fa-1 help on putting on KD #148 whisker couplers on an old[1990's] atlas/kato C425 loco? there is just a post where screw goes in, no coupler box. DCC is installed already. thanks FA-1
help on putting on KD #148 whisker couplers on an old[1990's] atlas/kato C425 loco? there is just a post where screw goes in, no coupler box. DCC is installed already.
thanks FA-1
I have more than enough Kadee's since I bought a whole box of over 200 for peanuts as this person changed over to one of Kadee's other couplers. That being said I let them run till they fail and then use #5's. A word of note, Kadee #5 were not always the same and on rare occasion I have run across an earlier version. They look the same but the shaft is a bit different and thicker and won't fit in a standard box. Have a bunch of logging disconects that I run as a batch so haven't changed out their old time Kadee pin type coupler, even that one was better than others at the time.
J.Rob I replace every coupler with Kadee whisker couplers. On older stock that I buy at train shows I do the same, even if it has the older coupler with the flat metal spring. If you run short trains you can get away with the others, one of my longer trains is in the users video section and you can see why I use kadees and do not consider the alternatives. It is easier to change them when building than to have bad order cars show up over and over ruining the enjoyment of train time.
I replace every coupler with Kadee whisker couplers. On older stock that I buy at train shows I do the same, even if it has the older coupler with the flat metal spring.
If you run short trains you can get away with the others, one of my longer trains is in the users video section and you can see why I use kadees and do not consider the alternatives. It is easier to change them when building than to have bad order cars show up over and over ruining the enjoyment of train time.
That works for me since cannot run trains over abour 7 cars or so. As the couplers fail my preference is KD 148.
Joe Staten Island West
jecorbettI guess it's a matter of preference and cost. I've never seen the springs on a #5 go bad after it's been installed. I have discovered a few bad ones that got damaged prior to installation. The 148s just have one less thing to worry about, so they are my preference now, but I see no reason to replace working #5s. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I might have misread someones post; I thought someone was removing their #5 KD's and replacing them.
I too have the odd bend or mangled bronze spring, but most are fine. Like many, I now prefer the whisker versions - the only down side is they are more expensive - MRSP #5/pair is $1.39 and #148/pair $1.72. I did pick up a bulk pack of #58 with bronze springs recently at a show because it was on a close out price, but don't plan on buying anymore. I always try to fit the bronze spring version first to try to use them up, but if the whisker are better, I'll go with them - case by case.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 I've never heard of anyone having to replace the tradtional KD#5 the flat metal spring before, swapping it out with the whisker version. It's pretty universal that they've always been considered rock solid and industry standard.
I've never heard of anyone having to replace the tradtional KD#5 the flat metal spring before, swapping it out with the whisker version. It's pretty universal that they've always been considered rock solid and industry standard.
I guess it's a matter of preference and cost. I've never seen the springs on a #5 go bad after it's been installed. I have discovered a few bad ones that got damaged prior to installation. The 148s just have one less thing to worry about, so they are my preference now, but I see no reason to replace working #5s. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I standardized everythying with KD #5's. I never have a problem, even on grades and they are well worth it on every car and loco that they fit.
riogrande5761 As for zero tolerance, I too will take plastic clones and replace them with KD's when they fail or are a problem. I have many cars with plastic clones right now, because I have many Atlas and Athearn RTR cars - unit coal trains etc., to the tune of a couple hundred plus cars - so I can't afford to change them all out right now.
As for zero tolerance, I too will take plastic clones and replace them with KD's when they fail or are a problem. I have many cars with plastic clones right now, because I have many Atlas and Athearn RTR cars - unit coal trains etc., to the tune of a couple hundred plus cars - so I can't afford to change them all out right now.
Of all the KD clones, what I refer to as Brand X, the two piece couplers that come with Atlas RTR rolling stock may be the absolute worst performing. For the most part, I have a high opinion of the quality of Atlas products, but I have no idea what the were thinking when they came up with that two piece coupler.
Many would probably agree with you on the 148's which is why I bought them over 158's, that they would be more reliable - especially when uneven track or couplers out of vertical could cause false uncoupling. A bigger, coupler would stay coupled under a greater mismatch than a #58 scale head would.
As for type of rolling stock, I don't tend to buy based on kit only or high RTR only, rather I try to match up appropriate rolling stock with typical freight cars of my RR and era. So I have anything ranging from blue box Athearn, Accurail, Walthers redbox kits to RTR Intermountain, Exactrail and Tangent cars. For better or worse, ExactRail cars seem to all come with Kadee scale head couplers. I haven't changed out any of my ExactRail couplers. Intermountain for some years all come with KD#5 IIRC. Walthres now have the metal KD clones which seem nearly as good as KD's.
riogrande5761 I'm snooty too, but I can't afford to replace all of my plastic clones at once. Since I'm not made of money, my plan is to replace couplers over time. Any kit that I build gets KD's right off the bat. Cars that come RTR plastic clones get replaced first with problematic couplers and hopefully eventually all of them will be.
I'm snooty too, but I can't afford to replace all of my plastic clones at once. Since I'm not made of money, my plan is to replace couplers over time. Any kit that I build gets KD's right off the bat. Cars that come RTR plastic clones get replaced first with problematic couplers and hopefully eventually all of them will be.
I've gone the other route. Much of my freight car fleet is Accurail and some lower end RTR. Saving money on the car itself allows me to add KDs and Proto 2000 wheelsets. I sacrifice some detail but to me if it operates well and looks OK, that's my definition of good enough.
I may have overstated it when I said it doesn't go on the layout until it has a KD. That applies to new additions. Before I adopted the KD only policy, I built up my fleet using a variety of equipment using whatever it came with. I plan to eventually go through the whole fleet and install KDs, but until then, I've adopted a zero tolerence policy for Brand X couplers. If they fail once to couple or uncouple, I stop what I'm doing and take it straight to the workbench were it immediately gets a KD.
I experinemnted briefly with the 158s but I didn't think they were quite as reliable as the 148s. I've since replace them with the 148s and rather than discard the 158s, I will put those on the passenger cars which don't see as much switching.
Thankfully, many RTR cars I have bought in the past 5 years come with Kadee's now, such as ExactRail or Intermountain. Unfortunately Athearn/Genesis and Atlas - two of our leading MR manufacturers, still come with inferior quality plastic clones that will need to be replaced. I've had some of those on my D&RGW SD engines display poor characteristics in the limited time I've operated them.
I have on hand right now several bulk packages of KD's from KD#5 (standard with bronze springs), #58 (scale head with bronze spring), and #148 (whisker). I just draw from those bit by bit until I have to buy another package. The only reason why I have the #58 bulk pack is I picked it up at close out at a train show, and the #5 bulk pack have had for some years.
That said, the couplers with the bronze springs are certainly useful so what I do is try them out first, and if they work smoothly, they get used. If not, I go to the whisker couplers as they seem to be a bit more forgiving or flexable. Eventually when the bronze spring versions get used up, I will probably only buy whiskers going forward - unless I get a bulkpack of bronze spring cheap.
I'm pretty snooty when it comes to couplers. It doesn't go on the layout until it has a KD. Most of the couplers that come with either the kits or the RTR are junk IMHO. I used to use #5s but have since switched to the 148s, the whisker equivalent of the #5. Buy them in bulk packs of 25 or 50 pair and you'll save a lot.
hobo9941 When I buy train stuff online, I just add a pack of 20 Kadees to the order, and save on the shipping and the tax. By the way, what is the Kadee number for the close coupleing couplers for F units?
When I buy train stuff online, I just add a pack of 20 Kadees to the order, and save on the shipping and the tax.
By the way, what is the Kadee number for the close coupleing couplers for F units?
Kadee #450 are the close coupling kits for Stewart F units. I'm not sure about other brands of F's. Genesis F's use a different coupler.
I did some searching and found the following comments about Genesis F units:
the Biggest problem I have had with coupler replacement on these engines is the fact that the draft gear box is set up for the Mchenry couplers that come with the engine these couplers are adaquate for a home layout where train lengths don't exceed ten cars or more on club length 20 plus car trains they are a disaster The plastic McHenry coupler Shank is .038 thick a KD #43 or #5 with the spring is .048 a 143 or 148 whisker is .050 thick you do the math in order for either KD to center properly material must be evenly removed from the Hat section center of the lower cover to just about flush with the edges of the cover If it isin't when the flat screw is torqued down to prevent the whole draft gear box from moving the coupler wont move. Backing off the screw will allow the coupler to move but then so will the draft gear box it is held in place by a small pin in the top half of the draft gear box and a corresponding hole in the rear of the copupler pad on the frame and to add to that the whole coupler assembly sets about .013 too low and prevents it from going into a NMRA coupler height gage One way around this is to use a #158 scale head in the front and a #153 short shank in the rear (shank thickness is still .050 but the head is smaller) It still wont enter the gauge but it will be a smidge higher and you can bend up the gladhand to prevent it from snagging track magnets Because I have access to a milling machine I got real anal and disassembled all the components from the frame and removed .020 from both coupler pads You'd think that Athearn would realize that some people would want to use other couplers that the Mchenry's that they supply and adjust the draft gear boxes accordingly
these couplers are adaquate for a home layout where train lengths don't exceed ten cars or more on club length 20 plus car trains they are a disaster The plastic McHenry coupler Shank is .038 thick a KD #43 or #5 with the spring is .048 a 143 or 148 whisker is .050 thick you do the math in order for either KD to center properly material must be evenly removed from the Hat section center of the lower cover to just about flush with the edges of the cover If it isin't when the flat screw is torqued down to prevent the whole draft gear box from moving the coupler wont move. Backing off the screw will allow the coupler to move but then so will the draft gear box it is held in place by a small pin in the top half of the draft gear box and a corresponding hole in the rear of the copupler pad on the frame and to add to that the whole coupler assembly sets about .013 too low and prevents it from going into a NMRA coupler height gage One way around this is to use a #158 scale head in the front and a #153 short shank in the rear (shank thickness is still .050 but the head is smaller) It still wont enter the gauge but it will be a smidge higher and you can bend up the gladhand to prevent it from snagging track magnets Because I have access to a milling machine I got real anal and disassembled all the components from the frame and removed .020 from both coupler pads You'd think that Athearn would realize that some people would want to use other couplers that the Mchenry's that they supply and adjust the draft gear boxes accordingly
Here are a couple more comments on Kadee's for Genesis F's:
[quote]I use Kadee 143s with the whisker centering springs
in the stock Genesis pockets with good results[/quot]
Use #153 couplers in the #252 box...this box is for mounts with limited space.
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
PM Railfan Mister B and Rich - The Dos Equis parady is hilarius! "Stay coupled my friends."
Mister B and Rich - The Dos Equis parady is hilarius! "Stay coupled my friends."
Rich
Alton Junction
I don't change over to KaDee's till the old coupler breaks.I have some cars that still have their Accumates after 5 yeasrs of daily use.On the other hand if I am doing mounts to replace talgo couplers I usually use KaDees.
My motto when it comes to couplers is"If it ain't broke,don't fix it."
Regg05,
That price on Amazon sounds real high, unless it was for the bigger bulk pack of 40 pair or 50 pair.
FYI you can get bulk packs of Kadee #5 (20 pair) normally for about $22 at www.modeltrainstuff.com. the scale head #58 are a little higher at $26 for (20 pair). They are on sale right now for $20 and 25, respectively. Just sayin...
MisterBeasley
Medina1128 I use Kadees uncoupling magnets, and one thing I've noticed with Kadee clones, the trip pin must be made out of a different alloy with a lower ferrous metal alloy content. This results in the coupler not swinging over as far, especially when using the delayed uncoupler magnets.
I use Kadees uncoupling magnets, and one thing I've noticed with Kadee clones, the trip pin must be made out of a different alloy with a lower ferrous metal alloy content. This results in the coupler not swinging over as far, especially when using the delayed uncoupler magnets.
I've noticed the same. not sure if is the material of the "trip pin' or a stronger centering spring that does this.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I bought the Proto Max couplers for under $25 for a bulk pack of 40 which is enough to do 20 cars. These are metal and look very similar to the Kadee #5. It's not going to be enough to replace all my rolling stock stock couplers but it will be enough for a 1/3 of my inventory. Which is enough for me at the moment. Again didn't have the money for a bulk pack of Kadee's at the time which I saw on Amazon for about $45. My LHS had these on sale and no Kadees in stock. Eventually when I buy again I will buy the Kadees.
I just found bulk Kadee's on ebay, a pack of 50 pair, at $1.37 per pair including shipping. This is well worth the effort to standardize your fleet with reliable and strong coupling. I replaced a lot of couplers with McHenry a few years ago, mainly Rivarossi passenger cars, but now plan to replace those with Kadee's. I have had a lot of failures with plastic couplers and will eventually replace ALL of them. To me this is one of those things that just isn't worth cutting cost on.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
dstarr It's like this. Kadee invented the HO knuckle coupler back in the '60s. It became the choice of all model railroaders. Kadee's patents expired in the 1990's, and a bunch of makers came out with clone couplers. The clones intermate with each other and with Kadee. By now pretty much all rolling stock comes equipped with a clone coupler of some brand or other. They work well enough that I leave them in place until they actually fail in service. A lot of my clones are still running. The ones that fail I replace with Kadee's, usually a #5. In the hobby shop, I can get Kadees for the same price as the clones, so why not get the best? Kadee sells 10 packs and 20 packs of #5s for $1 a coupler ($2 a pair) less draft gear, which is fine, you seldom need draft gear. Some people replace all clone couplers with Kadee's on general principles. I don't bother, the clones are pretty good, and a lot of 'em work fine and last a long time.
It's like this. Kadee invented the HO knuckle coupler back in the '60s. It became the choice of all model railroaders. Kadee's patents expired in the 1990's, and a bunch of makers came out with clone couplers. The clones intermate with each other and with Kadee. By now pretty much all rolling stock comes equipped with a clone coupler of some brand or other. They work well enough that I leave them in place until they actually fail in service. A lot of my clones are still running. The ones that fail I replace with Kadee's, usually a #5. In the hobby shop, I can get Kadees for the same price as the clones, so why not get the best? Kadee sells 10 packs and 20 packs of #5s for $1 a coupler ($2 a pair) less draft gear, which is fine, you seldom need draft gear.
Some people replace all clone couplers with Kadee's on general principles. I don't bother, the clones are pretty good, and a lot of 'em work fine and last a long time.
Actually, Kadee invented their knuckle couplers in the mid-1950's. The magnetic ones came out in the early 1960s. The early ones had no lip on the inside of the knuckle, and were operated by a diamond-shaped ramp which when raised, forced pins on the knuckles apart.
I use the #153 "Semi-scale" head, short-shank "whisker" couplers almost exclusively now on the FHN since my minimum radius is 26" in the yard, the closer coupling distance looks better. The clones go straight to trash (they never have "scale" heads), along with plastic trucks/wheels.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
While some go for the closer to scale head Kadee #58, some also like the traditional #5 because they are larger, they are less likely to come uncoupled due to mismatch in height or uneven track. I have a mix, many of my cars hae KD#5 and some have #58, such as ExactRail.