Hello All,
This is an extension of a discussion of the thread, "Who Runs DC Only?"
In that discussion it deteriorated into not the hows (DC vs. DCC) but the What's...
What's your particular preference on layout design and operation.
My question is..."Loop vs. Point to Point...What's your preference?"
And, here's the kicker...don't tell us why others fall short but rather why you enjoy your particular operation.
Looking forward to any and all civil answers.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Loop to loop works very well for me.
I have a long double track main line with a loop at each end. So, it is possible to have continuous running.
However, when operating, I can treat either end or both ends as points if I choose to do so.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
OK,
I prefer continious routes with hidden staging because:
I subcribe to the theory of only modeling each feature once. One main yard, one sizable citiy, one big passenger terminal, one engine terminal, etc.
And then simulating the traffice in and out of this "city" or division point.
I also prefer double track mainlines.
So it runs like point to point for operation - but the two "points" are hidden and connected by staging.
So one staging yard does the job, not two.
And it is good for display operation when not being run for "operation".
The balance of yard work and mainline running is better.
I also like to include seperate "belt lines" for most of the industries, keeping them off the mainline and generating even more diverse operation. The belt line becomes almost a seperate "ISL" (industrial switching layout) within the main layout.
Sheldon
Heartland Division CB&Q Loop to loop works very well for me. I have a long double track main line with a loop at each end. So, it is possible to have continuous running. However, when operating, I can treat either end or both ends as points if I choose to do so.
i take a very similar approach, only with two loops that double back on themselves. This allows me to model the fourt-track Pennsy main line. I enjoy how this gives me the feel of pain to point and a train actually traveling from point a to point b, but still lets me just watch the trains and be a railfan.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, I prefer continious routes with hidden staging because: I subcribe to the theory of only modeling each feature once. One main yard, one sizable citiy, one big passenger terminal, one engine terminal, etc. And then simulating the traffice in and out of this "city" or division point. I also pefer double track mainlines. So it runs like point to point for operation - but the two "points" are hidden and connected by staging. So one staging yard does the job, not two. And it is good for display operation when not being run for "operation. The balance of yard work and mainline running is better. I also like to include seperate "belt lines" for most of the industries, keeping them off the mainline and generating even more diverse operation. The belt line becomes almost a seperate "ISL" (industrial switching layout) within the main layout. Sheldon
I also pefer double track mainlines.
And it is good for display operation when not being run for "operation.
Ditto.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I prefer a loop with a double main. That is what I worked with through three different plans in three different locations in my house before I actually built. In all three cases the two loops do tend to seperate as on went through a mountain and the other went over it. I have added a branch line that is to a point but it also has a return loop.
YES!
That is to say that the LION has BOTH. There are TWO Express loops, trains go round and round and round, and I never touch them. Oc course the layout is so convoluted, nobody knows that this is happening.
Then there is the poin to point. or tather a point to loop, that is the local track, it leaves 242nd street terminal, travels 4.5 miles to south ferry on the southbound track, turns the loop at the ferry and then return 4.5 miles on the northbound track. The round trip on this line is 20 minutes, and I ren many trains at once abour 4 minutes apart.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
GP-9_Man11786 Heartland Division CB&Q Loop to loop works very well for me. I have a long double track main line with a loop at each end. So, it is possible to have continuous running. However, when operating, I can treat either end or both ends as points if I choose to do so. i take a very similar approach, only with two loops that double back on themselves. This allows me to model the fourt-track Pennsy main line. I enjoy how this gives me the feel of pain to point and a train actually traveling from point a to point b, but still lets me just watch the trains and be a railfan.
Great news for you. BLI N Scale M1 is coming soon. I got to see it at a train show recently.
Point to point with some way of running it as a loop for visitors watching.
CZ
Mine is point to point with each end connected by a hidden return with staging tracks. My thoughts were that I could operate it, but be able to just let a train do loops when I just felt like watching. Do not know how it will work for me, because I ran one train upon track completion, then put tape over the track while I am doing plaster and rock casting.
Both.
Because variety is fun.
- Douglas
I don't really have a preference.
My 3 rail O gauge is a loop eventually 2 loops with staging so I can have several trains set up even though only 2 run at a time.
My under construction S scale layout is point to point. But I plan to have a drop in bridge across the end points that will allow loop operation when I want it.
Enjoy
Paul
Point to Point..
Makes you feel like your going some where instead of (if I may) here it comes,there it goes,here it comes again and there it goes again and again and again..That's what I saw and thought during this week's county fair run a thon.After 3 days of that I was singing "Here we go loopy loo".
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I am in the process of completting my double track layout. It will feature a ten track staging yard that will be accessed from both ends of the layout so it will point to point, but track 10 (the nearest to the wall can be used for continuous running as well.
My track plan has both, simply because I want to have trains running "in the background" as it were, which I will have to dodge occasionally when I am doing my back and forth stuff.
Sounds like a good recipe for a cornfield meet actually!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
BRAKIEMakes you feel like your going some where instead of (if I may) here it comes,there it goes,here it comes again and there it goes again and again and again..That's what I saw and thought during this week's county fair run a thon.After 3 days of that I was singing "Here we go loopy loo".
Reread Sheldon's post.
You can have a continuous design without around the Christmas tree style operation. A particular train would only run through the visable portion of the layout once. When it's run is over, it is staged for the next session. This scheme is particularly useful when you're running open top cars. Empty hoppers going in both directions is at least as disturbing as a train running laps.
If I had the space, my layout would be done in the same style as Sheldon's. Since I'm building a multi-deck layout and have space to go up but not to get back down, I'm building loop to loop. I'll just have to manually stage loads and empties between sessions.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I Run a loop layout with 7 track yard for doing switching. No room for staging. I do hide some track with a tunnel and buildings I am using as a view block.
My last two layouts were larger shelf types which naturally favor point to point, but I always put a loop in somehow. It can be hidden, of course or a larger natural turn around loop at each end.
I don't like big yards a two or three line ladder track with no more than 5-8 cars at most. Most cars are spotted at loading and unloading points. Narrow gauge short lines have no need for large yards. Very few cars just sitting around in a yard.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Well I am a DC 3 cab control user and have a elongated double track continuous main-line with industries in and out of both mains. One end of layout is a ISL 15ft long, that You only see one of the double track lines, the other is behind the industry background buildings, that leads into a 6 track double ended staging, that will hold 4 complete trains. I run a East/West arrangement, so one train can pull in and another will take it's place. I know eactly how long it takes for a train to complete a transverse and when 1 train gets the furthest away, I can jump on one of the mains and go to an industry and clear the main before the train comes by....usually in the opposite direction. I did it that way so three operators can continuously run, without interferance from any other train. All industries, are well off the mains. I don't need passing sidings....I use the Mains for that with eight crossovers. I can even pass a train with that set up. My only problem I have....is that I'm getting old...(73) and I'll probably never complete, all the scenery. 8 1/2x 30x 6 1/2 and I took 20ft off of it.....It was built in sections, bolted together 30 yrs ago. Time just went by too fast. I use 3 MRC 20's, trains only....not used for anything else....everything else, has it's own power supply.
Take Care!
Frank
carl425 BRAKIE Makes you feel like your going some where instead of (if I may) here it comes,there it goes,here it comes again and there it goes again and again and again..That's what I saw and thought during this week's county fair run a thon.After 3 days of that I was singing "Here we go loopy loo". Reread Sheldon's post. You can have a continuous design without around the Christmas tree style operation. A particular train would only run through the visable portion of the layout once. When it's run is over, it is staged for the next session. This scheme is particularly useful when you're running open top cars. Empty hoppers going in both directions is at least as disturbing as a train running laps. If I had the space, my layout would be done in the same style as Sheldon's. Since I'm building a multi-deck layout and have space to go up but not to get back down, I'm building loop to loop. I'll just have to manually stage loads and empties between sessions.
BRAKIE Makes you feel like your going some where instead of (if I may) here it comes,there it goes,here it comes again and there it goes again and again and again..That's what I saw and thought during this week's county fair run a thon.After 3 days of that I was singing "Here we go loopy loo".
I have no need to reread Sheldon's post since my five loop layouts was operated as out and back branch lines.I still perfer operatiing on point to point layouts where trains terminates in a yard or passenger terminal and needs to be switched..
There's no experience like operating on a single track point to point layouts with passing sidings for meets and running completely different train on your return trip to your "home" terminal.
jjdamnit What's your particular preference on layout design and operation. My question is..."Loop vs. Point to Point...What's your preference?" And, here's the kicker...don't tell us why others fall short but rather why you enjoy your particular operation.
My current layout is a continuous loop double mainline with point to point incorporated within the continuous loop. And the continuous loop is formed in a P-shape, if you will, so that the loop formation is not obvious. From start to finish, the double mainline is 168 linear feet, so the time to complete one loop is fairly long, virtually eliminating the thought of 'here we go loopty loo'.
While trains are running in both directions on the double mainline, I can conduct operations on the point to point throught the use of a 10-track downtown passenger station, an 8-track passenger coach yard, a 9-track freight yard, and an engine servicing facility with turntable and roundhouse.
Rich
Alton Junction
I prefer to have a loop of track on which to do "continuous running". I can actually watch the trains just go round-n-round fro at least an hour before I get itchy to do some "operations".
With a small "yard" inside my ovals, I can "play" with assembling/disassembing a train, for instance.
And assemblng, round-n-round and disassembling, I can easiy get about 2-3 hours of "play" out of my mini HO scale layout {3.5' x 5.1' !!}.
I can also play point-to-point, If I have the desire to, just don't let them go all the way around...
But that is just me.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
My design criteria calls for a point to point for operations but incorporating a loop de loop on the off chance that Larry should visit. Cheers, the Bear.
After you get the layout built I'll see if the board of directors of CDBI will let me use the company's Lear jet..
BRAKIEThat's what I saw and thought during this week's county fair run a thon.After 3 days of that I was singing "Here we go loopy loo".
Yup. even on a 14 mile system runing the local train agfainst the wall is rather boring. This is why I automated the trains, and instead, run the railroad.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Maybe I should offer a few more thoughts:
Again, my layout operates as point to point for operating sessions.
Only passenger trains are "recycled" in the same session - I model an era when passenger service was making its last big push.
My main visable yard is BIG, to handle long trains - I like long mainline trains - the yard is 20' long - 1740 scale feet.....
Even in my 960 sq foot layout room I don't have space for two visable yards that size on each "end" of the main line - so I only model one yard/citiy/industrial area and model the traffic in and out of that "one place".
BUT the main line sections leading from the staging to that "place" are long enough to give a sense of going somewhere else - just that somewhere else is not modeled.
Actually it is a bunch of "somewhere else places" because different diverging routes and interchanges leave the visable portion of the layout at different places.
So there is a sense that when you leave the modeled portion, you are connected to the rest of the world - not just one destination.........
Others will make different compromises, I will not compromise the abiltiy to run long trains, I will not compromise the ability to have display running for visitors.
I don't really want to model every functional feature twice..........
What I do works for me.
I have friend who models the PRR - his layout fills a 1200 sq ft basement and has three decks - but his trains never leave the Baltimore metro area of the PRR in 1946. He has a 10 foot long model of Baltimore's Penn station complex - its all in what your interests are. His layout is great fun to operate - his mainlines all go off stage to loop staging.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I have friend who models the PRR - his layouts fills a basement and has three decks - but his trains never leave the Baltimore metro area of the PRR in 1946. He has a 10 foot long model of Baltimore's Penn station complex - its all in what your interests are. His layout is great fun to operate - his mainlines all go off stage to loop staging.
I have friend who models the PRR - his layouts fills a basement and has three decks - but his trains never leave the Baltimore metro area of the PRR in 1946. He has a 10 foot long model of Baltimore's Penn station complex - its all in what your interests are. His layout is great fun to operate - his mainlines all go off stage to loop staging.
Alton Junction is a mere 13 blocks from Dearborn Station, and it would require 42 feet of layout space to reflect the prototype. So, like Sheldon's example, I would need 42 feet to represent only 13 blocks, a little more than 1 1/2 miles to scale.
But, trains would disappear from the main layout into a hidden reverse loop so that the illusion of time and space would be there before the departing trains reappear. The reverse loop would also be used to re-route the trains to the C&WI coach yard off to the side of the main layout, so that they need not immediately return to Dearborn Station.
Completing the layout would be a continuous loop around the periphery to accommodate non-Dearborn trains, mainly freight. That continuous loop would not be obvious when viewing the main layout which would be devoted to the prototype run from Alton Junction to Dearborn Station.
As Sheldon said, it's all in what your interests are.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL I have friend who models the PRR - his layouts fills a basement and has three decks - but his trains never leave the Baltimore metro area of the PRR in 1946. He has a 10 foot long model of Baltimore's Penn station complex - its all in what your interests are. His layout is great fun to operate - his mainlines all go off stage to loop staging. I am contemplating a new layout that would model Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago with its stub end 10-track stub configuration. Leading out of the station would be the C&WI 4-track mainline to Alton Junction and beyond. Alton Junction is a mere 13 blocks from Dearborn Station, and it would require 42 feet of layout space to reflect the prototype. So, like Sheldon's example, I would need 42 feet to represent only 13 blocks, a little more than 1 1/2 miles to scale. But, trains would disappear from the main layout into a hidden reverse loop so that the illusion of time and space would be there before the departing trains reappear. The reverse loop would also be used to re-route the trains to the C&WI coach yard off to the side of the main layout, so that they need not immediately return to Dearborn Station. Completing the layout would be a continuous loop around the periphery to accommodate non-Dearborn trains, mainly freight. That continuous loop would not be obvious when viewing the main layout which would be devoted to the prototype run from Alton Junction to Dearborn Station. As Sheldon said, it's all in what your interests are. Rich
I am contemplating a new layout that would model Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago with its stub end 10-track stub configuration. Leading out of the station would be the C&WI 4-track mainline to Alton Junction and beyond.
Rich,
That sounds like a great layout concept - go for it!
Sheldon,Staging to staging with a large center yard isn't a bad idea-you can have run through trains stop for crew change(in theory) and you can have trains to originate or terminate in that yard.
I was a member of a club that had two small yards with two staging yards and the end results was the visitors never had to watch the same trains since the trains could disappear into staging or terminate in one of the yards.
The biggest crowd pleaser was watching switching operations or watching a steam or diesel engine take a spin on the turntable.Kids love watching that!
Ever watch one train enter the yard while another was leaving? Quite the crowd pleaser. There was always train movement on the main lines or in the yards.
BTW..The staging yards was connected by a hidden track so loads always went North to either a off layout lake port or power plant (aka North staging) and the empties South to the off layout mines(aka South staging).