating.
One thing of importance they do note in the manual, the engine and tender are not compatable with pulsed DC transformers. I know that this is also true of Broadway Limited's engines as well, which are in the $400.00-800.00 MSRP range.
Compared to other DCC sound/DC equipped HO scale engines on the market today I would say that the $149.99 MSRP is a fair price for what you get from the engine and tender. The 49.99 price per car is also fair for the quality of the product. There are 5 total cars available currently, the three car pack has a coach, the abandon toys car, and the observation car, the Hot Chocalat car and another coach are sold individually. the total MSRP for the engine, tender and 5 cars is $499.99, that's only $100.00 more than the Bachmann civil war set MSRP, which are conventional only.
I think if people actually are shown this train it will be a good selling product for Lionel. I've had the display unit on the store layout for two days, and have orders from customers for two of them.
It'll be a nice addition to under the tree.
DAVID FORTNEY The polar express is my favorite Christmas movie. So a HO polar express set is right up my ally. I would like it to be a quality set, but not expecting top notch detailing like a Genisis engine Or 85' passenger cars. The cars look like 70' with window strips.
The polar express is my favorite Christmas movie.
So a HO polar express set is right up my ally. I would like it to be a quality set, but not expecting top notch detailing like a Genisis engine Or 85' passenger cars. The cars look like 70' with window strips.
Hi David
I won't pick one up for me but maybe the grandson. Do what pleases you and don't worry about the usual people who gripe about everything and everyone who does things differently.
Contrary to some comments made here, This is forum hasn't changed a bit from the "good old days", only the names that rotate in then eventually disappear into forum history.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Hi Guys,
I own and operate a hobby shop in york county PA, and ordered a HO scale PE train (engine and tender, three car set, plus the additional two add-on cars) for my shop back in July, even before the artwork was sent out. Lionel stated that they intended this to be an "add on train" for existing layouts and specifically not a starter set, so modelers that have HO layouts could run the PE for their kids, friends, and just for fun on their permanent layout. So, it's intended market is modelers with children, or modelers that are children at heart.
Let's face it it is a DCC/DC/LionChief/Railsounds equipped HO scale engine and the MSRP is a little over 1/2 the MSRP of BLI's PRR L1. So I would expect it do be less deailed. Then again I have a 1970's GS-4 American Freedom Engine by Lionel that had better detailing than some brass GS-4's that I've seen. So until I have the actual product in my hand, I'm not going to pass judgement on how detailed it is or isn't.
I've been into toy trains since I was old enough to crawl, my home layout is a flight-of-fancy HO scale layout that is 12X8 feet in an "L" on that layout I run two main-line trains, an American Freedom engine pulling 13 50' old time pullmans from railroads accross the country, and an Allighaney pulling a 43 car freight train some cars of which are Lionel HO, in addition I have a mountain scenic line that I run an undecorated brass 3 truck shay. It pulls 6 Roundhouse 36foot old time pullmans that are labeled with Lima RR and have shay engines painted on them hat I built from kits, the shay climbes a full 1-1/2 feet vertically in a 4'X4' area of the layout, that the main lines run under. Then I have my local freight, that is either a 0-4-0 undecorated brass camelback or an A.C.Gilbert American Flyer HO PRR 0-6-0 pulling 6 freight cars around a loop of track that has a 12inch radious curve at one point. Obviously since I'm runnung a 1950's A.C. Gilbert HO engine I'm not using DCC.
In my shop I have three basic layouts, an O scale, an HO scale, and a N scale, that are all operated from behind my counter, that I run my personal trains on as displays.
Once I get the HO PE it will be joining the shop's O PE on the store layouts.
cprfan$500 isn't a lot for a toy for a kid these days
$ 500 may not be much for a kid´s toy these days, but those $ 500 have to feed a family of four for a month. Lucky those, who can afford atoy of that price, but I am afraid a growing number of people can´t.
I won't be buying one. However, I often read complaints that the hobby is dying etc... One way to avoid having the hobby die is to have kids, yes young kids, aged 5 to 10 develop an interest in trains. This is perfect for them. It literally has bells and whistles! It is rugged, I can't see how it doesn't have play value. This is what we need, a manufacturer to produce TOYS that children want and will play with. Then when they are teens they'll fool around with scale modeling, then when they are in their 20s they will go off and get educated, married and have a family. Then in their 40s they will remember those toys and buy for their children and get into scale model railroading themselves.
My hope is that this Lionel offering works well and can stand up to play. Lionel always has been a toy train manufacturer. This is a toy. Let's celebrate what it is and what it can do! $500 isn't a lot for a toy for a kid these days. A decent bicycle is a couple of hundred, and we're always buying phones, tablets and computers for them at outrageous prices.
I won't buy but I think it is a wonderful thing.
GregW66
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Greg WilliamsCanterbury, NBCanadahttps://www.gregstrainyard.com/
Who is going to buy the HO Polar Express? Grand Pop has two little people who will delight at seeing the train chug around the Christmas Tree. I'm actually impressed that Lionel actually scaled down their tinplate engine for the train, although in typical Hi rail fashion, the tender seems oversized. Trainworld will be discounting them and i will buy one. Wouldn't be surprised to see it migrate over to my "scale" layout in the basement...Little people have magical power.
Seriously, this is HO Hi-rail, not intended for scale modelers, any more than Thomas or Chuggington are. If I wasn't a grandparent, I would never consider it.
wjstix It's perhaps a symptom of how good model rail products have gotten that so many people think of the HO Polar Express 2-8-4 as being crude and toy-like. 30 years ago, HO modellers would have been snapping these up to re-letter them for Pere Marquette and other railroads that had Berkshires...and back then, they wouldn't have come with DCC and sound.
It's perhaps a symptom of how good model rail products have gotten that so many people think of the HO Polar Express 2-8-4 as being crude and toy-like. 30 years ago, HO modellers would have been snapping these up to re-letter them for Pere Marquette and other railroads that had Berkshires...and back then, they wouldn't have come with DCC and sound.
Make that 60 years ago and you may be right - 30 years ago, the level of detail was not much less than some of today´s offerings.
I don´t think Lionel intends to enter the market of scale models with the Polar Express. My guess it is intended for those who do not have the room to set up an O27 gauge PE or want their kids to see the PE run on their HO scale empire in the basement/garage/attic/spare bedroom.
This has been a "Project for when I have nothing else" for me. I mean, at least buying the Berkshire Bachman makes in Undec, and creating my own decals for it.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Pass here. I have no doubt Lionel can make good HO stuff, Ive owned some. But this? This is a Christmas train set. A hollywood train. Not ment to be for someone like moi. Kids will love it! Sure beats the Lego version. It goes with the movie.
Walthers, and now Lionel have both made PM sets. Neither belong in the PM genre unfortunately. So what next? Tyco gonna make a PM set out of a Milwaukee Hiawatha?
Attn model manufacturers: Can we please have a real PM train set in HO? PLEASE??????
M636C While looking for something else entirely, I found a 2015 "American Flyer" (Lionel S Gauge) catalog. Lionel are offering the Polar Express in S gauge as well and the illustration looks exactly the same as that supposed to be the HO model. I sspect that the same photograph was used for both scales. However, the Berkshire is being offered in prototype road names as well, with the same coarse moulded on detail but with a more realistic pilot and pilot beam. The C&O model has the wrong configuration of sandbox and dome (should be reversed from the Nickel Plate version). Of course S scale isn't as competitive a market as HO, and the coarse detail might be regarded as acceptable. But Lionel might try to do the same in HO.... M636C
While looking for something else entirely, I found a 2015 "American Flyer" (Lionel S Gauge) catalog. Lionel are offering the Polar Express in S gauge as well and the illustration looks exactly the same as that supposed to be the HO model. I sspect that the same photograph was used for both scales.
However, the Berkshire is being offered in prototype road names as well, with the same coarse moulded on detail but with a more realistic pilot and pilot beam. The C&O model has the wrong configuration of sandbox and dome (should be reversed from the Nickel Plate version).
Of course S scale isn't as competitive a market as HO, and the coarse detail might be regarded as acceptable.
But Lionel might try to do the same in HO....
M636C
Most of the American Flyer line are Toy Train quality - deep flanges, very large couplers truck mounted, and fairly coarse/oversized detail.
Better detailed S scale models are made. The S Helper line, now being reintroduced by MTH has better detail and both HiRail and Scale wheels are available. American Models is somewhat less detailed than MTH, but much better than American Flyer. It is also available in HiRail and Scale wheel versions. KaDee couplers are available in S scale. There are also numerous small manufacturers of scale equipment in S scale.
First,I'm amaze how they scaled down a Lionel 3 rail locomotive.
While I won't be buying any for obvious reasons I still think these sets will be enjoyed by many.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hi IRONROOSTER
No great surprise there since the lionel "O" seems to be primaraly aimed at childeren or the older inner child.
Would not have been that hard to do the flip top with hobo etc on top of the coach?? in HO but that might have been to fragile for childeren to play with.
But the quoted price is way over the top a longer proper model passanger train
With all the good bits could be had for that.
regards John
I am going end up picking up the set in Ho. Yes the locomotive might not be as detailed as a prototype berkshire but it does represent the 3d movie locomotive pretty well.
Sir Madog $ 249.99 for the loco, plus $149.99 for the three-car set, plus track - adds up to $450 minimum. That´s more than the O gauge set, which certainly has more "play value" than the scaled down version call HO scale.
$ 249.99 for the loco, plus $149.99 for the three-car set, plus track - adds up to $450 minimum. That´s more than the O gauge set, which certainly has more "play value" than the scaled down version call HO scale.
I expect that the discounted price will be $100-150 less for engine and 3 car pack.
But I agree that the O27 has more play value.
Looking at the pics Lionel has on their website
http://www.lionel.com/products/the-polar-expresstm-berkshire-ho-scale-locomotive-and-tender-with-remote-6-58018/
It looks like the engine is a scaled down 3-rail model. Same "toy train" level of detail. It's an interesting approach, and not meant to compete with the Bachmann model at all.
While modeler types will look down at the cast on parts, horrible (to us) cab detail, and no front coupler, it will appeal to parents buying it for children. No fiddly bits to break off. It has that durable "Lionel" look. The coaches have the same look to them. It may be surprising how well this sells.