ricktrains4824Set the loco on a hard, smooth surface, like a mirror, and try to slip a price of note paper underneath each wheel, if it slides under without your having to lift the locomotive up, you have a bent axle. That will cause derailments sporadically, and almost always on a turnout.
Usually not a bent axle, but a warped/twisted truck or even a warped or twisted frame....trucks not seated firmly on the bolster's, a wire/driveline preventing horizontal/vertical/lateral movement of the truck, causing one wheel to pick the guard rail. Wheel sets not seated in bearings properly, bottom cover not on properly. You have to be more meticulous when checking all above......looks aren't going to work!
Good Luck!
Frank
i don't see a lock on the iPad Photobucket app. Does this work?
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/gdelmoro/Mobile%20Uploads/33734eef3dee911792f2e14337438147_zpshm93x88i.jpg
Gary
A few more
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/gdelmoro/edb9553081c6033876ad3dba67f3ed11_zpsiczqsu63.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/gdelmoro/56bea9a4e450b47b72d1ee8843e8de8e_zpsxkvspzb5.jpg
gdelmoroTurnouts are Atlas snap switch #8? Double Curve installed on a 24" curve. Not a wye.
I suspect this might also be part of Your problem... with a longer wheel base truck, like a three axle...when entering/exiting a curve where a turnout is, the part of the truck that leading/trailing is still coming out or going into the curve is forcing the wheels to lift out of the rails. A four axle won't normally do that, but a six axle's center wheel would be under pressure to want to follow the curve. If You were able to add a short straight length of track before/after the points going into/out of the curve, that would not happen.
Something to also look at, above...can't tell from Your pic'.
EDIT: One way to check for that, is to follow Richhotrain's advice and try to slide said engine into/out of turnout/curve and see if You can do that without a bind.....a bind and or restriction will indicate what I tried to explain above.
gdelmoro ONLY my Paragon 3 GP9 derails at a turnout in the trailing point direction. The Atlas 2F & 2R (RS-1) and 282 Mikado do not. Something is lifting the rear wheels causing the 1st wheel set to jump over the rail. The turnout is a double curve Code 100 Atlas. I found that there was a bump as the wheels transverse do the frog so I filed the roadbed in that area down. And ran a wheel set over with no bump up. Still derails. PS: Wheelsets on loco and track in gage.
ONLY my Paragon 3 GP9 derails at a turnout in the trailing point direction. The Atlas 2F & 2R (RS-1) and 282 Mikado do not. Something is lifting the rear wheels causing the 1st wheel set to jump over the rail. The turnout is a double curve Code 100 Atlas. I found that there was a bump as the wheels transverse do the frog so I filed the roadbed in that area down. And ran a wheel set over with no bump up. Still derails. PS: Wheelsets on loco and track in gage.
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned, but I have had high frogs cause derailments. Check by holding a strait edge across the rails.
Another problem I had was cured by putting a turnout on the table with a short piece of track extending the turnout and makeing the curve slightly sharper. I found out that the truck was hitting a part of the loco. The piston I think?
Hope you get your problem solved.
Lee
In the past, whenever a problem would occur on a turnout, I would do everything in my power to "fix" the turnout. But, over time, I began to focus more on the locomotives that were derailing. I realized that sometimes it was the locomotive, not the turnout. If you are running 10 different locos, for example, and only one is derailing, chances are very good that it is the locomotive.
Rich
Alton Junction
thanks to everyone for all the great information. Even though the derail is happening in the trailing point direction (the direction the photo is taken from) I'm still going to fix the track as Mel points out.
I checked and re-checked the locomotive. Can't slide paper under any wheels, all wheel sets are in gage, trucks move freely.
I think I will also change the atlas turnout to a PECO and add the short pieces as suggested.
I ran my 2-8-2 Mikado, RS-1 & 2-8-8-2 through without a problem and I filed the bottom of the frog down a little more. It seems to be working now but I'm not sure how I fixed it.
You people are the best!!
gdelmoroI ran my 2-8-2 Mikado, RS-1 & 2-8-8-2 through without a problem
From what I see in Your new photo what is more than likely happening is what I tried to explain in My post, like what Mel advised.
That Mike and the other steamer probably have flangeless center drivers.....RS-1 should be a four axle unit. So won't be a problem. It's the six axle units, that don't play well with that kind of track arrangement. It more than likely, is picking the points. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea, to also file them, so there is a better wheel flange transition.
Take Care!
zstripe gdelmoro I ran my 2-8-2 Mikado, RS-1 & 2-8-8-2 through without a problem From what I see in Your new photo what is more than likely happening is what I tried to explain in My post, like what Mel advised. That Mike and the other steamer probably have flangeless center drivers.....RS-1 should be a four axle unit. So won't be a problem. It's the six axle units, that don't play well with that kind of track arrangement. It more than likely, is picking the points. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea, to also file them, so there is a better wheel flange transition. Take Care! Frank
gdelmoro I ran my 2-8-2 Mikado, RS-1 & 2-8-8-2 through without a problem
It might be the camera angle, but when I look just below the yellow arrow, where a short piece of track meets the ordinary turnout in the foreground, I see a distinct horizontal kink. It looks like the section of track between the two turnouts is a bit short for the job, and is straighter than the curve it is trying to follow. So, there's a sharp discontinuity in the curvature of the rails at this point. This could be your problem.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
That would support Frank's point that 6-axle diesels might well have a hard time negotiating that part of the layout, not only the turnout by the adjoining track leading into it.
RR_Mel Mr. Beasley You have a much better use of words to describe what I was pointing to with my arrows . . . . but the OP’s reply was that my red arrow is the wrong direction of travel. It’s very rare to have a derail in the opposite direction. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951 My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I see some rough looking rail joints below the turnout, like the gap is too big or the rail heights aren't even.
And yes a kink above the turnout.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
Mel,
The problem is as clear as a bell in that pic'.....any six axle loco would have a problem negotiating that track arrangement. That's what happens when You try to use a straight turnout in a curve...In My Opinion....to make it worse...they are point to point. If My memory serves me correctly, the rails also need to be insulated in between both sets of points and if they are...that would account for the kink.
Were it Me....lot of work or not, I would find a better way...
zstripe Mel, The problem is as clear as a bell in that pic'.....any six axle loco would have a problem negotiating that track arrangement. That's what happens when You try to use a straight turnout in a curve
The problem is as clear as a bell in that pic'.....any six axle loco would have a problem negotiating that track arrangement. That's what happens when You try to use a straight turnout in a curve
You people are outstanding!!
i will fix it all. When complete I'll send photos. May take a while.
gdelmoro You people are outstanding!! i will fix it all. When complete I'll send photos. May take a while.
You might also check the guard rail flangeway (the nubs sticking out of your nmra guage) on the left hand side in this photo, it looks a little tight.
http://s39.photobucket.com/user/gdelmoro/media/Mobile%20Uploads/33734eef3dee911792f2e14337438147_zpshm93x88i.jpg.html
No way to fix it. Had to rip up 2 switches and about 3 feet of track. Once I saw the track problem I was amazed anything made it over that ! Using a metal ruler this time!
gdelmoro No way to fix it. Had to rip up 2 switches and about 3 feet of track. Once I saw the track problem I was amazed anything made it over that ! Using a metal ruler this time!
richhotrain gdelmoro No way to fix it. Had to rip up 2 switches and about 3 feet of track. Once I saw the track problem I was amazed anything made it over that ! Using a metal ruler this time! Correction: Ripping up the 2 switches and about 3 feet of track is the way to fix it. Rich
Correction: Ripping up the 2 switches and about 3 feet of track is the way to fix it.
Ahhh! The joys of Model Railroading!
When you re-lay the track, take care and check for vertical curves as well. Six axle diesels dont like vertical curves either.
Sorry, what is a "Verticle Curve"?
gdelmoro Sorry, what is a "Verticle Curve"?
It is when the track curves up or down, vertically instead of horizontally. Gradual variations dont cause problems, but sharp dips or rises in the track in a curve can cause derailments and uncoupling of longer equipment.
Hi,
Being somewhat anal, I have to say the misbehaving loco is an SD, and not a GP, for they all had 4 axles........
That said, I just dealt with a mysterious derailment situation with a Stewart FT unit. To make a long story short, I eventually found that one of the axles would slip out of the truck and push upwards when it hit a bump (like a frog on an Atlas #8). Turns out the truck was not properly secured.....
Gotta say, it can be sooooo frustrating when one loco derails at a place where all the others get by just fine.........
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
This project is snowballing!! When I got the new turnouts they were a different size than the 20 Yr old atlas and I to straighten out the kinks in the track I needed to relocate track position so it looks like this now.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7w3ihfyr2tlur1i/File%20Mar%2023%2C%203%2032%2028%20PM.jpeg?dl=0
Your link..........
Btw: Having fun Yet!?......
AND I quote: "ONLY my Paragon 3 GP9 derails at a turnout in the trailing point direction."
After seeing how you have had to tear up that section of the layout, unless you plan on getting more six axel diesels I'd have sold the culprit on eBay.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up