Having read and reread all the repleys to my first question,I will replace all troublesome coulpers with "real" kadees.
I'm haveing a real time trying to get the coulper to together. I put the spring on the cover,the shank in the spring,and then can't get the box/bottom on. My fingers are too fat, or I,m doing it wrong.
is there a better way? I'm just about ready to toss the whole pakage and buy whiskers
Turn the car bottom side up. Place the bronze centering spring in the coupler box. Hold the coupler "gladhand" up. Place coupler in the centering spring and over the post. Insert screw into coupler box lid. Place lid over box, and start screw with right size screwdriver. Do not glue lid to box. Tighten screw until coupler jams, then back off enough that the coupler swings freely from side to side. Lubricate installed coupler with a puff of powdered graphite.
If necessary make a car holding cradle so the car stays upside down hands off.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Exactly why I have been using the whisker couplers and the #242 box.
Mike.
My You Tube
Depending on the model, it can take a few tries to get everything together. I've been installing them for 30 years and it's still that way. I suspect as time goes on, the "whiskers" ones will become the standard and the old bronze spring will be phased out.
You can also buy a foam cradle. Check out the Walthers catalogue / website.
I agree with the suggestion to use the relatively new whisker couplers rather than the old reliable #5s. They do simplify installation. But of course if you have invested in the #5s you certainly don't want to throw them out because once installed they will give you good service. Each manufacturer uses a different coupler box/cover but ironically the only brand I've come across that didn't readily accept a #5 or the whisker equivalent is Kadee freight cars. They come with the smaller sized coupler and apparently they didn't think anyone would want to replace those with the larger couplers. If that was their thinking, they were wrong. I prefer the larger couplers even though I know they are out of scale and I don't like mixing the smaller couplers with the larger ones.
My biggest problem with KDs is when I have to replace the little coil springs. I always figure I'll need 3 of them because 2 are going to end up on the floor. Good luck finding them.
Yup, you've discovered why that all purchases of Kadee couplers I've made since they came out with them have been the 'whisker' type. Trying to get all the peices in place with a classic #5, even worse if fitting them to an existing coupler box like an Athearn snap on kind, can be an exercise in frustration. Even after doing hundreds of them, it still can be tedious.
I haven't tried this, but I suppose one fo thsoe flexible "helping hands" things with the alligator clips could work. Clip the coupler to one of the arms, then hold the car (with the spring set in place) and carefuly position the couple with the other hand by moving the arm. Since it will stay in place, now you justhave to keep holding the car and use the now free hand to pick up the cover and screw.....
Yeah, it's tedious. I still have a bunch of #5s and springs in my stock, but I tend to not use them and just buy another pack of whiskers when my supply runs low. So don;t feel bad about having a bunch of perfectly good #5s unused while you go buy more of the whisker type.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
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jecorbettMy biggest problem with KDs is when I have to replace the little coil springs. I always figure I'll need 3 of them because 2 are going to end up on the floor. Good luck finding them.
Sounds exceptionaly expert to me
I have been using the Kadee #242 Universal "Black Box" Snap-Together Insulated Gear Box and Lids for most of my coupler installs. The coupler can be assembled first and then be installed on the car. Works great with standard and whisker couplers.
Which KD's is the original poster using. The old stand-by KD#5's have the closure spring already installed and the bronze centering spring shouldn't be difficult to insert in a draft gear box. The "whisker" type also have the closure spring installed.
The only KD's which I've found particularly tricky are the #3x series that have the wire centering spring which has to be added when assembling the KD into that draft gear box - yes, those are a real treat - but I've found I don't use those much at all.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Remove the truck first.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
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"Quote RioGrande:
The only KD's which I've found particularly tricky are the #3x series that have the wire centering spring which has to be added when assembling the KD into that draft gear box - yes, those are a real treat - but I've found I don't use those much at all"
It's too bad those are the couplers that come with the PS 2003CF Covered Hoppers, a real pain to re-install what with the cut lever and other detail parts in the way.
Rick
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#5's can be quite a pain if not using their own draft gear boxes (which is many times). You have the car to hold, the brass spring to set in place (and not dislodge with the coupler shank as you set that in place - and you have to hold it, because if you let go the coupler will just fall off since the head is heavier than the shank), and then you have to clip the cover on the box. That's somewhere around 3 hands. So unless you're a Motie, this can be troublesome. It's tedious at best, even with many years experience. The whisker couplers are like night and day, even in the exact same piece of rolling stock.
N scale modeler here! Just be glad that all you have is a centering spring to contend with. Our couplers come in two peices, and you insert a tiny spring in the middle of the shank with no pins at the end to keep it in place. Just prayer!
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Holding the car in a vise or a foam cradle makes #5 life a lot easier. Then you can build your stack of pieces upside down, starting with the top of the box, bronze spring, coupler and the bottom of the box.
For really nasty installations, Tacky Glue or Canopy Cement will hold the parts in place and still allow complete disassembly later. Just keep it away from the springs and the pivot post.
The 30-series couplers work well on switchers. You can build these up, clamp them with cross-grip tweezers, a trimmed-back wooden clothes pin, or a small alligator clip, and tack the flat cover plate on with a tiny dot of plastic solvent cement. That way you have an assembly that doesn't have to be built on the car.
This may help. I highly suggest using the #148 coupler much easier to install.
#5
http://kadee.com/htmbord/page5.htm
#148
http://kadee.com/htmbord/page148.htm
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
rrinker #5's can be quite a pain if not using their own draft gear boxes (which is many times). You have the car to hold, the brass spring to set in place (and not dislodge with the coupler shank as you set that in place - and you have to hold it, because if you let go the coupler will just fall off since the head is heavier than the shank), and then you have to clip the cover on the box. That's somewhere around 3 hands. The whisker couplers are like night and day, even in the exact same piece of rolling stock. --Randy
#5's can be quite a pain if not using their own draft gear boxes (which is many times). You have the car to hold, the brass spring to set in place (and not dislodge with the coupler shank as you set that in place - and you have to hold it, because if you let go the coupler will just fall off since the head is heavier than the shank), and then you have to clip the cover on the box. That's somewhere around 3 hands. The whisker couplers are like night and day, even in the exact same piece of rolling stock.
I guess so. I never found that to be vexing - although occasionally a bit of a pain - so I'd have to hold the couple shank down maybe with an exacto while putting the draft gear lid on. So a minor annoyance but true.
The main reason I like the whisker KD's is often after screwing down the lid on the shank, the bronze centering spring would add enough to the draft gear box of some kits (not the KD draft gear however) that the shank would bind a little and not reliably spring back to center - especially on some kits like red box Walthers cars. I added a KD #5 to a Walthers Red Box 53' mill gondola and it didn't center well. Whisker worked better for me.
Hi everyone,
One of the most useful tools I have found for working with couplers is a nice pair of fine tweezers. The way I usually do it is to hole the car upside down in one hand and use that same hand so hold the coupler in place, it sometimes take a couple of goes to find a position that holds it all stable. I then use the tweezers to put the lid on the box and place the screw in the hole ready to be tightened.
With regards to the small spring that closes the coupler the easiest way I have found is to slip an exacto blade into the spring to hold it (that may even be the way kadee recommends to do it, I don't have any instructions in front of me). If you are worried about the spring popping off and disappearing do the operation inside a clear plastic bag, that way if the spring does go flying it can't get very far!
Hope this all makes sense.
Dan
riogrande5761 Which KD's is the original poster using. The old stand-by KD#5's have the closure spring already installed and the bronze centering spring shouldn't be difficult to insert in a draft gear box. The "whisker" type also have the closure spring installed.
Most of the time the closure spring is installed. I buy the bulk packs of #148 and there will usually be a few in the package that have lost the spring. They include replacement springs so apparently KD realizes that to be the case. It's been quite a while since I bought #5s but it is my memory that they would occasionally need the spring replaced as well. If I were to guess, I'd say about 1 in 20 will have lost their closure spring.
Unless I missed it, nobody has mentioned the Kadee Coupler Assembly jig:
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page701.htm
My supply of #5s has mercifully run out, but when I was using them the assembly jig made things relatively quick and easy. Note that I said "relatively".
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Am I missing something here or does everyone have a problem with using/purchasing a foam 'cradle'. This one tool is a life saver when it comes to installing couplers (and most other rolling stock servicing procedures). Place the car/engine upside down in the foam and you now have two hands to install the coupers, which you will need. I am buying the #148 whisker couplers now but still have many #5's which I continue to install until they are all gone. Either way, with the car upside down, I can place the #5 bronze spring into the draft box and it stays there, then place the coupler over the pin and down into the spring and while holding it with one hand I can set the cover down and hold everything in place while taking the other hand (that was holding the coupler) to tighten the screw. I don't usually have any problems this way unless there is a clearance problem with the truck and in that case I remove the truck (actually I remove the truck most of the time so I have clear access to the coupler/box). With the #148 whisker coupler, the install is a lot easier, just eleminating the bronze spring step.
This is just my process and I find it not too much trouble; but you really need a foam cradle to act as the third hand.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
dangailerOne of the most useful tools I have found for working with couplers is a nice pair of fine tweezers.
Bingo! A pair of #3 (fine) or #5 (needle-nose) tweezers makes both coupler and coupler spring installation much easier. And fine, flat-nose, and locking tweezers are among my essential tools for any MRRing project. They're worth their weight in gold and worth the expense in getting a good pair from places like Techni-Tool.
With the #5 tweezers you can place the coupler spring over either of the two needle tips then slide it onto the spring "stem" under compression. The needle tip helps to keep the spring from inadvertantly shooting off into the ether zone:
And I totally agree with Bob's suggestion on the foam cradle. It supports the car and keeps it upright; freeing my hands to perform whatever task I need to - unencumbered.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
farrellaa Am I missing something here or does everyone have a problem with using/purchasing a foam 'cradle'.
Am I missing something here or does everyone have a problem with using/purchasing a foam 'cradle'.
I've wanted to get one of those but when I've seen the price tag, I always close my wallet in disgust. So expensive for a bloody hunk of foam! I see foam thrown out all the time so I'm going to make one.
jecorbett Most of the time the closure spring is installed. I buy the bulk packs of #148 and there will usually be a few in the package that have lost the spring. They include replacement springs so apparently KD realizes that to be the case. It's been quite a while since I bought #5s but it is my memory that they would occasionally need the spring replaced as well. If I were to guess, I'd say about 1 in 20 will have lost their closure spring.
Every once in a while I need to re-install a closure spring. I've found what works well enough for me is to take an X-Acto #11 pointy blade and insert the tip into one end of the spring, then put the other end onto one of the posts, lastly put the end with the blade over the other post and pull the blade out. I'm not the most coordinated but so far it works pretty well for me; now and then I have to make a 2nd try and once in a blue moon I loose a spring but I always keep the spares I get from packages and haven't run out so far.
Yup, if I have to repalce a knuckle spring, using the tip of the #11 blade works great. It helps to have a magnifier if you can't readily see the little nubs on the shank and knuckle that the ends of the spring slip over. I used to think it was easier to slip say the knuckle end on first vs startign witht he shank side, but what I later realized is that if you look with a magnifier, there are manufacturing variances and on some the nub on the shank is bigger and some the nub on the knuckle is bigger - whichever is bigger is the end you shoudl slide on first, that gives more 'wiggle room' to get the remaining side set without the first one popping off.
Pain thought it may be, those little coil springs to close the knuckle are FAR superior to the plastic whisker used on some of the knock off brands. One thing I have noticed is that years ago when I bought bulk packs of Kadees, a good many of them did not have the knuckle spring installed. (15-20 years ago) One I've purchased more recently, both #5's and #148's, the majority have the spring installed and it's a rare one I pull out of my storage box that is missing the spring.
Hah hah. Yes, #11 blade do it. In the past 5-6 years, my close up vision going the way of the middle ages has made that job now in need of optical correction! I now have dollar store 2 factor reading glasses scattered all over the house and two pair in the train room. I can't do track work or anything close up without them now. Fun fun!
I agree 100% on the plastic whisker or finger closure springs on the McHenrys. I have quite a few Athearn Thrall Hi-side coal gonola 5-packs produced by Athearn with those cursed things. I took 4 sets to a modular layout to run them (20 cars in all) and they would randomly uncouple at different points in the train during the session. Yep, those McHenry's with the plastic finger. Just in principle I should email Athearn to send me replacement with the metal closure spring which they later went to - for obvious reasons - but I know deep down that KD's are the real solution.
As for your packs without the knuckle spring installed, I have never gotten any like that - I wonder if a batch went out from the factory like that and you happened to get "lucky". I've only seen the odd on missing the spring, never packages where all were like that.
riogrande5761I've wanted to get one of those but when I've seen the price tag, I always close my wallet in disgust. So expensive for a bloody hunk of foam! I see foam thrown out all the time so I'm going to make one.
Jin,I thought the same to until I found them on sale at a train show for $5.00.. Once I used it I kicked myself in the fannie for waiting so long to buy one.
Even at full MSRP they're worth the price-that's about the same price two fast food combos btw.
As far as the coupler knuckle spring I use a tooth pick or my KD spring pick--if I can find it.
BRAKIE Jin,I thought the same to until I found them on sale at a train show for $5.00.. Once I used it I kicked myself in the fannie for waiting so long to buy one.
I'd pay $5 for one, but every time I've seen them they were in the mid-teens and something in me always said $15 bucks for a silly piece of foam! I've come across ideal pieces of foam at work frequently that ended up in the garbage - I really need to remember to grab one and take a cut a channel into one. If I come across a cradle for a decent price I'll buy - but just based on principle, I've got a mental block against paying that much for a hunk of foam.
I'm still using a foam cradle that probably cost me $5 thirty years ago. So many modelers refuse to spend money on good tools, but have rooms full of unassembled kits. Think something is out of balance there?
Graham Line I'm still using a foam cradle that probably cost me $5 thirty years ago. So many modelers refuse to spend money on good tools, but have rooms full of unassembled kits. Think something is out of balance there?
Oh, I've sold off most of my unbuilt kits and turned to the evil ways of RTR models! Not having an over priced piece of foam hasn't stopped me from building quite a few kits however. But I still had more than I had desire to build - it's just something I don't enjoy that much and in the olden days was a necessary evil; sorry if that doesn't make me a "real" modeler.
Model Railroading is Fun!
I am now an expert. Last week it took me 3 days to install the knuckle spring, today I did 2 in 5 minutes. I use the pointy blade and the thread thru the spring saves lost springs, but it also angles the spring in directions that are not helpful. Good light is essential. I use one of those things with aligator clamp arms and a magnifying glass, but one of those binocular magnifiers that you wear like a visor and pulls down in front of your eyes gives you depth perception that the magnifying glass does not.
The flat area above the bent arm tends to be in your way if you are right handed, but I am not coordinated enough with my left to see it that helps. This is probably a piece of cake for a surgeon who operates under a microscope, like an opthalmologist or a neurosurgeon. Ben Carson to the white courtesy phone?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Gratz Henry! Welcome to the KD spring club!