Hi everyone,
I'm back with another off-the-wall question. I have a GG1 shell that has a "false" grille impressed in the shell. The only thing I can think of to fill this minor impression was car body filler - as I have never done anything like this before on a model loco - but have done it plenty of times on automobiles
I want smooth lines to create a GG1 that looks like the one shown in Classic Trains Magazine (Summer 2015 - Amtrak's GG1 That Might Have Been) with the Amtrak blue over white paint sceme with the oversized road numbers. The body lines need to be smooth - for me anyhow - to get the microscale decals to sit properly. But like I have said before - there is a lot more experience in this forum and probably hundreds of better ways to fix this issue without using body filler.
The shell is an AHM GG1 with the grille impressions on the lower part of the front body shell - right where I need the Amtrak Blue/Red stripe to sit flat on the body.
Chris.
Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.
Sit back and enjoy your track...
That's all I use when I need to fill larger areas. Just be sure to use the filler with the additional hardener you add yourself - that type cures by chemical reaction, so has zero shrinkage.
Other fillers that don't have the additional hardener, cure by evaporation and consequently have some shrinkage.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Sounds like a job for Squadron Putty. A lot of guys mention Squadron Green but I use the white stuff myself. I blocked off some extra windows in a couple of cabeese and removed their cupolas. I backed the holes up with sheet styrene glued in from the inside and then cut a filler piece of styrene same thichness as the body to fill the hole. Then filled in around the joints with the Squadron white putty and after sanding and priming it, you couldn't see the patch.
Be happy in your work.
Charlie
Thanks for the quick replies.
Mark - nice to hear from you (and your upside down sig )
Charlie - thanks for the alternative.
I think the area that needs to be covered is VERY small so I think both products would work. I guess it comes down to price. The putty looks cheap and I only need a little of it to work with. But you never know when I might dent the truck - so the body filler would be a great extra to have on hand.
Hi Chris:
Auto body filler should work fine. I have used auto body glazing putty for years and it works very well too. It is a bit more convenient than body filler because it doesn't require mixing and it wipes off tools very easily. As was mentioned in an earlier post, it does shrink because it is solvent based, but I have only had to do a second application when I was filling large i.e. 1/4"+ holes. The only caveat is that because it has solvents in it, it will attack the styrene if it is used in too great a quantity. Its best to build it up in layers. However, in your case the quantity won't be large enough to bother anything.
Recently I had to replace the original 10 year old tube of glazing because it got too hard to work with. I decided to give Squadron Green putty a try as well as Tamiya's white filler. I preferred the glazing putty to the Squadron green because the glazing putty didn't skin over quite as fast. The Tamiya white is loaded with solvent and is very aggressive. It softens the surrounding styrene significantly which I don't like. It also shrinks a lot.
If I manage to use up the Squadron putty I will go back to the auto body glazing. The Tamiya I won't buy again.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
WOW - the repies are coming in fast - I should have also mentioned that I am going to use a base coat of Krylon plasic coat flat white - which will be fine for the plastic shell but will it react with any of the suggested fillers. I think the body filler will work with anything - as I have used it before - but I am not sure about the putty or glazing filler.
I have already bought the spray paint and Amtrak decals so if anyone can see an issue with this combo let me know. I am doing this for the first time
Thanks for the tip on the Tamiya Dave.
P.S. As mentioned before I am pretty handy with body filler and as such pretty good with spray paint too. I don't have a fancy air-brush gun so spray paint is my only option right now.
You might want to test it on an inconspicuous part of the shell. I used autobody filler (the type to which a catalyst is added) to secure brass tubing for a headlight in the nose of an F7 bodyshell, and it softened the plastic enough that it created what looked like a dent on the exterior. I used a different kind of filler to fix that.While that shell was '50s-era styrene from Globe, the plastic of your AHM/Rivarossi shell may be similar.
Wayne
My preferred putty is made by ProForm, part number PF319. It is a flowable finishing putty that requires a separate hardener much like the cans of "bondo". As the name states, it will flow and is self-leveling which greatly cuts down on the amount of sanding required. And speaking of sanding, this stuff sands very easily, unlike other filler that become really hard when dry. ....
As Wayne suggests, definately try whatever filler you choose in an inconspicuous location that has been painted with the Krylon. I suspect the paint will be softened by the filler.
Actually, I would ask why use the Krylon first at all? The filler will bond to the fine scratches left by the sanding so I don't see a need to prime it first. I would use a proper primer after the filler instead of the Krylon flat white. In addition to providing a good surface for the finish paint, the primer will show any defects in the filled area.
I have been using a body filler from Bondo in a tube that I find at WalMart instead of Squadron. I find it lasts longer in the tube, it has a foil seal on the nozzle so no solvent evaporates away while it is sitting on the shelf in the store.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Just remember..that automotive fiberglas body filler, (bondo) gets pretty warm when curing, enough to distort a thin plastic shell. I would rather use Evercoat glazing putty or Squadron white putty.
Take Care!
Frank
Is
LOCO_GUY I should have also mentioned that I am going to use a base coat of Krylon plasic coat flat white
Are you planning to use the "Fusion" Krylon paint, Loco Guy? I tried that stuff on a few model test pieces and it really went on THICK. Regular Krylon could be applied in thinner coats.
And—since you are investing quite a bit of effort in your GG1 project, you might consider getting Amtrak Platinum Mist which is the actual metallic shade used in the early 1970s on Amtrak locomotives and passenger cars.
Rustoleum has several shades of metallic paints, one called titanium silver, that might be a better match to Platinum mist. Perhaps, too, you should have your base coat glossy to allow the decal to adhere to the paint surface better. Decals do not like matte finishes...
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/universal/universal-metallic-spray-paint
I assume you do not plan to use an airbrush for your paint work?
Good Luck, Ed
I appreciate the number of replies on this subject - thank you all.
I am just an amatuer in model railroading (had my first LEGO train about 50 years ago and only tried HO scale about 3 years ago - so a big gap) so don't cringe when I tell you the following
I have the shell off and will fill the indents directly and sand it down. Then I will apply the Krylon White Satin finish over the whole shell - thats the final coat - no messing around. Then I intend to mask off the bottom portion and spray it with the blue Krylon paint - again that will be the final coat. Lastly I will mask off the front and rear light areas on the shell and give that a nice coat of red paint. The insulators will also get a touch of red paint (like in the magazine photo).
Then I will apply the Amtrak decals and hopefully will have a decent finish to my loco. I am not an expert in doing this stuff, but if you have any helpful suggestions or are horrified by my plan then let me know. I like the critique I get here it makes me a better model railroader.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all - even as a Brit I celebrate Thanksgiving and will have the family over this Thursday. I gotta cook the turkey and ham - hopefully no one will end up in the emergency room with food poisoning
Oh Chris! Your plan is absolutely horrible!! NOT!!!
Seriously, it sounds like you have things nicely worked out.
As was mentioned, the only problem might be the decals on the flat paint. You may get a bit of silvering from air trapped beneath the decals. If they are going to be on the white paint it likely won't show too much, but if they are on the blue paint then there is a chance the problem will occur. The best solution would be to either use gloss paint to begin with, or to gloss coat the shell before applying the decals.
You should also apply a sealer coat over the decals. If you don't want a shiney engine you can use Testor's Dullcote to finish it off. Be aware that the Dullcote cans put down a lot of spray in a hurry so you need to use a light touch.
Dave,
Thanks for that info. Once again I am probably going to cause a fuss - but my plan was to try Rejuvenate Furniture restorer over the decals (as I already have a bottle for the wifes dining table) It's a polymer based liquid so it smooths out tiny imperfections. I tried it on an old shell with microscale decals and it worked fine and also gives a nice satin finish - unless you use too much and it.
Yep - I like to do things on the cheap - but hopefully the result will be okay - I'll post photos unless I make a complete mess of it.
Chris:
Nothing wrong with cheap if it works.
Lots of people have used similar furniture and floor polishes and by all reports they work fine.
LOCO_GUY I have the shell off and will fill the indents directly and sand it down. Then I will apply the Krylon White Satin finish over the whole shell - thats the final coat - no messing around. Then I intend to mask off the bottom portion and spray it with the blue Krylon paint - again that will be the final coat. Lastly I will mask off the front and rear light areas on the shell and give that a nice coat of red paint. The insulators will also get a touch of red paint (like in the magazine photo).
One old trick when using spray cans: spray with one hand, and hold a 12" x 12" or thereabouts section of screen door wire in front of the can nozzle between the spraycan and the object being painted. It'll catch any oversize droplets that could cause an uneven paint job, rippled *orange peel* runs that require sanding down and reshooting, or spotting. As the screen begins to load and fill up with paint, beware of drops running off it, discard to a solvent/thinner dip wash when in doubt, and switch to a fresh clean section of screen. Usually, I'll do touchup paint jobs like this inside a large corrugated cardboard box, again, watch out for any buildup inside the box that can drip or run onto your model.
Archy,
Thanks for the tip. I am pretty good with a paint can - spent plenty of time fixing dings and dents in my old vehicles. But thats a great option if I cannot get the finish I am looking for.
I filled in the old grille indents on the shell so all I have to do is sand and prep it now. I used that Tamiya putty to fill the indents and it worked out quite well. Wont know for sure until I get all the sanding complete and the first coat of white on the shell.
Is there some reason to use this instead of Milliput? Milliput is basically the same idea, except it is designed for our kind of projects, and holds detail better. Plus, you can wet it and smooth it much more evenly than bondo.
They specifically mention model railroading on the Milliput package.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
ARRRRGHHH!!!
Disaster struck. First pass at this project was a dismal failure. I used Easy Off to remove the paint and decals - however, they stayed put and nothing came off. So I assumed (very wrongly as it happened) that maybe the shell was already tinted "tuscan red" and the decals had been on so long they wouldn't budge. So I put on the first layer of white paint. COOL - except 10 minutes later it was PINK!!!
The Krylon had melted or interacted with the old paint and it was a GIANT mess.
After several coats of Easy Off and plenty of time for it to eat off the old paint I got back to the grey plastic shell. As I have had such a bad start on this project I think I need to take some photos and create a new thread later to track all my "hits" and "misses" so other modellers can learn from my newbie mistakes.
Anyhoo, it went from GOOD (the filler worked very well) to the BAD (nice pink paint job) to the UGLY - scraping off the original paint and the layer of white I overlayed on it.
All I need now is for Clint Eastwood to say - GO AHEAD MAKE MY DAY.
We've all been there, Loco Guy.
If you get just the right shade of blue for the stripes you might have a sweet looking GG1
The thing about our kind of projects is that we are working with dozens of kinds of materials and dozens of kinds of paints and solvents and everything reacts differently. Add to that the vintage of our models and formulations used "back in the day" with the modern formulas of paints and lacquers (if you can even get lacquer!) and you have a mix that, sooner or later, is going to have an adverse reaction.
I was disappointed when Krylon reworked their rattle-can formulas recently and Rustoleum did the same, and they are NOT the same stuff I was familiar and comfortable with using for so many years. One of my projects crazed right before my eyes and I had a heck of a time getting it stripped.
Then we lose some of the tried-and-true model paint products so we have to learn all our techniques all over again... sometimes, as you well know, with disasterous results.
Hopefully your shell is not getting permanently affected by all the different chemicals it is getting exposed to. I had one that shattered like glass after a few weeks due to some sort of reaction with the acetates and esters...
Glad you are still plugging away... don't get discouraged! And post some photos!
Ed,
Thanks for the encouragement - I really need it now. My feet are sore after hours of spraying and cleaning, cleaning and spraying but I did get the shell back into a reasonable shape.
The pink GG1 in your photo is not far off what I had - except mine was supposed to be white and blue ;-)
I am going to try and take lots of photos and record the "painful" path that newbies sometimes encounter. I have done paint jobs on some passenger cars which worked out ok - but the paint on those stripped right off and took the new paint easily. So maybe I got a bit "cocky" with those simple projects working right off the bat. Now I have to deal with a lot of other little issues like keeping the holes for the insulators and horns free of paint - so I plugged them with toothpicks.
I'll post the outcome later. Good bad or ugly.