Hello all,
I'm working on an On3 loco(paint,new motor,LEDs,DCC/sound),and will soon be getting to the windows.I'd like to use real glass for this,something I haven't done before.The picture below shows the windows(there are also three small windows in the tender doghouse) - thankfully,there are no curved cuts needed,but I'm sure there are some tips/tricks to working with glass that I don't know.
I bought some .006" glass and a scribing tool from Clover House.Any advice,such as your preferred tools(anyone use the Hobby Pal suction cup tool?),best work surface for scribing,what adhesive you use,etc,would be much appreciated(Photo's too!)
I've googled this- found some examples- but not much in the way of "How To's"
Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
I've not used it, but I have an old Berlyn Locomotive Works Micro Glass kit. It states...
Cut micro glass on a hard and smooth surface, such as a piece of 3/8 or 1/4 inch glass...
Use a metal straight edge while scribing your microglass. Place a piece of masking tape on your surface glass and on the backside of your straightedge to keep your micro glass from moving while scribing.
Apply only enough pressure to scribe a thin line on your micro glass...Snap the micro glass by applying a light pressure with your fingers to both sides of the scribed glass.
Not much to go on, but should work. Not sure BLW is still around or not. But there were several how-tos published some time back (before 2000) when I bought this kit. Searching the magazine index should turn up soemthing.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks,Mike - good info. One of my main worries is the glass siding around while I'm trying to scribe it. I was trying to think of a work surface that would supply some grip without too much deflection,causing the glass to break ...masking tape sounds like the way to go.
Mel,I could give a clinic on "Clumsy". The problem with a thicker glass is that one of the windows on each side slides behind the other without much clearance,so the thinner the window the better. I've got enough of the .006 glass to make many,many attempts before giving up and going with styrene or acetate.
I use real glass on most of my models (slide covers), and I use a cutting mat to work on.
My preferred ruler is a very thin metal strip with a thin rubber edge underneath. I can cut rounded edges with ease using a template.
I glue the windows with crystal kleer, as I find it very easy to use and it dries totally clear and is a little flexible.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
The glass is stronger than you think, dropped a whole box of 50 and only 3 broke, knocked it off a shelf. You cut it just like real glass. What might hold it better than masking, is rubber, people sometimes have that lying arround for oppening jars or maybe and old rubber glove cut up would work?
middleman Mel,I could give a clinic on "Clumsy". The problem with a thicker glass is that one of the windows on each side slides behind the other without much clearance,so the thinner the window the better. I've got enough of the .006 glass to make many,many attempts before giving up and going with styrene or acetate. Mike
Just for reference, the BLW kit slide covers are .004" thick.
Thanks to all of you for the advice/information. It's probably going to be a week or so before I'm ready to install windows,but I'm looking forward to giving something new a try - I'll let you know how it works out.
Thanks again,
Mike:
I'll add my worth. I recently cut some .005 glass from Ngineering using a Ted Pella diamond scribing pen. I used a very light touch and the glass snapped along the scribe line very easily. I was suprised at how well the scriber worked. I was working on a standard cutting mat and the glass pieces didn't slide around under the straight edge. Again, I used very little pressure. Cutting glass is a bit like cutting styrene. All you need to do with the glass is create a fault line where the glass will snap when it is bent.
One small glass cutting point that I learned a long time ago is that cold glass doesn't cut very well.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I didn't mention in WPF Mike....but You did a fantastic job on the detail of Your engine.
Back in the early 70's when I was going to college for Machine Design, I had a couple of instruments, if you will call them....a perfectly level drafting board, with a layer of cork on the surface, which made anything that you put on it, non sliding. My T-square, which was metal, also had a very thin cork film on it, excellent for working on glass. I'm not telling You to run out and buy them, they are not cheap.....just passing on the info. I still use mine to this day. Btw, I went to college, after I got out of Vietnam in 1968 and let the Goverment pay for it.
As far as the glass goes....have You looked into clear Acetate? Another alternative, to styrene and glass...easy to cut and very clear, a lot of people overlook it's use or don't know about it.
http://www.dickblick.com/products/grafix-clear-acetate-sheets-and-pads/
Take Care!
Frank
Clear acetate doesn't have the optical qualities of real glass, or the straightness....
The real advantage of glass is the wonderful reflection you get in them without distortion.
Graffen Clear acetate doesn't have the optical qualities of real glass, or the straightness.... The real advantage of glass is the wonderful reflection you get in them without distortion.
I agree with You to a certain degree....do You really think it is going to matter in something that small? Ease of installation would be My first concern. Aside from that, the Acetate does come in many thickness's. It is a lot easier to bend to shape..as in curved winshields as In My case and many other's who use it. I don't see where You get the distortion issue from.
To each the're own belief's, I guess.
I've used microscope cover slides for windows in a couple of cabeese and a passenger car.
I used .006", as I recall. It's been awhile.
I cut it as described by others, above. About half of my attempts failed, but it's so quick and the glass so cheap that it didn't matter. Be SURE to vacuum up all the teeny teeny bits after you're done cutting. There's a lot of pain lurking there. And I am NOT speaking from experience. Happily. Oh yeah. SAFETY GLASSES!
I held the glass in place on/in the model with four teeny blobs of epoxy. A runny liquid would be a bad choice. I used tweezers to place the glass, after positioning that side to be horizontal. And then applying epoxy-blob. A suction cup would seem counterproductive.
The glass really does look like, well, glass. It's a scale 1/2" thick. But it looks perfect.
I never tried doing a curved edge, and I'm glad to hear it's possible. Another approach would be to shape it with carbide paper, either manually or with a drum sander. Being thin, it likely would be pretty quick by hand.
The window glass is likely going to be the last thing installed on the model. You probably want to clean off any fingerprints before installing. Especially if the model is wood. If it's metal or plastic, you could likely do the cleaning on an installed model with dish soap solution and a very good rinse later. It's obvious it'll be easier to do the cleaning BEFORE installation.
I haven't tried dirtying the windows "after". You know, like the windshield wiper pattern on a locomotive cab. That is mostly because I hold my railroad's employees to a high standard of cleanliness. And safety. A dirty window is unsafe! If I felt compelled, I would do some "external" experiments before trying anything on a model.
Ed
Again,I appreciate all of you taking the time to contribute.
Graffen: Is that Microscale Krystal Klear you use? There seem to be several products with similar names. I was thinking of using Testor's Clear Parts Cement(which I have on hand),but the online reviews I have read rate Krystal Klear as superior.I'm going to order some,and also try it to make the curved lenses for the class lights.
Dave: I don't think the temp of the glass would have crossed my mind - very good to know!
Whether my real glass experiment is a success or failure,Frank,I do plan to try thin acetate for windows. Awhile back you recommended it for making the sharply curved windshield for this 1/48 scale '56 Ford Pickup:
I tried the thinnest clear styrene I had handy,but those milky fracture lines always appeared when I tried to curve it.I'll get some acetate and give it a try.
Mel,the tranparency film looks promising,too.I have a bunch of structures still to do.It will be interesting to try all of these materials as glazing.
Ed: Thanks for bringing up the safety glasses.I'm recently retired after 37 years with the local electric utility,and feel naked without safety glasses - always good to be reminded of that. I anticipate a high failure rate making the windows,but I have lot of glass to work with. With regards to the suction cup,I believe the tool I ordered creates suction with a small motor,and releases when power is shut off,so it won't be working against the glue. EDIT: No motor in the tool,you just depress a button to create the suction,press again to release.
The suction tool Micromart sells works great for installing windows.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
middleman Again,I appreciate all of you taking the time to contribute. Graffen: Is that Microscale Krystal Klear you use? There seem to be several products with similar names. I was thinking of using Testor's Clear Parts Cement(which I have on hand),but the online reviews I have read rate Krystal Klear as superior.I'm going to order some,and also try it to make the curved lenses for the class lights. Thanks, Mike
Yes, the Microscale brand, it is very easy to work with!
'Wanted to let you know you how this came out. I know I'll improve as I use glass more,but I'm happy with the results for the 1st try. Also,the suction tool was a great help. The picture doesn't show the glass very well - my shortcomings as a photographer!
I also used the glass to make the small number boards beside the headlight and tender light. I lightly sprayed the back of the glass with flat black,and mounted the decals on the front. When the headlight is on,enough light shows through the paint to illuminate the numbers.
Thanks,everyone,for your help on this. It was fun,and I'm looking forward to using glass in my next structure.
Beautiful work, Mike.
Glad the glass worked out.
I use K&S Engineering clear PETG plastic sheets (.010) for all windows, both on the rail and for structures. It is durable, easily cut and sure looks like glass to me. Much safer than monkeying around with real glass- I would be worried about the small filings resulting from cutting real glass- one of those in your eye would be painful and medically expensive!
Cedarwoodron
This is what I've used for a number of passenger car windows as well as structures & I've found it easy to work with, at .007" thick.
http://www.sierrascalemodels.com/glass.htm
bigpianoguy:
Thanks for the link,they look like a good source for many modeling supplies. The glass and scriber I used are very similar, from http://cloverhouse.com/Store/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=cut5kiddfkc8lespbt7m9gld17
I didn't use CA on the windows,but am glad to see the warning on the SierraScale website that using CA with an accelerator can cause the glass to shatter.The reaction between the CA and accelerator generates substantial heat - I know from experience that it will burn right through the thin insulation on the "magnet" wire used as leads with very small LEDs!
Ed: Thanks for the kind words.
7j43k I've used microscope cover slides for windows in a couple of cabeese and a passenger car. I used .006", as I recall. It's been awhile. Ed