Mainline Modeler still scrapping with UP/CSX

[lupo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

First the Union Pacific Railroad did not decide to license its logos. The Union Pacific Corporation did. The Union Pacific is not just a railroad. During its history it has been a land developer, a communications company, mining company, a cement plant, ski resorts, an air freight company, several trucking companies, a freight forwarder, a logistics company, a software developer and many others. Probably nobody will confuse a model engine with a real one. But if a truck pulls up in front of your house to deliver an express package and it has a UP shield and a "UP Express Delivery" on the side one could reasonably think that that truck was affiliated with the UP. If your company is solicited by "UP Information Technologies" concerning logistics tracking software would you assume it was affiliated with the UP? (one of the two above examples could actually happen, one is fake).
The UP licensed its logos to protect ALL of its business activities from being infringed upon. If it licenses part, it licenses all. That includes logos used on model railroad equipment.

The fallen flags are "fallen" in your minds only. They still exist in contracts and legal obligations and in some cases as corporate entities. Regardless of whether they paint a boxcar or not. The American Regrigerator Transit company is long gone correct?

Wrong.

UP's rebuilt reefers have ARMH reporting marks, those were marks used by ART. The UP has to uphold thousands of contracts written by the "Rio Grande", how can you say they aren't the "Rio Grande"? Oldsmobile is a "fallen flag". Try marketing something with the "Oldsmobile" emblem on it and see how fast a horde of GM lawyers show up asking, "What's in your wallet?"

Thanks [tup] now that is a clear explanation,
should be on top of every "don't know what to post let's kick the Union Pacific" topic
thanks!

QUOTE: bigboy4884:
I'm not saying I agree with UP and CSX's actions. I just don't really care. As long as I get UP models, I'm happy.

[#ditto]

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

UP's rebuilt reefers have ARMH reporting marks, those were marks used by ART.

I saw some ex-FGE reefers with ARMH reporting marks a few years ago. However, all of the rebuilt UP reefers I have seen have ARMN reporting marks.

[dehusman]

First the Union Pacific Railroad did not decide to license its logos. The Union Pacific Corporation did. The Union Pacific is not just a railroad. During its history it has been a land developer, a communications company, mining company, a cement plant, ski resorts, an air freight company, several trucking companies, a freight forwarder, a logistics company, a software developer and many others. Probably nobody will confuse a model engine with a real one. But if a truck pulls up in front of your house to deliver an express package and it has a UP shield and a "UP Express Delivery" on the side one could reasonably think that that truck was affiliated with the UP. If your company is solicited by "UP Information Technologies" concerning logistics tracking software would you assume it was affiliated with the UP? (one of the two above examples could actually happen, one is fake).
The UP licensed its logos to protect ALL of its business activities from being infringed upon. If it licenses part, it licenses all. That includes logos used on model railroad equipment.

The fallen flags are "fallen" in your minds only. They still exist in contracts and legal obligations and in some cases as corporate entities. Regardless of whether they paint a boxcar or not. The American Regrigerator Transit company is long gone correct?

Wrong.

UP's rebuilt reefers have ARMH reporting marks, those were marks used by ART. The UP has to uphold thousands of contracts written by the "Rio Grande", how can you say they aren't the "Rio Grande"? Oldsmobile is a "fallen flag". Try marketing something with the "Oldsmobile" emblem on it and see how fast a horde of GM lawyers show up asking, "What's in your wallet?"

[chutton01]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

I'm not saying I agree with UP and CSX's actions. I just don't really care. As long as I get UP models, I'm happy.

Well, if some distributors don't want to pay the licensing fee, then you may not get their models in UP or predecessors...
And to go to a extreme (but certainly thinkable) case, what if UP said no manufacturer can create any further models with UP (or predessor) markings (perhaps because they want to market an exclusive 'toy train' line of their own). So you wouldn't be getting any more UP models, and I guess you wouldn't be so happy then...

[Anonymous]

JPM335, I certainly am not asking you or anyone to stop modeling the UP or CSX in reference to the above. I am just stating that I think all of this is a ridiculous and stupid endeavor and is helpful to no one and bad PR for the heads of these companies. Just because they are stupid, doesn't mean their whole company is or should be made to look stupid by them!

[Anonymous]

well, im not going to stop buying CSX models, although i dont endorse this. a few dollars more isnt really a huge deal, not that i enjoy price spikes but like i said, im not stopping modelling what i like just because a few execs are bieng idiots.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

Jonathan,

I'm assuming you mean adding $10.00 to a high priced engine. Would be a bummer to tack $10 onto a athearn blue box box car. lol

I have no problem with UP and CSX wanting to license their logo, but to require licenses for "fallen flags" ie: SP, DRGW, etc etc is ludicrous.

[#ditto].

[Anonymous]

Being happy is what it's all about!

[Anonymous]

I'm not saying I agree with UP and CSX's actions. I just don't really care. As long as I get UP models, I'm happy.

[Anonymous]

The fuss for me is that the idea of doing this is just plain STUPID! Who does this benefit? Why, after 75 years of there being model and toy trains using their logos, has this become an issue? It has nothing to do with the licensing fees, although I hate the idea of throwing money away on a stupid licensing fee. It's just plain corporate dumb think and creating bad publicity for for the big wigs at UP and CSX, which they deserve. It sounds like it just a matter of time before the rest of the big rails will be getting aboard with this.

It certainly is within everyones right to go ahead and endorse UP and CSX's actions, if that is what you choose.

[Anonymous]

Jonathan,

I'm assuming you mean adding $10.00 to a high priced engine. Would be a bummer to tack $10 onto a athearn blue box box car. lol

I have no problem with UP and CSX wanting to license their logo, but to require licenses for "fallen flags" ie: SP, DRGW, etc etc is ludicrous.

[Anonymous]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Me being a big fan of UP and CSX, $10.00 more on a model isn't a big deal. I wish everyone would get over it. Besides, it's only a matter of time before BNSF, NS, KCS, CP, FEC, and CN start doing this too.

[mecovey]

Go Hundman!

[Anonymous]

I find it wonderful that people are still upset with Union Pacific's decision to require licensing the use of their trademark to model railroad manufacturers! It appears that CSX is getting on board with this stupid idea also, as can be read about in the November Issue of Mainline Modeler. Two of the five letters to the editor deal with this issue and the Publisher's Comments in Mainline Commentary "Give No Quarter" to the Union Pacific over this issue.

Made especially clear is the "Fallen Flags" debate. These flags have fallen and are no longer in use. Unless being used in day to day service, the truth appears that they have become public property and are not Union Pacific's, CSX's or anyone's except American History.

My opinion on this whole matter is; if you have enough money, are stupid enough and are a bully, you can waste everyones time and money!

I am glad to see a publication take a stand! Maybe there is some courage left in American business!