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Broadway engine just hisses like a snake.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:11 PM

Your loco is actually an E6A.  I have the identical locomotive in the C&NW road name.  

Here is what the Operator's Manual has to say about returning the loco to factory default values using the "Quantum Reset Jumper".

In case your engine's sound and control system misbehaves and turning the power off for 15 seconds does not return it to normal operation, you can reset your locomotive to factory default values.

  • Turn off the power
  • Remove the locomotive body
  • Locate the reset jumper and remove
  • Reapply power, the horn will sound with three toots
  • Turn power off and reinstall the jumper

This is the so-called "hard reset".

Give it a try.

Rich

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:56 PM

the old train man

Rich,I did what you suggested & it tooted the horn 3 times. When I tried to run it it would not move & did the same old thing so I reprogamed the address to 750 again & it worked fine til I turned power off,then I had to program the address then it worked fine until I turned the power off again.

 

I just re-read this reply, and I missed part of what you said in my first read.  

Aha, those three toots of the horn are an audible acknowledgement that the decoder was reset to factory default.  So, definitely a QSI decoder, because those three toots of the horn are unique to the QSI decoder series.

The reason that you had to re-program the 4-digit address the first time after the reset to factory default is that a reset to factory default clears the 4-digit address. However, the 4-digit address should not be lost after each power down/power up. How are you writing the 4-digit address? On the programming track or on the main?

Do you have the box and small reddish colored manual that comes with the loco? I am wondering if this unit includes a wand to do a hard reset.  Sometimes, that is the only way to keep these QSI decoders awake.

Rich

Edit Note: Forget about a wand, your loco comes with a jumper on the circuit board.  See my next reply.

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:43 PM

I am trying to rationalize what is now happening with your loco.  Give me some time to think this over.  Meanwhile, maybe others have some thoughts.

Rich

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Posted by the old train man on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:41 PM

Ok thanks

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:32 PM

It may be that the Digitrax DCS50 cannot read a sound decoder without a programming track booster.   If that is the case, then we will need to identify the manufacturer ID some other way.

Meanwhile, I called BLI to inquire about repairing a Paragon loco with a QSI decoder. They indicated that they still have replacement QSI decoders on hand, and that they would not have upgraded to a Paragon 2 decoder.  So, there is every likelihood that the replacement decoder in your loco is a QSI.  If you call BLI, they will check their repair record for your loco and tell you the manufacturer of your replacement decoder.

Rich

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Posted by the old train man on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 2:59 PM

Rich,I did try to put 8 in ,it said dnr which means cant read the decoder

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 1:30 PM

According to the Digitrax manual, d na means there is no acknowledgement from the decoder typically during write operations.

You need to read the CV, not write the CV.

Read Section 16.6 - Reading Back CV Values Programmed

You want to read the value of CV8.

Rich

 

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Posted by the old train man on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 1:16 PM

Rich I tried that & it said d-na

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 1:10 PM

Let's find out who the decoder manufacturer is.

Put it on the programming track and read the value in CV8.

Then come back and tell us the value in CV8.

Rich

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Posted by the old train man on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 1:05 PM

Rich,I did what you suggested & it tooted the horn 3 times. When I tried to run it it would not move & did the same old thing so I reprogamed the address to 750 again & it worked fine til I turned power off,then I had to program the address then it worked fine until I turned the power off again.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 12:04 PM

Hi,

If I understand this correctly, BLI had the loco twice and said there is nothing wrong with it.  Yet, it won't run on the OP's layout. 

I may have missed this in previous posts, but it seems a help would be to take the loco to another person's layout or the LHS and see if it works there.

If it does, the problem is with the OP's system/layout.   If it doesn't, then it is very likely the loco itself.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 10:02 AM

Also, when you put the loco on the programming track, read the value of CV8.

Is it 113?  Is it 38?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 9:59 AM

the old train man

Rich I tried what you said to no avail but listen to this,I put a new address in (#75) & it came on and ran normally,then I cut it off ten seconds & turned it on & it would not respond. so I reprogramed 75 back into it and again it worked,so here is the deal,everytime I want to run this engine I am going to have to reprogram the address in it.Any suggestions?

 

OK, believe it or not, this is good news. It shows that the decoder is functioning and not fried.  Once this is resolved, I don't think that you are going to have to reprogram the address or other CV values every time you power up.

Let me suggest this.  Instead of 75 which is a 2-digit address (Ad2), change AD4 which is a 4-digit address to 750, the cab number.

Run it on the main line for a moment.  Then, put it back on the programming track and reset it, using this procedure.

Put the loco back on the programming track and change three CV values as follows:

CV49 = 128

CV50 = 255 

CV56 = 113

This is the 3-step sequence to reset the original series of QSI decoders.

Then place the loco back on the main line and see if it will respond and how it responds.

Rich.

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Posted by the old train man on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 9:32 AM

Rich I tried what you said to no avail but listen to this,I put a new address in (#75) & it came on and ran normally,then I cut it off ten seconds & turned it on & it would not respond. so I reprogramed 75 back into it and again it worked,so here is the deal,everytime I want to run this engine I am going to have to reprogram the address in it.Any suggestions?

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 8:25 AM

richhotrain

OK, BLI #773 was part of the original Paragon run with QSI decoders. Of course, since BLI supposedly replaced the decoder, we do not know for sure if the replacement decoder was a QSI or a Paragon 2. But that can eventually be found out.

Incidentally, the Manufacturer ID can be found as the value of CV8. For QSI, the value is 113, and for Paragon 2, the value is 38.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 6:49 AM

rrinker

3, 03, 003, 0003, do not matter with Digitrax. 3 is a short address, period. There is no with or without leading 0 confusion. Now if the loco were previously owned by an NCE user who set it to long address 3 - it would not be accessible to Digitrax until reset.

                 --Randy

And the thing is, it is so easy to put the loco on the programming track, and read Ad2 and Ad4.

Ad2 is the 2-digit address and Ad4 is the 4-digit address.

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 6:32 AM

3, 03, 003, 0003, do not matter with Digitrax. 3 is a short address, period. There is no with or without leading 0 confusion. Now if the loco were previously owned by an NCE user who set it to long address 3 - it would not be accessible to Digitrax until reset.

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 11:16 PM

So, are you saying that if you put the loco on the programming track, and press the LOCO key to Ad2, the 2-digit address would read 03 ?

Try this.  

Put the loco back on the programming track and change three CV values as follows:

CV49 = 128

CV50 = 255 

CV56 = 113

This is the 3-step sequence to reset the original series of QSI decoders.

Then place the loco back on the main line and see if it will respond.

Rich

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Posted by the old train man on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:53 PM

03

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:31 PM

Old train man,

When you call up the units address, are you using just 3, or a longer 03, or four digit number 003 or 0003? 

This could be part of the issue.......

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

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Posted by the old train man on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:27 PM

Ricktrains,right.

 

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:24 PM

Old train man,

I get the job part, I myself work retail. I could be anywhere from 8am till 10pm. Never the same time, never the same day each week. And then, day off? House work, projects, errands, etc...

I really hoped the "crazy theory" would work. (Something in that fixed mine, so I thought, maybe.... But, not so here.)

I just think all are getting frustrated that nothing seems to be working, and information is hard to get across in writing at times. 

Now, if I have this correct, BLI Part number is 773, so a Paragon E6A in L&N, road number is L&N #750, right?

But, that gets complicated though, as earlier it was said that BLI replaced the original decoder once before, so it may not have gotten an original Paragon decoder, it maybe a newer Paragon 2 decoder, if it was offered in the E-series. (Not at all sure if the 2 was ever even offered for the unit in question here. If it is still the original Paragon series, that would explain why my thoughts were incorrect, as it fixed my Paragon 2 unit....)

I am also of the group that feels this unit is really not on the address we think it should be, or that the DCC command station is not fully resetting. (Though I have been wrong here before....)

EDIT: I see some of this is now covered... My internet is quite slow tonight...

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

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Posted by the old train man on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:22 PM

Richhotrain,03 is programed in right now

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:14 PM

OK, BLI #773 was part of the original Paragon run with QSI decoders. Of course, since BLI supposedly replaced the decoder, we do not know for sure if the replacement decoder was a QSI or a Paragon 2. But that can eventually be found out.

The reason that we are pressing for answers on how the locomotive performs is that we are not convinced that the loco is responding to the 2-digit address (i.e. 03) or the 4-digit address (e.g., 0750, the L&N cab number).  So, it would be helpful to confirm the address by placing the loco on the programming track and reading the address.

Here are the instructions for doing this with the Digitrax DCS51:

3. Press the LOCO key and you will see either Ad2 or Ad4 in the display. Ad2 = two digit address (address must be between 01-127) Ad4 = four digit address (address must be between 0128-9983) Each time you press the LOCO key the display will toggle between Ad2 and Ad4. When the one you want to use is in the display move to the next step.

4. Press the CV­rD key to to read back the address programmed into the decoder. Your display will show Ad2 or Ad4 while it is reading then it will display the decoder’s currently programmed address. When reading back addresses, 2 digit addresses are displayed with 3 digits, (001 through 127) and 4 digit addresses are displayed with 4 digits (0128 through 9983). 

At this point, we really need to know the addresses programmed into the decoder, both Ad2 and Ad4.

Rich

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Posted by the old train man on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 9:18 PM

Rich,let me say first of all I apologise for not responding to the threads. I work at a job, & I have just completed the bench work on my new layout. This week I layed roadbed,layed track & finished up the wiring today. As you can see I have been busy. I will now have more time at the computer.The #on the box is 773 L&N is the roadname,thanks so much for your interest & the interest of others on this thread.Im sorry &I hope to respond faster in the future.I guess I had to many irons in the fire. I set the address to 3 & that did not help so I set it to another #  & that did not help. The regular light is on not the mars light.

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Posted by Graffen on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 7:27 PM
Yes, I think that that loco is NOT on address number 3...

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:08 PM

the old train man

richhotrain,The top headlight is on,its set on #3,it hisses regardless of what # I program into it,it will not toot the horn or ring the bell,& I did reset the digitrax. 

 

I really wish that you had taken the time to read my entire reply and answer all of my questions. That is the only way that we can help you.

Let me try a different tact.  What is the BLI # on the box that the loco was shipped in?

Rich

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Posted by the old train man on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 9:22 AM

richhotrain,The top headlight is on,its set on #3,it hisses regardless of what # I program into it,it will not toot the horn or ring the bell,& I did reset the digitrax. 

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 7:31 AM

 When all else fails - look in the DCS51 manual and do the OpSw 39 system reset. Especially if BLI is saying there was no problem found with the loco. This has fixed more than one person - if the DCC system itself gets slightly scrambled it can make wierd things happen. OpSw 39 completely resets it to factory default.

                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 5:03 AM

maxman

The loco has been to BLI twice and they say it works, but then it doesn't perform on your railroad?  Sounds to me like something else is going on.

When BLI sent the loco back to you, did they happen to tell you what address they used for their tests?  Maybe they left it at some other address than 3.

Yep, what maxman said.
 
I am going to return to what I hope is "constructive criticism" for our OP. He does not answer our questions, so it is difficult to help him.
 
In this instance, his latest reply only reponds to Rick's suggestions which were, admittedly, part of a "crazy theory". But, other suggestions were made and other questions were asked, as well.  
 
I agree with maxman that the problem is likely not the decoder. Or, to put it another way, the decoder is likely not fried.
 
From the nature of the replies to this thread and the other thread, some of us wonder if the problem is the address.  Another likely problem is the possibility of a decoder reset to factory default.  The older QSI decoders are notorious for misbehaving, and sometimes a proper reset to factory default values is the only solution.
 
So, old train man, let's try this again.
 
First of all, what you are describing as "hisses" is likely the sounds of diesel start up which I get with my QSI decoders (of which I have 18).
 
Second of all, you indicate that "it hisses regardless of the address number". How are you able to determine the "address number", and how are you setting the "address number"?  Which addresses are you trying (e.g., 1234)?
 
Third of all, it would be helpful to us if you would tell us specifically how and what you are testing, step by step. 
 
One of my questions is, If you turn off the power to your DCC system, wait 10 seconds and turn the power back on, does the E7 hiss?  Or does the loco only hiss when you access it by calling up its address? The answer to this question is critical to understanding the response of the decoder to applied power.

My other question relates to the initial peformance of the locomotive (1) when power is applied to the layout and (2) when power is applied to the decoder. When I access my BLI Paragon E7A by calling up its long address, I do hear some diesel start up sounds, probably what you refer to as hissing.  The upper head light comes on. When I press the first speed step, the upper headlight starts rotating (beacon). I have to press the headlight button to turn on the lower head light. I can toot the horn without the loco moving. Does your E7 do this?  All of this?  None of this? Some of this?  If only some of this, which does it do and which does it not do?

Since the locomotive hisses but doesn't move, what does it do?  Observe and describe what happens with the upper headlight and the lower headlight.

When the locomotive is first accessed by its address number, does the upper headlight actually light?  Is the lower headlight off when the loco is first accessed by its address number?  Can you turn the lower headlight on at that point? Can you toot the horn without the locomotive moving?

Next, when the first speed step is applied to get the loco moving (or trying to get the loco to move), what happens to the upper headlight?  Does it rotate?  How about the lower headlight with the first speed step applied? Can you turn on the lower headlight?  Can you toot the horn?

When you perform those tests, are you using the short address 03 or are you testing with a 4-digit long address such as 0234 or 1234?

Take your time and documenting how and what you are testing. It would be premature to set it on the shelf. Don't give up..........yet.

Rich

Alton Junction

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