Hello:
This topic has had lots of q's and a's before, but I would like to revisit it.
When I (re)started out in this hobby, I bought a NEW Walthers DC starter set that was really nice for only a bit of money. I loved it, until SOON ENOUGH I started seeing the wagons uncouple themselves and to my disappointment, there was nothing I could do about it.
Then someone suggested I but Kadee couplers and I tried that. -- NO GOOD - the instructions to replace the plastic couplers were more like the directions on how to do open heart surgery. I tried but the patient died soon enough.
I gave up on US/Can trains and concentrated on European makes where the problem is much less frequent.
I now read about Walthers Protomax magnetic couplers already attched on some pretty economical wagons (under USD$20 on sale).
Question: If I buy these wagons, am I going to go back to having wagons that come apart two days later or can I expect these wagons to couple and stay coupled at least most of the time (nothing is perfect, I know).
Thanks in advance to anyone who may be willing to share info on point.
Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:
https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club
The Protomax coupler is very similar to the KD #5 and will work just as well.
If you don't have one I highly suggest buying a KD coupler height gauge in order to ensure the couplers and trip pins are at their correct height.
Your cars should never come uncouple on their own.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Thank you, Larry.
So, what I think you are saying is that I should give the wagons with Protomax couplers a chance. Am I right?
If so, plastic couplers and Protomax couplers, do they get along? Or should I always have the same type of couplers to join?
As for the height adjustment, given the troubles I had in trying to replace the plastic couplers with the Kadee couplers I think for now I will just try new wagons with the protomax couplers and see what happens.
Baggio:
I've had good experience with Protomax couplers and have found no reason to replace them with Kadees. They work well with Kadee equipped cars. However, when I obtain a piece of rolling stock with plastic couplers off they come and on go Kadees.
Joe
If all of your cars are uncoupling spontaneously, that suggests a track problem in either elevation changes or curvature. Long cars on minimum radius curves will pop right off. A sudden transition from level track to a downhill section will cause couplers to separate.
Baggio what I think you are saying is that I should give the wagons with Protomax couplers a chance. Am I right?
Yes,I have several Walther cars with the protomax couplers and I never had any coupler issue with the Protomax.
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It would be best to change out those plastic couplers for either the Protomax or KD couplers.. That will stop the unwanted uncouplings.
Thr Protomax and the KD couplers works well together.
Sorry to be a bit of a pain...
Are "magnetic couplers" the same as "Protomax" magnetic couplers, in the sense that they are at least much better than plastic couplers?
Thanks.
dinwitty,Here's a Protomax.Its just as good as a KD.I have several Walthers cars that came equipped with these couplers and they work well with KDs.
https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-6001
Graham Line If all of your cars are uncoupling spontaneously, that suggests a track problem in either elevation changes or curvature. Long cars on minimum radius curves will pop right off. A sudden transition from level track to a downhill section will cause couplers to separate.
Those plastic couplers with the tiny plastic springs won't stay coupled on top notch track. So,I suggest starting there before blaming the track.
Baggio Sorry to be a bit of a pain... Are "magnetic couplers" the same as "Protomax" magnetic couplers, in the sense that they are at least much better than plastic couplers? Thanks.
"Magnetic couplers" means they can be uncoupled over magnets.
The KD and Protomax couplers are far superior to any of those plastic couplers.
You are not being a pain! The only stupid question is the one you don't ask. I can't remember how many times I have had to go back to the forums to ask for clarification on something that I didn't fully understand. Every time the members of the forums have answered my questions. Be warned, there are a few members who are a bit short in their answers, but just ignore them if they hit you the wrong way. The rest of us are here to help.
Regards
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thank you again, Larry, Dave and everyone else. .
It's very encoraging to read your answers and encouragement.
Interestingly enough, I thought "magnetic" couplers meant the couplers are magnetically attached to each other, so that they would not come apart easily,not simply that they come apart magnetically.
As for some difficult posters, so far I have not encountered any, but thanks for the tip.
Have a super weekend, everyone.
hon30critter Be warned, there are a few members who are a bit short in their answers, but just ignore them if they hit you the wrong way.
Be warned, there are a few members who are a bit short in their answers, but just ignore them if they hit you the wrong way.
Alton Junction
BaggioAs for the height adjustment, given the troubles I had in trying to replace the plastic couplers with the Kadee couplers I think for now I will just try new wagons with the protomax couplers and see what happens.
What problems exactly where you having? Kadee makes a coupler for every possible height variation. They even tell you which specific coupler to buy for a specific application.
This is a useful tool for determining proper coupler height:
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page206.htm
If all coupler heights are the same you have a track problem.
BMMECNYCIf all coupler heights are the same you have a track problem.
Let's change out those plastic couplers first and check their height before we confuse Baggio with what may or may not be a issue here..
KD #5s,#148s and Walthers Protomax should cover 99% of the cars and locomotives made. I know this simply because those are the couplers I use.
The Walther's Protomax couplers are a clone of the Kadee coupler. They might perform as well as Kadee's, but no better. All Kadee style couplers will uncouple at random unless all the couplers in a train are at the same height. If you have some couplers high and others low, the train will uncouple when it ain't supposed to. You need a coupler height gauge, which you can buy or make. You check all your cars against the gauge. Low couplers can be raised by putting a #6 flat washer under the trucks. High couplers can be lowered by filing down the bolsters or putting shims under the coupler box.
Once you have all your couplers at the proper height, you can check that the gladhands aren't so low as to hit the rails in turnouts. And check for missing knuckle springs. The little devils occasionally pop off the coupler and disappear. You can prevent this with a very tiny dab of Duco cement on each end of the spring to secure it to the knuckle. Emphasis very tiny.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Thank you, David for your very precise description on how to get the couplers to dance together. Much appreciated.
Whether I will be able to actually put your directions into practice, that may be a bit difficult. You see I like to think I have a good head on my shoulders, but I know that my hands ....
Regardless, I want to give Us and Can trains another try since I do enjoy having these locos and wagons on my (small) layout.
One question, unrelated,: how do I get a signature at the bottom of my name like David has?
I would like to have this website set out:
https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club:
Baggio, as others have stated, I don't think your couplers are the problem. More likely a track or installation issue. Possibly a combination.
Track problem is easy to determine, do the cars uncouple in the same location? If so look at the tracks.
If the uncoupling seems to be random, its likely a car problem. Take note of which cars uncouple and which ends of the cars uncouple. Then take a close look at th3 couplers that are suspect.
A KD coupler gauge is àn immense help here and is easy to use.
As far as adjusting coupler height, just as Dave stated washers can raise them, filing the bolsters can lower them. Except if they are truck mounted.
If truck mounted they can be swapped for "overset" or "underset" couplers to make the needed adjustment. You can also change out the wheel sets for different diameters. Note these tricks can also be used for body mounted couplers, but are your only options for truck mounted.
Generally speaking, mixing truck and body mounted couplers makes problems. Also truck mounted couplers are fine when the train is being pulled, but don't like being pushed. Body mounted works well in either direction.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
ruderunnerBaggio, as others have stated, I don't think your couplers are the problem. More likely a track or installation issue.
Seeing Baggio mention plastic couplers that's where I would start by replacing those couplers with KD or Protomax. Once changed over and in proper height the cars should stay coupled..If not then it would be time to investigate the track.
I have seen first hand what those crappy plastic couplers do even on perfectly laid track..
I recently got back into the hobby and with my shakey hands it took me a couple weeks to install my first coupler spring. The second one took less than 5 min.
There are only 8 moving parts to a Kadee #5 and four of those, the knuckle, trip pin, spring and body are already assembled. Shims are a matter of buying Kadee washers, or styrene for the car underbody. You absolutely need the gauge. If you have to file anything, remember, you can't put it back so go slowly and check your work.
I've seen heart surgery, even had some myself and this ain't it.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
First of all: HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY TO EVERYONE!!
Thanks again for the suggestions.
I do believe the problem is the plastic couplers since there is no pattern as to when the wagons become undone and the small layout was all flat on a table using the track that came with Walthers Trainline set (great track, by the way).
To avoid going crazy, for now at least, I will simply buy some wagons that are not too expensive with Protomax magnetic couplers and see how that goes. If the result is good, I will then keep going. The only issue will be to see if the Protomax couplers will stick to the loco. The latest loco I bought, an economical one with a Via logo on it has "magnetic" couplers. If you like, you can see what it looks like by scrolling down to the bottom of my club web home page - the url is set out in my last post).
Cheers everyone. It's darn cold today in Toronto -21C (but -31C with windchill).
On the right hand side of the "trains" display, close to the top, is a place to fiddle with your Profile and your Settings. Click on Settings and fill out the "signature" block. My signature block reads thusly:
You would of course want to use your own name and your own blog URL.
Thank you, David. I tried to add a signature; let's see what happens.
Getting there, but no hyperlink...
EUREKA! It works.
Really happy that you asked this question as also returning to the hobby but this time choosing something well out of my comfort zone The question of couplers has risen as why the majority of the stock that I'm buying appears to have Kadee couplers but some seem to have the manufacturer s own take on a coupling. Can I add a quick question of my own please. although i'm only at early stages yet and not laid track do I have to replace these own couplers with kadees and if so what is best... 5 or 148?
thanks Mike
BaggioThe only issue will be to see if the Protomax couplers will stick to the loco. The latest loco I bought, an economical one with a Via logo on it has "magnetic" couplers.
The couplers are not magnetic. The trip pin (the bit sticking out of the bottom) is made of metal, which allows the couplers to open magnetically. Kadee's, Protomax, etc all have the same feature. There is no magnetic attraction between the couplers.
Thank you for clarifying the point, BM.
I was hoping for a magnetic effect, but such is life. Marklin children's trains have nice magnetic couplers that work very well - I have never had one wagon go his merrry way.
Baggio,Both the KD and Protomax couplers can be uncoupled by a magnet hench the "magnetic" the trip pins is the method used for magnitic uncoupling.
Once the KD or Protomax coupler is at the correct height they will not come uncoupled even if there is a slight dip in the track.
I wish you lived near me.. I would have you to meet me at the club and I would teach you the basics of installing KD or Protomax couplers.
Instead maybe this will help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ1f3ZT6qgk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RauSgtoocGE
Thank you very much, Larry.
You're quite welcome.. I only wish I thought of those videos sooner..