Has anyone acquired or seen one of the new re-issued Bachmann 4-6-0 steam engines?
When last released a few years ago in the Spectrum line of Bachmann steam engines I thought it was the most detailed of thier North American steam engines.
I see that the released model is no longer a Spectrum model, it is now a Standard line engine with the boiler details being moleded on rather than individual applications. I hope that is the only difference between the two versions. I would hate to see Bachmann release a toy grade release in place of the excellent Spectrum model which was the first version.
Until sometime today, there was a thread on the Bachmann Forum about that loco, but the thread, for some reason, was removed. The loco is basically the same as the original version, but has cast-on details and a three pole motor.
I have two of the original ones, but modernised them somewhat:
Wayne
don7 it is now a Standard line engine with the boiler details being moleded on rather than individual applications. I hope that is the only difference between the two versions. I would hate to see Bachmann release a toy grade release in place of the excellent Spectrum model which was the first version.
it is now a Standard line engine with the boiler details being moleded on rather than individual applications. I hope that is the only difference between the two versions. I would hate to see Bachmann release a toy grade release in place of the excellent Spectrum model which was the first version.
By your account, they just did. So they may as well keep going down the slide.
I just wandered into the train room and gawked at my "old" Bachmann 4-6-0. Yup, a real cutie.
Sorry to see it go.
Ed
Looking at the Bachmann website, they appear to have phased out the Spectrum line. Fewer steam locomotives and most that are still listed for Spectrum are soldout.
Paul
IRONROOSTER Looking at the Bachmann website, they appear to have phased out the Spectrum line. Fewer steam locomotives and most that are still listed for Spectrum are soldout. Paul
Which is a real pity.
I wish they phased out the standard line and stayed with the spectrum line
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The Bach-Man does clear discussions if they cross the line. Sometimes, a kid or usually an old timer, goes too far. Seen it happen a number of times. The discussion was looking ok but I was away for a couple days.
No doubt, Bachmann will move more to Standard to cut cost. Their cost, not our cost probably.
The Bach-Man did say three pole motor like the 2-8-0.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
doctorwayne Until sometime today, there was a thread on the Bachmann Forum about that loco, but the thread, for some reason, was removed. The loco is basically the same as the original version, but has cast-on details and a three pole motor. I have two of the original ones, but modernised them somewhat: Wayne
Yes, it would seem that the golden age of plastic/die cast high detail steam locos has come and gone.
Strictly on the issue of detail, Most of the Bachmann Spectrum offerings over the last 15 years, and the Proto offerings stand out above all the others.
And the others are going down hill too. Broadway - generic 2-8-2's, 4-6-2's and 2-8-0's with cast on boiler detail. Most Broadway locos never reached the fine detail level of a Spectrum model anyway.
Athearn's offerings, while nice, are too few to even count.
MTH considers toy like oversized cast on detail important to make the models "handling friendly", and leaves off details that might get broken easily.
So what is Bachmann to do in a market that is facing higher prices and seems to have reached its limit for fine scale detail? They are doing what all the rest are already doing - giving up fine detail for sound and other electronic features.
One of the best models Bachmann ever made was the USRA Heavy 4-8-2. It was offered with a long list of proto specfic detail changes for different roadnames, ran well, looks great - BUT - they are "fragile" to some. The pickup wipers don't like derailments, they have lots of applied plastic details on a die cast metal boiler, and, with the possible exception of the C&O version, they just are not "famous" enough or "flashy" enough for the current market.
Which is great for me, I have large fleet of them, dollar cost average price less than $100 each.
With the passing of Lee Riley, and the current market trends, you may not see too many more great Spectrum models.......
But then again, considering how they always got bashed on these forums, maybe Bachmann is doing the smart thing by returning to more "entry level" or "budget priced" models.
Yes, my view is biased by several facts:
I have no interest in DCC or sound - so BLI and MTH are not on my radar.
I don't mind having to make a little adjustment here and there.
I'm a kit basher and a builder, I was doing model train repairs commercially at age 15........
I can pick up a model without breaking the parts off......
I think I will head down to Star Hobby real soon and buy a few more of the black box Spectrum locos still on their shelves..........
Sheldon
Yeah, the original Bachmann Ten-Wheelers had a good amount of freestanding details. Here's one of mine before I modified it:
...and here's one before painting:
The boiler is from a Varney Ten-Wheeler with its cab removed, while the new cab and lifting injectors are from a Bachmann Consolidation. Details are from Cal-Scale and PSC, along with some scratchbuilt stuff.
I also modified the tender, shortening it somewhat and then cutting it lengthwise with a handsaw to make it narrower - as new, it was wider than the cab:
With added weight (all three air tanks are lead-filled brass tubing, and there's more lead in the smokebox and under the cab) these are pretty-decent pullers.
I still have the original boilers and cabs laying around here somewhere.
Wayne,
I really love your modernized version, what a great project.
Maybe one day if I get the time, I will follow your lead on this. The ATLANTIC CENTRAL could really use a couple modern Ten Wheelers - and brass B&O B-18's are rare and expensive.........
And now it seems unlikely any manfacturer will fill that void any time soon.
Thanks for your kind words, Sheldon. I'm not overly concerned about manufacturers simplifying their production methods, as long as the locomotives run well. Many modellers seem to want more details but then complain that the locos are "too fragile". I've seen a couple which are, but I think the majority of problems are due to improper handling. I try to make the details rugged enough to withstand careful handling (brass parts soldered together and other details either with mounting pins epoxied into holes in the body or held in place with wire "clamps" and "pipe hangers". My locos don't get handled all that often, but even the modified ones are easy to disassemble for maintenance.Perhaps the sparser factory-applied details will encourage more loco detailing and kitbashing projects.
What I don't get is the price tag ($299 on B'mann site). Why would I spend so much money for toy-quality detail? I'm glad I bought one a few years back. I would much prefer less details (that I can add) than molded on details. If I was looking for one, I would probably look for used spectrum, a brass or an MDC. The B'mann 2-6-0 is a lot more appealing and sold at a much more reasonable price.
Simon
doctorwayne Thanks for your kind words, Sheldon. I'm not overly concerned about manufacturers simplifying their production methods, as long as the locomotives run well. Many modellers seem to want more details but then complain that the locos are "too fragile". I've seen a couple which are, but I think the majority of problems are due to improper handling. I try to make the details rugged enough to withstand careful handling (brass parts soldered together and other details either with mounting pins epoxied into holes in the body or held in place with wire "clamps" and "pipe hangers". My locos don't get handled all that often, but even the modified ones are easy to disassemble for maintenance.Perhaps the sparser factory-applied details will encourage more loco detailing and kitbashing projects. Wayne
I agree. We can only hope that "modeling" is not a lost hobby. I too avoid un-necessary handling - they are looking at and running.........
A busy life helping others and working hard has kept me from doing as much modeling as I would like - but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
And I have lots of projects - some underway, some still in boxes.
snjroy What I don't get is the price tag ($299 on B'mann site). Why would I spend so much money for toy-quality detail? I'm glad I bought one a few years back. I would much prefer less details (that I can add) than molded on details. If I was looking for one, I would probably look for used spectrum, a brass or an MDC. The B'mann 2-6-0 is a lot more appealing and sold at a much more reasonable price. Simon
Bachmann's retail prices are more inflated than the other brands - street prices are all that matters.
Bachmann is still better priced than the others.
Toy quality detail? - maybe so - just like a Broadway Limited USRA Mikado for $349.99 - same degree of molded on and generic details for all roadnames.
I wanted a Bachmann Texas & Pacific steamer--until I saw the recent 4-6-0 photos. I wouldn't buy that engine at any price.
Regarding BLI's offerings, there are some I tried in the past but cannot be happy with due to the lack of correct details, but at the same time there are others that are really nicely done.
The BLI PRR H10s 2-8-0 is really well done, and when I think back to past offerings of PRR 2-8-0's like the Bowser ones, this one is a no-brainer. I'm not even a Pennsy fan and generally do not like Belpaire boilers, but the H10s is a neat little engine and a lot of fun to play with.
John
doctorwayne Yeah, the original Bachmann Ten-Wheelers had a good amount of freestanding details. Here's one of mine before I modified it: ...and here's one before painting: The boiler is from a Varney Ten-Wheeler with its cab removed, while the new cab and lifting injectors are from a Bachmann Consolidation. Details are from Cal-Scale and PSC, along with some scratchbuilt stuff. I also modified the tender, shortening it somewhat and then cutting it lengthwise with a handsaw to make it narrower - as new, it was wider than the cab: With added weight (all three air tanks are lead-filled brass tubing, and there's more lead in the smokebox and under the cab) these are pretty-decent pullers. I still have the original boilers and cabs laying around here somewhere. Wayne
As usual the level of detail on this engine is better than most of the brass steam engines I have seen.
One of the best detailed engines I have ever seen, your craftsmanship is superb.
I was very lucky to have picked up a few extra of the Spektrum 4-6-0's and put them away for use at a later time. I am really drawn to the low version model, it really was suitable for either freight or passenger use.
Thanks for your gracious remarks, Don. While this old Akane's not a Ten Wheeler, it does have 10 drivers:
I re-worked it to match a CNR prototype for a friend:
doctorwayne Thanks for your gracious remarks, Don. While this old Akane's not a Ten Wheeler, it does have 10 drivers: I re-worked it to match a CNR prototype for a friend: Wayne
I have a couple of old Akane steamers, they will run till the end of time with a bit of care. They were not the best detailed.
On the other hand, the CN locomotive, after your added details and parts conversion is one of the most detailed steam locomotives I have seen (again).
Your work is so detailed that if viewing a photograph it would be hard to tell if it was a model or the real thing.
There were two versions of the Bachmann 4-6-0 in the Spectrum line.
There was a 52" driver set, it appeared to be an older version. Plus there was the high driver version with the 63" drivers. It certainly appears to be a more modern style.
don7 snjroy What I don't get is the price tag ($299 on B'mann site). Why would I spend so much money for toy-quality detail? I'm glad I bought one a few years back. I would much prefer less details (that I can add) than molded on details. If I was looking for one, I would probably look for used spectrum, a brass or an MDC. The B'mann 2-6-0 is a lot more appealing and sold at a much more reasonable price. Simon As I remember the Bachmann MSRP's were always on the high side. The actual street prices usually were heavily discounted. Back in the day of the eary Spectrum releases there was one E-Bay vendor who specialized in the Bachmann line who had great prices. If you were lucky you got some great deals on auction items, while I did get some great deals I also remember watching some auction items were the bidding had taken a turn to a show down between bidders and someitems sold really high on occassion.
The Favorite Spot is a Bachmann vendor I have bought from on ebay. Bid or Buy Now. I get email updates a couple times a year from them about Bachmann trains.
The low driver version was always my favorite of the two.
Cost
Take a look at MR webpage for the new Bachmann climax Cast metal $399 DCC,no sound. Maybe Bachmann deserves the criticism on past performance.
beartracks Cost Take a look at MR webpage for the new Bachmann climax Cast metal $399 DCC,no sound. Maybe Bachmann deserves the criticism on past performance.
Is this a response to my posts? Trainworld is selling the Bachmann Climax for $239.99 - or 40% off MSRP - AGAIN, Bachmann MSRP is more inflated than other brands. Bachmann is commonly sold at 40% off - other brands, not so much 25%, maybe 30%.
Past performance? I have about 35 Bachmann locos, only three had problems which Bachmann took care of with replacement locos - all are great runners and lookers.
I have seven BLI locos, 4 had problems, 2 very serious problems, BLI offered no real support.
My experiance:
Bachmann - less than 10% failure rate - all problems covered under warranty
BLI - 57% failure rate - no warranty help
Has every Bachmann product in the last 30 years been perfect? No. Same is true of EVERY other manufacturer - some winners, some lossers.
ATLANTIC CENTRALPast performance? I have about 35 Bachmann locos, only three had problems which Bachmann took care of with replacement locos - all are great runners and lookers. I have seven BLI locos, 4 had problems, 2 very serious problems, BLI offered no real support. My experiance: Bachmann - less than 10% failure rate - all problems covered under warranty BLI - 57% failure rate - no warranty help Has every Bachmann product in the last 30 years been perfect? No. Same is true of EVERY other manufacturer - some winners, some lossers.
My experience, BLI 6 locos, 3 serious problems. Bachmann, 10 locos 3 minor problems. Bachmann is no worse than any other manufacturer, better than some. If I added Bowser, Athearn and Intermountain into that equation, Bachmann comes out looking pretty good.
Toylike? I hate that terminology. They are all "toys" out of the box. Look at some of Dr. Waynes work and you can see the difference. I've also seen pictures of some of Sheldon's work. Again you can see the difference.
I think that the BLI PRR H10 is probably their best out of box offering to date, and yes it had electronic problems out of the box.
Higher MSRP? MSRP is meaningless. Yes you will find outlets that price Bachman at MSRP, but shop around. I never pay MSRP.
If the detailed Spectrum of the recent old days (1990’s – 2000’s) is indeed dead, then that is a sad thing. The drive towards quality (better detail and running characteristics) is now moving in the opposite direction. Not something that I like to see.
In HO scale, Bachmann was/is the only company making small steam that is well detailed, inexpensive and runs well out of the box. For all the talk about poor quality, Spectrum Bachmann steam runs better than most small brass steam and is better detailed (or at least on par) for quite a bit less money. At the prices they sold at, it was possible to just buy another one if they didn’t run right. It was also possible to use them as the basis for kit bashing or super detailing without breaking the bank (nice job Wayne).
I had always presumed that I would be able to buy more if I needed them. I have designed a layout predicated on the running of small steam and the thought of not being able to replace Spectrum locos as they break or wear out is not too comforting.
I think that the hobby has lost a flagship line for those of us who chose to model steam short lines. I always recommend Spectrum to new modelers entering the hobby who want to model steam.
I suspect that my appreciation for these products has been intensified by my recent forays into painting and fixing brass locos. After these experiences, I will definitely miss the Spectrum line.
Oh well……
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
wojosa31I've also seen pictures of some of Sheldon's work.
You belong to the chosen few - I have yet to see him post a picture here!
Downgrading a product from separately applied details to cast-on details escapes my understanding. It may have been OK with a real el-cheapo entry level product in the 1960´s, but certainly not in the 21st century and at a price way beyond a kid could possibly earn on his paper route!
Bachmann´s ways will always remain a mystery to me. They release a loco into the US market which proves to be a real big seller in the UK, but is not available there. The quality of their products show a tremendous regional spread - while products marketed in Europe are usually of up-market quality, there seem to be a hit/miss situation in the US. Quite mysterious!
Sir Madog wojosa31 I've also seen pictures of some of Sheldon's work. You belong to the chosen few - I have yet to see him post a picture here! Downgrading a product from separately applied details to cast-on details escapes my understanding. It may have been OK with a real el-cheapo entry level product in the 1960´s, but certainly not in the 21st century and at a price way beyond a kid could possibly earn on his paper route! Bachmann´s ways will always remain a mystery to me. They release a loco into the US market which proves to be a real big seller in the UK, but is not available there. The quality of their products show a tremendous regional spread - while products marketed in Europe are usually of up-market quality, there seem to be a hit/miss situation in the US. Quite mysterious!
wojosa31 I've also seen pictures of some of Sheldon's work.
I can only speak to the issue of US market products, but Bachmann quality has been on the steady climb overall for the last 20 years. That said, some specific items are superior, other specfic items have been problematic........
But speaking to the defect rate amoung the better items, Bachmann has gotten consistantly better over the last 10-15 years and is no worse than BLi or othrs.
Again, I have:
10 - USRA heavy 4-8-2
4 - 2-6-6-2
7 - 2-8-0
5 - 2-8-4 converted to 2-8-2
2 - 4-6-0
2 - EM1 2-8-8-4
3 - USRA 2-10-2
All run good, only three duds which Bachmann replaced.
Pictures of my locos will have to wait until I get home because I can't figure out how to link them to photobucket using this silly tablet. But I have posted anumber of pictures of my various ATLANTIC CENTRAL paint schemes, tender swaps and kit bash projects.
don7 Has anyone acquired or seen one of the new re-issued Bachmann 4-6-0 steam engines?
I forgot to ask if there was a preference over one version or the other between the low driver 52" version and the high driver 63" version?
I would opt for the low driver version myself, it seems to be a bit sleeker that the high driver version, also looks older.
I never owned a loco Bachmann markets in the US, but several from Liliput, Bachmann´s continental European brand. Those were high quality locos and cars, equaling much more expansive brands!