I have a question about posting feedback for purchases on feebay.
I believe if I buy something from a seller and pay almost immediately thru PayPal I have done my part as well as I can possibly do it and have completed my full part of the transaction.
I feel the seller should post a positive feedback for me as I can do no more.
I think it's rather cheap of the seller to not post until I receive the items and post for them. I understand they may be worried about me posting a negative feedback toward them so they want to see what I say first. I think the buyer/seller can work out any issues and the seller can always respond to the feedback if it isn't very good.
I just think the honorable way is for the seller to post first when the buyer has paid. I have stopped posting feedback if the seller withholds. I have also found quite a few sellers don't post feedback anyway.
I always check their FB rating before bidding and if they have much less than 100% I read the responses to see what was said by both parties. Often the buyer is new and hasn't quite gotten a grasp on the system and I check to see how the seller also responds. Some are rather nasty and rude. I just pass on them and find something else. Why jump into doing business with that sort of person anyway? If there is a big pissing contest feebay doesn't offer much help so I ust try to avoid the slugs.
Anyway......what do you think?
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
A seller's job is not done until the customer is satisfied. I generally wait until feedback from the buyer demonstrates that. It's not a matter of worrying over negative feedback. It's a matter of customer service process.
Having been on 15 years and still with 100% feedback, I can say that it used to be customary that the buyer provide feedback first. Not required, but the way it's always seemed to work for me. In recent times, fewer than 50% of buyers ever leave feedback. I used to just skip it, too, when they did. Now I usually say the good things about the transaction, but note they haven't left feedback after two weeks. Others can decide whether that's important to them or not. I'm not dissing anyone, just noting it in case someone wants to give it more thought.
I will say that dealing in trains generally has buyers leaving more feedback than the depressing situation elsewhere, maybe because it offers a world of new possibilities for both disposing of no longer needed stock and finding that special something that was made years ago and you missed out on.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
My normal way of doing it is this: If I sell something, you leave me feedback, I will do the same. If I buy something from you, I will leave you feedback when received and is in same condition as advertised.
Buyer responsible for first move. If you buy something and don't leave feedback, I will not leave any for you.
Way too many "sales" early on where I left good feedback to buyer for quick payment and got zero left for me. Most sellers will respond once you do however....
And, as was pointed out, seller's job is not complete until the customer says it is.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
My experience is similar to ricktrains'; sellers, in almost all cases, will not leave feedback until the buyer initiates first.
Back when I started using eBay, feedback was nearly universal in both directions. In more recent times (say, the last year), I've had sellers leave no feedback nearly 40% of the time. I think that sellers largely view the feedback system as having little use to them at this point.
This is likely due to eBay's current (and longtime) policy of not allowing sellers to leave negative feedback on buyers. So leaving no feedback at all is their only 'negative' recourse if something goes south.
Some one needs to explain to me what seller's feedback does for anyone. Is that to give other sellers a hint as to whether or not the buyer is going to be a problem of some sort?
From what I can see, as a non-participant, the buyers (or bidders) are not identifiable to anyone else.
I guess I just don't understand.
You can see other bidders and their feedback rating, just not their real eBay ID, it makes things up to disguise the real identity of the other bidders, other than from the seller.
It's mainly information for the other sellers, if you see someone who has a lot of negatives, especially for non payment, you can cancel their bid. Or, you used to. More recent eBay changes have highly skewed things towards the buyer. But the idea is the same as feedback on the seller being for the purpose of helping buyers decide if a given seller is trustworthy.
As for the OP's question, when selling I tend to not give feedback until the transaction is complete. Sure you paid right away, but witht he way eBay has slanted things to be anti-seller, it's all too common for someoen to bid and buy something, then claim they never received the item, and unless you have signature required and have gathered the information from the shipper that shows the person actually signed for it, if the buyer files a despute, they pretty much automatically win. So despite rapid payment - wait until they leave feedback as the buyer and then leave the feedback that says they pay fast, etc.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Buyer or seller, if your a jerk, slow payer ,complain because the $50.00 loco you won for $10.00 doesn't work like the newest loco on the market other sellers have the right to know this.
If your the jerk seller that lies about the item then tells you "That's to bad,you bought" Then other buyers have the right to know that.
I always leave feed back for the sellers,but if there is a problem I contact the seller and try to work things out to both our satisfactions.
I no longer sell on ebay because I no longer have anything I want to get rid of,besides I think the idea of not being able to call out a bad buyer is not only unfair to the seller but other buyers.
By the way I have not had a problem with a seller in the last 5 years.I may just be lucky that way.
I have been active on eBay for 12 years as a buyer and seller.
As a buyer, I always get immediate feedback from the seller if the item is new. This happens even before the item is shipped. In the case of a new item, the seller really has nothing to lose because the item is, or should be, in perfect condition and, if not, most sellers have return policies.
As a seller, I always wait for the buyer to receive the item and then leave feedback for me, and that is the way that most sellers of used items proceed. As a seller of used items, I sell only undamaged goods and if there is damage I clearly note it. So, I expect positive feedback, which I always get, or I get no feedback at all. Once I get feedback from the buyer, I reciprocate and leave positive feedback for the buyer.
Feedback is important to the seller, and positive feedback is critical. Nowadays, the seller cannot leave negative feedback for the buyer, only positive feedback. So, there is no chance for a seller to retaliate if he unfairly gets negative feedback from a buyer.
Rich
Alton Junction
As a seller I believe that it is good customer service to immediately leave positive feedback when I receive a payment. If they paid quickly I have no problem thanking them for it. I hate the idea of sellers not giving feedback because it makes me feel like they are holding it in case they want to play the retaliatory feedback card (if someone gives them negative feedback). I never dreamed of doing that. I was surprised when I found out that people do.
If I buy something and I don’t get feedback for giving them my money then they don’t get feedback. When I see that a seller gave me feedback then I will give them feedback.
In fifteen years I have never given anyone negative feedback. I have been able to work out any problems without needing too.
richhotrainNowadays, the seller cannot leave negative feedback for the buyer, only positive feedback. So, there is no chance for a seller to retaliate if he unfairly gets negative feedback from a buyer.
I didn't know that. That is good! I've seen people's reputations ruined unjustly.
I see where you picked up on what Rich said about the limitation on seller feedback in your comment after you wrote this.
Lone Wolf and Santa FeIf I buy something and I don’t get feedback for giving them my money then they don’t get feedback. When I see that a seller gave me feedback then I will give them feedback.
If I don't get feedback from the seller, then I have no idea whether you have a problem. I also have no way to fix what might be wrong. Unless this is communicated via feedback (or through the email system on-site) to the seller, they are left wondering whether you're satisfied or not.
I sell stuff to please you so that you consider the money well-spent. If I have no way of knowing that, then at a minimum, that's poor communication by the buyer. I typically don't leave that in the feedback, simply note there was no communication. If nothing else, future sellers will perhaps be reassured you just didn't seem to care about that. That's one reason why I said that waiting to hear back from the customer is part of the process.
Rich did note there is a difference when buying new production. Many sellers will take care of that once paid. Typically, they are also volume dealers and this avoids the process of going back through things to leave it customer by customer as it comes in. They also often require a signature, which costs the customer more.If there's something wrong with an item, they can take it up with their supplier, so they have limited exposure other than the cost of shipping a replacement.
I forego that as a very small time dealer of mostly lightly or little used stuff, which is what most here who do online auctions do. If something isn't right or gets lost in the mail, I don't have a replacement in most cases. You are covered as the buyer against stuff like inaccurate descriptions, etc, even though I don't offer a return policy. If you bought it as described, it's yours and I think I do OK at that, given my 100% rating. Transparency helps everyone. If you're not transparent about the fact that your received things OK, then what am I supposed to think? Of course, I assume that others are looking for a positive experience, too, so that's what I try to accomplish.
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe richhotrain Nowadays, the seller cannot leave negative feedback for the buyer, only positive feedback. So, there is no chance for a seller to retaliate if he unfairly gets negative feedback from a buyer. I didn't know that. That is good! I've seen people's reputations ruined unjustly.
richhotrain Nowadays, the seller cannot leave negative feedback for the buyer, only positive feedback. So, there is no chance for a seller to retaliate if he unfairly gets negative feedback from a buyer.
No, this is the BAD change i was talking about. If you get a deadbeat bidder there's nothing you can do. The only 'unfair' reputation smashing I've seen on ebay in my 12+ years has always been some idiot buyer trashing a seller because THEY bid on the wrong item, or didn't bother to read the auction details and then complained. Which is why when a seller has less than 100% positive I will check, especially if any of the negatives have been recent enough to see. 9 times out of 10, it's the buyer being an idiot rather than the seller actually ripping anyone off. Especially love the ones where the seller refunds 100% of the buyer's money, including shipping, and the buyer STILL leaves a negative. Really? What MORE would you like, not one cent of your money was lost. That's neutral at worst - transaction didn't work out, seller refunded all monies.
oldline1 Anyway......what do you think? Roger Huber Deer Creek Locomotive Works
I agree 100%, as a seller, I rate the buyer immedietely when payment is received. I stand behind what I sell and am note overly concerned because I have every intention of satisfying my customer within reason. I always post multiple pictures and make the description 100% accurate.
And I get buyers and sellers who don't bother to to provide feedback half of the time!
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
This kind of assinine blah blah plus the hucksters that seem to have taken over have kept me away from E-bay for years. Maybe if you stick your tongue out at the other party, they will cry.
Charlie
Charlie,
I have a hard time figuring out why if someone gets something and it's as advertised, why the paranoia about going ahead and simply stating you received it in good order and are satisfied?
On the other hand, if you're not happy, leaving negative feedback isn't the first thing to do. Rather, they should contact the seller, explain the problem and seek satisfaction. It should get worked out so that there's no need to leave negative feedback.
Even LW&SF noted that...
Lone Wolf and Santa FeIn fifteen years I have never given anyone negative feedback. I have been able to work out any problems without needing too.
Exactly.
In roughly 750 transactions, I've had nothing I sent go astray and exactly one parcel stolen from a seller to me (which was made right) off my porch in the ten minutes between arrival and my noting mail was there, but no package as expected. Everything I received was more than satisfactory and my ratings tell that about me.
I wanted to return to how the buyer giving feedback is simply good communications. Usually, the buyer gets two notifications upon shipment, one when the label is bought and another when the package is dropped off. So the seller has communicated with them at least twice. Then whose turn should it be? IMO, it is the buyer whose turn is next in the "conversation" that takes place. They get the package and open it. Happy? Then let someone know. That's what they want to hear after sending several messages to the buyer. And it's the case once received, I usually provide instant feedback at that point. Transaction done.
Buyers should also keep in mind that the PO updates shipping data only at intervals, at least it hasn't been real time in my experiuence. The arrival being documented arriving at your location may not show in the USPS tracking for some time, so in many cases, the buyer may be the first to notify the seller. Again, good, positive communications that contributes to getting good, positive feedback.
I went back and re-read the entire content of the OP's initial post.
It strikes me that the problem lies in the lap of eBay itself.
There was a time when the seller could leave negative feedback for the buyer. This could hurt the buyer's ability to participate in future auctions. But, eBay took that ability away from the seller. Without this ability, buyer feedback is pointless. So, in answer to the OP's question, my answer remains No, the seller should not issue feedback first. In fact, in my experience, the seller shouldn't leave feedback at all because it is pointless.
I will go a step further and point out, from my own personal experience and that of my son who is a Power Seller, that eBay does a very poor job of disciplining buyers who do not abide by eBay's own rules.
I will give two examples.
The first example involves an auction that I conducted to sell a group of "collectables" for my wife. She excluded international buyers because of the difficulty of shipping a large package overseas. With seconds left in the auction and a wonderful bidder from the East Coast in the lead, an international buyer made a last second bid to win. I immediately contacted eBay to retract the bid, and eBay said No, just relist. Then, the buyer refused to pay. I asked eBay to ban the buyer from future transactions. eBay did nothing. Meanwhile, my East Coast bidder decided not to buy at his last bid because now he was suspicious of me.
The second example is one of my son's auctions. A buyer made a purchase, but then did not pay. So my son, following eBay rules, opened up a Dispute. At that point, the buyer paid and then immediately requested a refund. My son granted a refund. The buyer then left negative feedback, but my son could not reciprocate. Meanwhile, the buyer who got the refund had a friend act as shill and buy the item for her when it was relisted.
So, I say NO, the seller should not provide feedback first and, I argue, should not even be permitted to leave feedback for the buyer because the feedback is pointless. Only feedback to the seller matters.
All that said, my overall experience with eBay has been excellent as both buyer and seller. But, eBay could do a better job of protecting sellers, just as it protects buyers.
I have been buying and selling on eBay since the summer of 98. When I sell an item, I post feedback upon receipt of payment. I feel this is the right thing to do. Some sellers I deal with won't post buyers feedback until the buyer posts for them. Most have receieved a message from me explaining my policy. Consequently, if they don't post for me upon getting paid, I don't post for them, unless they deserve less than positive feedback. In that case, I give them a chance to make it right before posting.
As a very active Ebay user, both buyer and seller, I generally leave feedback quickly upon reciept of payment. I do not do this out of repect or good business practice, I do it solely because Ebay leaves sellers no choice. Your only feedback options as a seller is positive or none.
Rich is dead on about this, Ebay is set up for the buyer in just about every way and as a seller, your recourse with poor buyers is very limited. Fill out a claim and wait 21 days? While what I am selling sits unsold and my groceries dont get purchased. But, it's the price we pay for access to so many buyers.
richhotrainSo, I say NO, the seller should not provide feedback first and, I argue, should not even be permitted to leave feedback for the buyer because the feedback is pointless. Only feedback to the seller matters.
Rich,
I understand your frustration with a few buyers. And you may be correct in that feedback to the buyer from the seller may mean little. What's important to making ebay work is that buyers see feedback that gives them confidence in bidding on a seller's items. This is particularly so with model RR stuff, as there's oftentimes used stuff or New Old Stock (NOS), so descriptions matching what's received is important.
But I have to ask, if buyers do not get feedback, then what incentive do they have to give sellers feedback?
Thus, while buyer feedback is largely meaningless, it is still important in order to encoruage them to leave feedback for the seller. Without positive feedback, then seller rep gets hard to see being useful when few people use it.
As you note, Mike, I was speaking out of frustration. While I generally agree with your point of view, I doubt that the majority of buyers care whether they get feedback or not, especially if they are only buyers and never sellers, as most buyers are. So, where is the incentive to leave feedback for the seller anyhow? In my experience, many buyers do leave positive feedback for the seller either because they realize that it makes the auction system work or because they appreciate the opportunity to buy an item they wanted or needed.
In any event, this is an eBay problem that eBay itself created by taking away the seller's ability to leave negative feedback for a problem buyer. If eBay would once again permit a seller to issue negative feedback, then I believe that the feedback system could be brought back into balance. But, in the absence of that ability, one way to deal with the feedback problem is to automatically give the seller a positive feedback after a set period of time if the buyer has not provided feedback during that period of time.
I think you're looking for something to complain about.
After a user gets a couple hundred feedbacks, the feedback function is pretty much meaningless anyhow. Since buyers can't receive negative feedback, it's completely useless, and for big sellers it's only a matter of time until they get some crank who blames them for something out of their control (post office) or doesn't try to resolve an issue.
richhotrainIf eBay would once again permit a seller to issue negative feedback, then I believe that the feedback system could be brought back into balance. But, in the absence of that ability, one way to deal with the feedback problem is to automatically give the seller a positive feedback after a set period of time if the buyer has not provided feedback during that period of time.
That's a good idea. If no evidence of harm, then declare it no foul and thus positive feedback.
Roger, I'm in 100% agreement with you. I always pay within an hour or less. As you pointed out, I've done my part as a buyer and have earned good feedback. Likewise, when someone buys from me and pays in a timely fashion I provide good feedback before even shipping the article. I must be doing something right as I've had almost 2,000 transaction in the last 18 years and have 100% positive feedback.
Nowadays I don't post feedback to sellers who withhold their feedback waiting on mine. And I will never again bid on anything from a seller who states they give the same feedback they get. Twice I've gotten absolute junk from such sellers and was pretty much over a barrel on feedback. Never again.
Keep in mind that the only way the seller can be certain that you received the item is when you leave feedback. Yes, a tracking number will show that the package was left. Yes, a signature required (costs extra and is a hassle many buyers do not want) tells you someone signed for it.
However, feedback via the standard method costs nothing and makes sure you got what you bought. I understand that you're a 100% buyer when you bid. That doesn't communicate that the package the seller sends has reached its destination. And if you're buying from a 100% seller, do you REALLY think they got that rating by leaving nasty notes after someone nicely told them they got what was sent OK and perhaps even said they were satisfied?
And now that you can NOT leave negative feedback for a buyer, how exactly is someone going to diss you? Heck, even now when I do note that no feedback was received, I try to do it in a bland, neutral tone, still hoping for some reciprocation -- and still nothing from many buyers. Kind of sad really that we assume other folks are out to get us. There may be a few, but I've yet to meet them as a buyer myself and I sure haven't done anything like that as a seller.
Like in many other areas of life, you get what you're willing to offer. After letting you know I'm packing a purchase and the PO letting you know I put it in the mail, I still am baffled by someone thinking I should interpret the silent treatment as a sign that everything's fine. YMMV
Which is unfortunate. I know ebay has its issues, but generally I've had no problems. It's an invaluable source if you're in narrowgauge, like I am, or model a rare prototype (or two like I do.) I try to make sure those I deal with get the same positive experience. There are disappointments from time to time in life and I'm sure ebay has it's share. But most people are just like you and me when it comes to smalltime sellers and buyers. That seems to be even more so in the model RR community, just as I've found most fellow modelers good folks. If you believe one bad apple spoils everything else, then most of life will be a disappointment. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.
Hi
I only ever buy off of evil bay
No feed back is left by me untill I have what has been purchased in my hands
You can't give acurate feed back until you have it in your hands.
It is also good manners to drop a courtisy note to the seller when you get the Item and that it arrived in one piece, most of my purchases come from over seas.
I find sellers tend to wait untill they know you have the product to leave feed back.
This doesn't bother me.
It is when there is no feed back at all I think there is a problem as both the seller's and buyer's reputations rely on the feed back for good or ill
regards John
John BusbyYou can't give acurate feed back until you have it in your hands. It is also good manners to drop a courtisy note to the seller when you get the Item and that it arrived in one piece, most of my purchases come from over seas. I find sellers tend to wait untill they know you have the product to leave feed back. This doesn't bother me.
John,
Your perspective is a bit different than most here in the US, who never comnsider the vagaries of international shipping. For overseas buyers, hearing the package made it tgakes on a whole new level of significance. Unlike many Americans, I do sell to the world.
It's also the case that my very first ebay purchase was a brass loco I'd scoured the US for. Even had one fellow said he had one, but couldn't find it. Then I saw one on ebay in Australia. Should I join? Why not give it a try? Sure enough, a couple of week's later I'd found what I looked for 2 years -- a Jonan HOn3 SP GE #1. I do dabble in other stuff, but most of my transactions have been model RR items, often ones that are sold out long ago or simply hard to find.
BTW, they guy that couldn't find his called me back a couple of years later. Oh well. Ebay beat him to it.
I notice that the OP has not returned 3 days later after starting the thread. Too bad, because it would be nice to know his reaction to the replies. I always feel that an OP should stick around to manage his own thread.
I have not read all responses so this may be repetitive.
I have had buyers complain about a handrail that fell off, a grab iron that fell off, some easily reattacheable part falling off during shipping (or taken off by the buyer because of buyer's remorse), or a scuff on the paint, then complain that the "item was not as described" .....then demand a refund plus original and return shipping.
There are many tricks buyers use when they are simply remorsefull after getting into a bidding war.
I've been ripped off by unscrupulous buyers much more than unscrupulous sellers, so I always wait for the buyer to leave feed back first.
- Douglas
richhotrainI notice that the OP has not returned 3 days later after starting the thread. Too bad, because it would be nice to know his reaction to the replies.
I guess he's just not that into feedback...
mlehman richhotrain I notice that the OP has not returned 3 days later after starting the thread. Too bad, because it would be nice to know his reaction to the replies. I guess he's just not that into feedback...
richhotrain I notice that the OP has not returned 3 days later after starting the thread. Too bad, because it would be nice to know his reaction to the replies.
Do as I say, not as I do.