On my layout if you cramed every siding to capacity and every yard, I could get aprox 168 cars and that includes 3 carfloats so -33 if you don't inclue them. I am trying to downsize some more but keep what I will need or really want but I definatly don't need the amount I have now.
Ha, what a question! I believe we can divide MRs into two related categories - one side craves more rolling stock, and the other side has so much they want to downsize. Like a lot of the older train nuts, I have wayyyy more than my layout can handle realistically.
At one time I had over 600 cars, with 1/3 still in kit form. Now I'm down to half of that, and have 100 or so on the layout, and the rest in boxes or in a display cabinet.
For me, downsizing criteria was based on some arbitrary factors that are important to me. First, any cars with build dates 1960 or newer were eliminated. Next, cars that would have no business on my midwest layout (i.e. east or west coast coal hoppers, or tankers or what have you). Lastly, I worked towards some sort of proper ratio of home and foreign roads, and types of cars, that made sense for an ATSF RR located in the lower midwest.
All that being said, I'm a sucker for period correct rolling stock, and while I haven't bought any in years, I'm hard pressed to sell off any more.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Ultimately, any MR should have only enough cars to work his road to the level at which it was designed to handle. Still, hundreds of MRs have many cars in boxes stored away that are not on their layout.
Few MRs stuff every thing they own on their layouts, unless they have an empire. I have two friends with limited space and run 6 or 7 foot long switching wall layouts and they rarely have more than 10 cars on the layout at one time.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
To my mind around 60-70% capacity since that will end any need for 'Wabashing' industrial sidings and yard tracks.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have way to many cars for my current down sized layout.That's the minus side.On the plus side this means I can change out rolling stock to keep a somewhat fresh look to the layout.
Locomotives on the other hand I have enough for at least three large layouts .
I'd say a minimum would be arrived at by taking the maximum number of cars you would normally put in each industry siding, team track, interchange etc. and then double it. That way you have say two cars in an interchange track, and have two more to replace the two already there in the next operation session.
The size of your yard tracks, sidings, and train length are determined by how many cars your trains have to deliver, and whether they're going to be delivered by one train, or multiple trains.
So let's say City A and City B on the layout each have spaces for 6 freight cars in their industry tracks. If you want to serve both with one train, that would be 12 cars plus motive power and (pre-1980's) a caboose. Your passing sidings would need to hold trains at least that long. However, if you serve each city by a separate train, with 6 cars each, your sidings could be shorter.
Of course, having 3 or 4 times the number of cars you have space for, instead of 2 times, will allow for more diversity by rotating cars in and out of the layout.
mobilman44 Ha, what a question! I believe we can divide MRs into two related categories - one side craves more rolling stock, and the other side has so much they want to downsize. Like a lot of the older train nuts, I have wayyyy more than my layout can handle realistically.
I have a pretty small layout in a 10x 18 foot room, and because i fit in both categories (crave rolling stock but have more than I can use) I purposefully designed as much on-track storage capacity as I could squeeze into that small layout. I put in an 11 track staging yard which I estimate could hold around 270 cars at an average of 3 cars for every 2 feet of capacity - i.e. lots of 45 and 50 foot coal and freight cars but some 60' cars too, and a few long freight cars.
At one time I had over 600 cars, with 1/3 still in kit form. Now I'm down to half of that, and have 100 or so on the layout, and the rest in boxes or in a display cabinet. For me, downsizing criteria was based on some arbitrary factors that are important to me. ... All that being said, I'm a sucker for period correct rolling stock, and while I haven't bought any in years, I'm hard pressed to sell off any more.
For me, downsizing criteria was based on some arbitrary factors that are important to me. ...
I used to have a lot more kits than I realized I would ever build, so I have already gone through a phase of rationalizing them and have probably sold off 2/3rds of them and am down to about a box and a half of kits. I continue to build kits now and then which is why I saved some - last year I built around 10 but I'm going to keep kits to a minimum and just be realistic about that.
I too am a sucker for period rolling stock and by sticking to a time frame, at least that places some contraints on what I do purchase. It also helps me to downsize some and help fund new purchases as I refine my modeling period more and more. By way of example, at one time I was buying items that fit 1965 thru about 1995 approximately - a 30 year period can encompass a lot of stuff! I've already cut it back to 1990 which allowed me to sell off all wide-cabs, post 1990 paint schemes, etc. I've now reached a point that I'm looking at cutting the time frame back to 1985 (end of most caboose operations on D&RGW mainlines). This would allow me to sell off additional rolling stock, which I already have too much off naturally.
As companies like Tangent, ExactRail, Moloco and Athearn produce very nice 70's era rolling stock, while I can't afford alot of it, it really motivates me to tighten up my focus a bit more now to a 20 year time frame that I can be enjoy more.
But I digress. I designed a layout with storage in mind so I can maximize as much as possible trains on the rails and fewer train in boxes. I hope if I am blessed with a larger layout space in a few years, I will do the same thing, design in generous capacity.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I am keeping mine to the point that they would all fit in staging and the on line yard, with NONE at industries. Plus eight ore cars at the mine.
As there will always we some at industries, as that is the reason for being, this permits everthing to function.
I realise other use systems where cars go to staging, then a shelf, until the operating system calls for that car again. This works, but seems like more effort and more thought than I need.
Dave
The trouble with answering a question like this is that my wife may be browsing the forum.
It sounds like you went through the same buying orgy that I did. LOL
Who's to say how much is too much and how little is too little.
I claim to model Dearborn Station in the mid-50s, and there were 6 railroads that used that station. Most of the time, the station was empty and when it was filled, ten tracks held one train from each of the 5 owner railroads and 2 or 3 Santa Fe trains, the primary tenant. So, a pair of locos for each of 5 roads, plus maybe 2 or 3 pairs of Santa Fe locos ought to do it. Plus maybe 40 passenger cars.
Then, I have a 9-stall roundhouse, so maybe 9 steam engines. Add around 100 freight cars for my freight yard.
That, in total is what I should have. Is that, in fact, how much I do have? Maximum? Hey, I plead the 5th !
Rich
Alton Junction
For the layout: As a start I would do half as many as the industrial sidings will hold plus half the staging capacity. Then adjust upwards or downwards as you get experience operating the layout.
For the collection: As many as you have room and budget for. Part of the fun for me is having a wide variety of rolling stock. Eventually, I'll have 2 or 3 era sets for the layout, but I'll always have some that just don't fit.
But this is a hobby so do what's fun.
Enjoy
Paul
In the recent thread about having more locos than cars I explained my method of determining needs and car counts.
My completed layout plan is designed to handle about 30 mainline trains in staging and yards - 6 to 8 of those trains are passenger, some are long, 12-15 cars, plus extras in the coach yard - so at aprox 230 passenger cars I have plenty and have no additional passenger car purchases in mind. I do plan for all of them to be on the layout.
Call it 22 mainline freight trains in staging yards - typical train length 45 cars - that is just under 1000 freight cars. Then we need some already in sidings and the main yard - call that a couple hundred more.
The current count is about 1100, pretty close to what the operation requires and I have been focusing my purchases on freight rolling stock for several years now, and filling in just a few small gaps in the loco roster. I think another 150-200 freight cars will round things out nicely.
I am not a collector, every piece of equipment is an "actor" in the operational scheme. When complete, virtually nothing will be in display cases or stored in boxes.
Sheldon
I'm with Sheldon on this, but at about a tenth of his totals. I am a sort of eclecticollector; I see what I like and purchase what I like that I can get. Turns out I have a smallish passenger consist for all my passenger engines, but I mix and match my freight cars for all the drag engines and fast freight engines. By mixing and matching, I can both replicate what a person roadside would have seen on almost any railroad in the steam era, and I can minimize the numbers of road-specific cars. I just don't like the idea of having boxes 'n boxes of unused/waiting rolling stock squirreled away under benches and in stacked totes.
My experience on many operating layouts suggests that 50-60% of the total capacity will likely be enough cars (although many folks overload their layouts to the detriment of ops, IMHO). But it depends on how you will operate the layout, of course.
Personally, I'd start with that 50% on the layout, operate a few times, and then adjust the number of cars on the layout up or down as necessary.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
cuyama My experience on many operating layouts suggests that 50-60% of the total capacity will likely be enough cars (although many folks overload their layouts to the detriment of ops, IMHO). But it depends on how you will operate the layout, of course. Personally, I'd start with that 50% on the layout, operate a few times, and then adjust the number of cars on the layout up or down as necessary.
I agree, about 50% of the visable siding and yard capactiy is a good starting point. My totals are based on 80-90% of the staging capacity plus 50% of the visable siding and capacity.
And, my operational scheme is centered equaly on both mainline operations and industrial switching. So the high number of staged trains is to provide lots of mainline action and variety on the double track mainline.
Oh I don't mind some extras lying around but I started out with over 1000 cars, about 1/2 in kits. Been selling for a few years as I ran accross stuff or upgraded. Down to about 500 now. Most everything I have kept is high quality, like Intermountain, that I got for very cheap over many years (like over 30). Half are still kits. It is not that I don't have the room but I find it is beter to be able to find what you want than have too much but I don't want to sell something, only to wish I hadn't, hasn't happened so far.
I was just thinking that my rolling stock collection is almost complete. Yes I have to rotate some of them on and off of the layout but I do run all of my rolling stock except for some 40 boxcars which are the wrong era and were just an impulse buy.
I think that 2 or 3 times the cars which fit on your spurs is a good number so that when one car is there, another has just been removed and put on a train heading beyond the basement, and another car has just be assigned to be delivered there the next time. I also have some trains which are bridge traffic and are never delivered to modeled industries. These are mostly intermodal freight and they make a few laps and then are rotated off the layout via the fiddle track, and replaced with others that have been waiting in a cabinet. These represent shipping containers which are loaded (off the layout) in Long Beach and are heading east. They are not to be confused with railroad containers which are the majority of the containers loaded in San Bernardino. For the most part railroad containers never leave North America. I have some staging but always wish there was more. For some car types I have more than I need, like boxcars, refers, and lumber carrying flat cars. Others there is still a shortage, like hoppers. Most of my MOW equipment is stored until I run it, which I do fairly regularly. Same with my steam excursion. My 3 commuter trains have their own parking on the layout and so does my Amtrak train.
I have bought extra kits for the future when I have extra time to assemble them. I know that when I officially retire for real that I won’t have as much money so I stocked up when I had some. Eventually these kits will be assembled.
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe I was just thinking that my rolling stock collection is almost complete. Yes I have to rotate some of them on and off of the layout but I do run all of my rolling stock except for some 40 boxcars which are the wrong era and were just an impulse buy. I think that 2 or 3 times the cars which fit on your spurs is a good number so that when one car is there, another has just been removed and put on a train heading beyond the basement, and another car has just be assigned to be delivered there the next time. I also have some trains which are bridge traffic and are never delivered to modeled industries. These are mostly intermodal freight and they make a few laps and then are rotated off the layout via the fiddle track, and replaced with others that have been waiting in a cabinet. These represent shipping containers which are loaded (off the layout) in Long Beach and are heading east. They are not to be confused with railroad containers which are the majority of the containers loaded in San Bernardino. For the most part railroad containers never leave North America. I have some staging but always wish there was more. For some car types I have more than I need, like boxcars, refers, and lumber carrying flat cars. Others there is still a shortage, like hoppers. Most of my MOW equipment is stored until I run it, which I do fairly regularly. Same with my steam excursion. My 3 commuter trains have their own parking on the layout and so does my Amtrak train. I have bought extra kits for the future when I have extra time to assemble them. I know that when I officially retire for real that I won’t have as much money so I stocked up when I had some. Eventually these kits will be assembled.
My rule for rolling stock is to count all the spots on the layout and aquire 3x cars for each spot. IE: my paper mill has spots for 4 boxcars, 2 tanks, 4 wood chip hoppers, and 2 pulpwood racks. So to service my mill, i have 12 boxcars, 6 tanks, 12 hoppers and 6 pulpwood racks in service for the mill. 1/3 are kept at the industry, 1/3 in visible staging (the local yard), and the last 3rd is in non-visible staging (interchange from outside the system). Each industry on the line is treated the same way. Operations are first and foremost for me though, so I try to keep just to how many cars I actually need to operate and not buy a lot of cars that don't fit in. There are a few oddballs, cars that I just like, and I use them as bridge traffic.
Over 45 years i have 1762 frieght cars and 100 locomotives i moldel erie lackawanna and mo.del csx and up. i have upgraded to top of the line cars and engines. i feel you buy what you what and the way they keep raising prices it might turn out to be a investment.....
Do you operate using some form of car routing system? Do you use fiddle staging? Its nice to have about 2-2.5x the number of cars than spots for cars on the layout if you do relatively frequent (twice a month or more) operating sessions. This is so you dont end up with the same cars in the same local trains going to industries along your line (you start to notice this). So in your case 275-300 should be more than adequate. I would go through and nit pick out any thing that doesn't fit the era or operations modeled (I wouldnt expect to find ATSF or UP coal hoppers on the BM or MEC for example).
BMMECNYC Do you operate using some form of car routing system? Do you use fiddle staging? Its nice to have about 2-2.5x the number of cars than spots for cars on the layout if you do relatively frequent (twice a month or more) operating sessions. This is so you dont end up with the same cars in the same local trains going to industries along your line (you start to notice this). So in your case 275-300 should be more than adequate. I would go through and nit pick out any thing that doesn't fit the era or operations modeled (I wouldnt expect to find ATSF or UP coal hoppers on the BM or MEC for example).
I understand your point, but with a large layout and creative switch lists, it is a long time before cars recirulate. I have no interest in handling cars un-necessarily or physically removing them. I prefer to handle equipment as little as possible - using through staging and loops to turn trains, etc.
"fiddle" (with my hands) staging is not an acceptable process to me.
Ok, what I have is a 15x30' dogbone with a yard at both ends and sidings along the right of way. The one yard is large (about 45 cars) and the other small (about 25 cars) but with a carfloat operation. It can be operated as a point to point or loop. I have a yet to be used (just finished the basic layout) car routing system by Micromark, another e-bay bargin of $12 for the whole thing plus extra trays.
If you want to do prototype style operations, the answer is "about half as many as you think."It's easy to add cars, and too few cars doesn't clog up a railroad.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
I like that rule of thumb.
Theoretically one could move every car on the layout during any operating session. Granted that with car type and road restrictions on sidings that couldn't realistically happen, but that's why it's a rule of thumb and not just a rule. ;)
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe I was just thinking that my rolling stock collection is almost complete.
I was just thinking that my rolling stock collection is almost complete.
Wha?? RR collection complete? Can that ever be true? Silly goose! I'm sure there is one or two curmudgeons here who will claim to have not bought any trains in some years but normally for that to happen it's because someone has taken a break from the hobby.
With new cool stuff being producted all the time, it would take some amazing fortitude to resist the schwartz and not buy stuff that fits your fancy. There have been times I looked at my collection and felt like goals were being met, coal trains, TOFC trains, this, that... and then some thing really accurate comes out that is perfect for my era. OTOH, I do try to sell off items too so that the collection just doesn't balloon unnecessarily, but I try to sell off items that don't fit too.
I have bought extra kits for the future when I have extra time to assemble them. Eventually these kits will be assembled.
I did that for about 20 years and then noticed hey, the vast majority are still unbuilt - and "eventually" wasn't coming along. I think 90% of people did the same thing and during the past 4 or 5 years all those inexpensive, NIB kits at train shows are from people who realized they would never build them all or passed away with big collections of kits.
About 4-5 years ago I began going over my collection of kits, which wasn't as big as some, and realized after 15, maybe 20 years, no, I wasn't going to build most of them and started selling them off. Add to that my close up vision is much worse now than when I was buying them and so I find building kits much less a pleasure then I did when I was younger and had good close-up vision. I have whittled my kit collection down to about 1 1/2 or so paper boxes full, and started chipping away at them slowly last couple of years. If I find some remain unbuilt after a while, I might even rationalize kits I have left and sell off some of those - I'm just getting more realistic these days about what I'm enjoying - less so kit building and more so layout building.
The answer is simple
Enough to operate the layout properly this number varies from layout to layout.
There are two kinds of model railroads those that are well overstocked and those that are still working on it.
It comes as a result of layouts changing over time being rebuilt in new locations
not always the same size as the last one and the just plain I like that piece of equipment I will get one or two of them.
But the minute you get rid of any of it, it will be I need one of those its oh drat I got rid of it in the clear out.
regards John
riogrande5761 Lone Wolf and Santa Fe I was just thinking that my rolling stock collection is almost complete. Wha?? RR collection complete? Can that ever be true? Silly goose! I'm sure there is one or two curmudgeons here who will claim to have not bought any trains in some years but normally for that to happen it's because someone has taken a break from the hobby. With new cool stuff being producted all the time, it would take some amazing fortitude to resist the schwartz and not buy stuff that fits your fancy. There have been times I looked at my collection and felt like goals were being met, coal trains, TOFC trains, this, that... and then some thing really accurate comes out that is perfect for my era. OTOH, I do try to sell off items too so that the collection just doesn't balloon unnecessarily, but I try to sell off items that don't fit too. I have bought extra kits for the future when I have extra time to assemble them. Eventually these kits will be assembled. I did that for about 20 years and then noticed hey, the vast majority are still unbuilt - and "eventually" wasn't coming along. I think 90% of people did the same thing and during the past 4 or 5 years all those inexpensive, NIB kits at train shows are from people who realized they would never build them all or passed away with big collections of kits. About 4-5 years ago I began going over my collection of kits, which wasn't as big as some, and realized after 15, maybe 20 years, no, I wasn't going to build most of them and started selling them off. Add to that my close up vision is much worse now than when I was buying them and so I find building kits much less a pleasure then I did when I was younger and had good close-up vision. I have whittled my kit collection down to about 1 1/2 or so paper boxes full, and started chipping away at them slowly last couple of years. If I find some remain unbuilt after a while, I might even rationalize kits I have left and sell off some of those - I'm just getting more realistic these days about what I'm enjoying - less so kit building and more so layout building.
A few thoughts:
I know lots of modelers with functionally compelete layouts, who have opperating sessions with fellow modelers every month, and are very active in the hobby, who have reacherd a point where their purchases of equipment or locos are very limited.
Even with my layout still in a major rebuilding, my purchases of equipment have slowed considerably as I reach the limits of what my layout scheme will require.
I have never even considered the idea of selling off existing models to replace them with "better" ones - better is relative.
Kits vs RTR - for me it is not either/or, I like building rolling stock kits just as much as building the layout - maybe more in some cases. I buy my share of RTR, but I would never consider selling off my unbuilt kits any more than I would sell off working/completed rolling stock from the layout.
I should note, no piece of RTR equipment has ever hit the rails of my layout without at least some upgrades, changes, or light weathering - no generic couplers, most get sprung/equalized trucks first, etc.
Personally, be it model trains or other perosnal items, I have never understood people who buy stuff, keep it while, often never using it, then sell it off, usually at a loss - I know what I like and want and those tastes and choices are not easily swayed by every "new" thing that comes along.
In 45 years of model railroading I have never changed scales, never changed era modeled or layout theme once I picked it, and I have only bought about 12 items I later sold off......
Guess I'm not like other folks........
I use to be well rounded until I learned what I really like...............
PS - In fact am glad I have most of what I need or want - because I really dislike the direction the industry has gone - now I can just fill in the remaining items I need/want as I find them. If I was getting into this hobby today, I most likely would not - I highly dislike/resent the limited production/preorder business model. The only thing that redeems this hobby from the pit falls of the limited production/preorder non sense is the large secondary market - train shows and Ebay.
My problem is I am into detail, used to do that myself, but the industry has gotten better than me, in most cases. I used to own dozens and dozens of Accurail OB boxcars as the individual grabs ext. don't show up on them as well as they do on 1932 or 1937 steel boxcars. Only about a dozen remain (all SP) as I have aquired Tichy OB boxcars (paying less than the Accurails are worth on resell). Only thing I have bought for real money are Tangent 3 dome tank cars, got three in my time period but this frees up at least 9 MDC oldtime single dome kits which by the time I upgraded them, this would be a wash.
I been getting freight cars for my modern fleet that fits in 1987-2007.
I check the cars that the model railroad companies are making to see if they have their picture taken during that predictable year.
I try to buy freight cars that didn't change within the 20 years. (easier to keep on the layout) the same way for cars that came out around late 2006-2007. I will not get them because it's too close towards the end of the train set timeline.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.