I recently returned to the hobby after a 20 year absence ( daughter announced she was having a baby boy ) I pulled out all my HO scale rolling stock, structures etc. I decided to go with DCC over DC, I purchased 6 assorted DCC w/ sound engines and the Digitrax Zephyr Extra system, I am now starting to wire the layout, ( at least the sections where I have track layed). I have been asked numerous time why did I return to HO scale and not N scale. My answer was always because I had a bunch of HO scale product already, now I find myself wondering if I would have been happier, content or whatever if I had decided to start a new in N scale, thinking how much more I could have done with the space I have with an N scale layout. I was wondering how many others out there second guessed their choice of scale and how many of us have actually started over from scratch in a new scale.
I've started over a few times and always in the same scale, HO, for the reason that I kept all the equipment I could. The only way I'd switch scales is if everything was totally lost somehow. If I switched, I'd probably go to a larger scale, O-n3 maybe... But honestly, I'd not start another layout. I'd keep modeling, but not a whole layout. (I'm too slow)
At 56, I like HO, and am FINALLY starting on scenery and detailing the layout that took 14 years to get to that point. I think HO offers the greatest balance between detail, operation, and available items desired. It's big enough that I can still SEE what I've built. (Need readers these days) Dan
I have started all over a number of times and have, in some instances, changed scales. I have been into HO scale, dabbled around with N and Z scale, built a layout in HOn30 (9mm gauge) and have started a On30 layout, which will most likely not get finished, as I have grossly underestimated the space requirement for structures.
Being 58 years of age, I look back to more than 50 years in this hobby and, despite being unhappy with what I am currently doing, won´t give up on it. As I can´t grow the space I have, I am pondering to change scales again, back to HO. It´ll be HOn3 this time, as I still have a brass model of A D&RGW T-12, bought 40 years ago and never seen it run.
woodmanI find myself wondering if I would have been happier, content or whatever if I had decided to start a new in N scale, thinking how much more I could have done with the space I have with an N scale layout. I was wondering how many others out there second guessed their choice of scale and how many of us have actually started over from scratch in a new scale.
Been there done that several times over the years and even tried modeling in both scales at the same time.
Anyway two years ago I sold my N Scale and since then I have often wondered if I should have kept my N and sold my HO.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I was heavy into Model RR when a kid in the 1950s, had both an American Flyer layout with my brother and HO stuff of my own. Most of my neighbor buddies had HO stuff. At this time HO was the scale that people who loved to build models used, as it was very realistic, right out of the box. O-Scale existed and was great for people with lots of room and money. However, for less than two dollars I could buy an Athearn; or, MDC Roundhouse kit. Just after I got married, I started building more MDC Roundhouse kits for my someday RR.
I still had some of my original equipment and the stuff I had built just after getting married when I got back into the hobby and my natural instinct was to go with HO. A purchase of a Walthers Catalog when I came back confirmed that HO offered the most stuff for sale. I have been with the hobby now for more than 25 years and even the larger size of HO equipment is getting harder to see at my age. So, I have been happy with my choice. Anyway, the size of the layout is less important than dynamic-ness of it's design. This magazine attempts to demonstrate this fact with almost all of the layouts they build as starter layouts within the magazines pages.
I have nothing but the highest regard for model railroading in any scale. HO has worked well for me. Make a choice and then don't agonize over having made it. Then again, change scales if you feel the change makes sense!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Space, size, availability.
Those are the three criteria for me.
Space - If you are limited in space or want to pack more into your space, N scale trumps HO scale.
Size - N scale is smaller than HO but harder to work with and more difficult to see detail when doing work.
Availability - HO scale offers everything for structures and road names (locos and rolling stock), N scale does not.
For those reasons, I stick with HO with no desire to move to N.
Applying the same criteria, I would move to S scale in a heartbeat based upon size, but space and availability are unfavorable criteria.
Rich
Alton Junction
My 2-1/2 year under progress layout is HO, following 3 experiences also HO in Jr High, in 1980 and lately my grandson's Bachmann EZ Track 4x6 layout. I think an experienced based decision, like ours, would be easier than for a first timer. I like to build my own freight cars plus structure kits and have gotten into DCC decoder installs, and I think I would find it rather difficult (for me) to do in N scale. Of course, I would much enjoy the layout flexibility in my limited space that N would provide.
As an example in favor of HO (for me), I recently had to change the eccentric rod (which I managed to break) on my Genesis challenger. I it were N scale, I pretty sure I'd have had to get Athearn or the LHS to do it for me. And I do appeciate being in the scale, as Rich points out, with the widest availability of items.
But it's alot about preferences.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
In this day and age - the COST of changing scales (especially if one already has a large collection) is going to really cost a bunch!
Selling equipment will only yeld 10 cents on the dollar, if that!
When I purchase USED cars etc. I will only pay $5.00 - so that is what you can expect to get for your stuff!
BUT you would have to purchase new at almost full price unless you want to live at the train shows in trying to purchase specific Rolling Stock to match a certain Era!
As for getting more into a given area - it is doubtful you would gain much as the Human that needs the Aisle Space is just the same size - YES you will gain visual train length but the track lenght will be still the same number of actual feet!
And as we age the Eyes don't work anymore so seeing those N Scale cars is going to be a lot harder to uncouple.
But the COST is the real problem and as EVERYONE on this FORUM complains - the cost of new Engines and Cars is too much!
I guess no one really sits down and really considers what it costs to do some of the - Less than Smart Ideas -SOME on here throw out!
I get this all of the time over at the CLub - Someone will throw out an idea and everyone jumps on it - until I ask some simple questions like:
How much will it Cost
Will it fit in the area we have
Who is going to work on this
Suddenly - the Bright Idea - turns out to be a pretty DUMB Idea!
Amazing!
I guess NO ONE Thinks about the concequences of their Thoughts or Actions!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts I guess NO ONE Thinks about the concequences of their Thoughts or Actions!
Stop it, Bob, I don't want to think about it!
cmrproductsSelling equipment will only yeld 10 cents on the dollar, if that!
Depends.
When I sold my N Scale my "return" was around 40-50 cents on the dollar.Of course I had top end stuff with MT trucks/ couplers and around 30% of the cars had body mounted MT couplers.One MT 50' boxcar sold for $55.00 because it was a hard to find car.I found it for $8.00 at a train show.
I have sold some rare one run wonder road name Bev-Bel/Athearn cars and made 3-4 times what I paid..
If you are buliding a layout to entice a child I would have chosen Lionel, but HO is OK. N is a little more delicate for small hands. I model in both HO and N (N is my main). The cost is about the same, but some N gauge stuff is hard to find. At my age the eyes are telling me to go back to HO permanently but I still have to use reading glasses when doing work in HO.
BRAKIE cmrproducts Selling equipment will only yeld 10 cents on the dollar, if that! Depends. When I sold my N Scale my "return" was around 40-50 cents on the dollar.Of course I had top end stuff with MT trucks/ couplers and around 30% of the cars had body mounted MT couplers.One MT 50' boxcar sold for $55.00 because it was a hard to find car.I found it for $8.00 at a train show. I have sold some rare one run wonder road name Bev-Bel/Athearn cars and made 3-4 times what I paid..
cmrproducts Selling equipment will only yeld 10 cents on the dollar, if that!
YES - N Scale commands a better price for those COLLECTOR N Scalers
But the HO market - that isn't so!
The OP was stating going from HO to N - so what I stated is true!
Why the N Scalers will pay such high prices for a car is beyone me as once the car is on the layout COLLECTOR value is GONE - just as it is in LIONEL!
A Fool and his money are soon Parted!
I started in N scale back in 1974 and built a few layouts throughout the rest of the 70's. Packed it all away (school, marriage, etc) and then returned to N scale in the mid 80's. I was still an N scaler until '93 when I decided to go HO. HO was then my primary scale until a few months ago when I decided I would much rather do N scale. The HO layout that I began a few years back came completely down and I started building some benchwork for my N layout last night.
For me, N scale is the right scale to build a layout in. I'm not sure if it's because I started pretty much in the beginning or what.
I still like to dabble in narrow gauge stuff, preferably Sn3 and On30.
Thankfully my wife is understanding!
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
With Lionel thats not always true it depends on the equiptment. Granted it has more value in its original box but even without it Lionel fetches a pretty penny. Oh and new Lionel is ridicously overpriced IMHO.
Anyway as far as HO and N its a matter of supply and demand I suppose. Fewer N scale relative to demand fetches higher prices .
Joe Staten Island West
The investment argument is all wrong. This is a hobby not a retirement plan. You do this for fun. If you're not having fun with your current scale then change. Spend your future hobby dollars where you will have fun.
Cost - as John Armstrong once said: All scales cost the same - all you can afford. If your hobby budget is really tight like <$50/month go with HO, it's got lots of really low cost items. Otherwise go with the scale you like, you just buy at a pace you can afford. After several years you'll be amazed at how much you have regardless of scale.
Personally, I have changed scales twice. I started in HO and decided that was just too small. So I switched to O - really neat for building models. But I found O was too big for the layout I wanted. So I switched to S and like Goldilocks I found it to be just right. After 20+ years in S, I have tons of stuff, mostly bought a little at a time and taking advantage of sales that occur from time to time.
As for selling my HO or O. Are you crazy? what if want to switch again? I have all my HO and O - some of it's gotten to be collectibile, although not for big bucks. I even buy HO and O from time to time when something interests me - I know, I know, I have become a COLLECTOR. But it's all fun.
Enjoy
IRONROOSTER The investment argument is all wrong. This is a hobby not a retirement plan. You do this for fun. If you're not having fun with your current scale then change. Spend your future hobby dollars where you will have fun. Cost - as John Armstrong once said: All scales cost the same - all you can afford. If your hobby budget is really tight like <$50/month go with HO, it's got lots of really low cost items. Otherwise go with the scale you like, you just buy at a pace you can afford. After several years you'll be amazed at how much you have regardless of scale. Personally, I have changed scales twice. I started in HO and decided that was just too small. So I switched to O - really neat for building models. But I found O was too big for the layout I wanted. So I switched to S and like Goldilocks I found it to be just right. After 20+ years in S, I have tons of stuff, mostly bought a little at a time and taking advantage of sales that occur from time to time. As for selling my HO or O. Are you crazy? what if want to switch again? I have all my HO and O - some of it's gotten to be collectibile, although not for big bucks. I even buy HO and O from time to time when something interests me - I know, I know, I have become a COLLECTOR. But it's all fun. Enjoy Paul
While it might be for YOU - It isn't for many Others!
I have seen the prices paid for COLLECTIBLE N Scale and one guy I know has over 2000 pieces of N Scale - all in the little plastic boxes (and WHY do they sell the N Scale cars in Little clear Plastic boxes - if it wasn't supposed to be COLLECTABLE)
and they are all on the shelf!
Doesnt even have a layout!
cmrproducts While it might be for YOU - It isn't for many Others! I have seen the prices paid for COLLECTIBLE N Scale and one guy I know has over 2000 pieces of N Scale - all in the little plastic boxes (and WHY do they sell the N Scale cars in Little clear Plastic boxes - if it wasn't supposed to be COLLECTABLE) and they are all on the shelf! Doesnt even have a layout! BOB H - Clarion, PA
I am glad this did not degrade to a "battle of the scales". Many great and wise comments from the old boys.
Being an old boy myself, my only scale change occurred in 1959 when very young. I went from Lionel O scale to HO scale and have never left it over about 4 or 5 different layouts. For me, with my space, HO is best. I never hoped to have an empire of rail and have always modeled free lance, keeping well clear of anything prototypical.
In my current effort, after about 12 years out of the game, I am in HOn3. The narrow gauge was always a major interest, but the lack of R-T-R materials held me back. Going to HOn3 was easy upon my return due to Blackstone and a number of other names that supplied R-T-R locos with DCC and sound as well as rolling stock cars. The great news was that I could keep about 40% of my old, stored HO buildings, automotive cars, trucks and people as the era matched my old HO effort with my current HOn3 effort.
The gauge change did prove rather costly, but that's just part of the MR game.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
trwroute cmrproducts While it might be for YOU - It isn't for many Others! I have seen the prices paid for COLLECTIBLE N Scale and one guy I know has over 2000 pieces of N Scale - all in the little plastic boxes (and WHY do they sell the N Scale cars in Little clear Plastic boxes - if it wasn't supposed to be COLLECTABLE) and they are all on the shelf! Doesnt even have a layout! BOB H - Clarion, PA You are lumping all N scalers in the 'Collector' category. I do have a few in a display cabinet that I don't run, but I would venture a guess and say that most modelers have some they like to display. Nothing wrong with that. Your friend is doing exactly what he wants. Would you rather they use thin cardboard boxes? Why does Kadee put their HO cars in BIG plastic boxes? You would have a coronary if you could see some of the collections that I have seen. That still doesn't make me want to be a collector...I am a N modeler and proud of it!
Chuck
Never said that Running N Scale was bad! I have run on a couple that work better than some HO layouts!
Others were trying to state the Cost of selling N Scale and a person paid $55.00 for a used N Scale car and it wsas infered that selling your HO to purchase N or the other way around YOU would recoup your investment!
I ain't gonna happen!
And if one believes this - I have Swamp Land and Bridges for sale!
cmrproducts Never said that Running N Scale was bad! I have run on a couple that work better than some HO layouts! Others were trying to state the Cost of selling N Scale and a person paid $55.00 for a used N Scale car and it wsas infered that selling your HO to purchase N or the other way around YOU would recoup your investment! I ain't gonna happen! And if one believes this - I have Swamp Land and Bridges for sale! BOB H - Clarion, PA
Was in N scale way back and when I restarted I did that in N too but I was soon lured away by the detail of HO higher end offerings. Thought about going On30 but glad I stayed in HO but it dose take more time than On30 would (why, things just take up more space, take a water tower 3-4" dia in HO and 6-8" in On30 or about 4 times the space).
Many (most?) active N scalers today modeled HO first, so they have had experience with both scales and chose N.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
cmrproductsBut the HO market - that isn't so!
Again depends..
With today's limited runs with quick sell outs some cars and locomotives commends a hefty price.
A BB car with metal wheels and KD couplers can fetch up to $7-10.00 at most shows.
A BB GP7 still seems to be a strong seller in certain road names-collectors perhaps?
Robin Rails and CM Shops cars can return a nice profit for certain road names.
Bev-Bel/Athearn cars can be all over the price charts from $3.00-75.00 depending on the rarity of the road name.
Here's why.
Bev-Bel ran many road names in small one time batches prime examples would be road names like the Spencerville & Elgin coveredhopper and the Berlin Mills Ry 50' AFC boxcar or the extremely hard to find Aberdeen & Rockfish 50' blue ACF boxcar.
All to sadly most modelers have no idea what the market value of their models is.
BTW. A Indiana & Ohio High Hood GP30 can fetch up to $250.00 and my Ohio Central GP7 around $200.00.
The reason I know this is I've been a horse trader for years and kept up with the market.I also collect Bev-Bev/Athearn IPD boxcars.
BRAKIE cmrproducts But the HO market - that isn't so! Again depends.. With today's limited runs with quick sell outs some cars and locomotives commends a hefty price. A BB car with metal wheels and KD couplers can fetch up to $7-10.00 at most shows. A BB GP7 still seems to be a strong seller in certain road names-collectors perhaps? Robin Rails and CM Shops cars can return a nice profit for certain road names. Bev-Bel/Athearn cars can be all over the price charts from $3.00-75.00 depending on the rarity of the road name. Here's why. Bev-Bel ran many road names in small one time batches prime examples would be road names like the Spencerville & Elgin coveredhopper and the Berlin Mills Ry 50' AFC boxcar or the extremely hard to find Aberdeen & Rockfish 50' blue ACF boxcar. All to sadly most modelers have no idea what the market value of their models is. BTW. A Indiana & Ohio High Hood GP30 can fetch up to $250.00 and my Ohio Central GP7 around $200.00. The reason I know this is I've been a horse trader for years and kept up with the market.I also collect Bev-Bev/Athearn IPD boxcars.
cmrproducts But the HO market - that isn't so!
As I stated previously - I only will pay $5.00 or they continue to sit around and gather dust!
I have seen the same cars at the same vendors for over 5 years - the price keeps going up but NO ONE buys!
YEP! they command High prices - BUT!
NO ONE IS BUYING!!
At least in our part of the world!
cmrproductsI have seen the same cars at the same vendors for over 5 years - the price keeps going up but NO ONE buys!
Common cars is worth your $5.00 or less..
I'm not talking common every day buy 'em by the bag full BB kits in common road names.
I think your misunderstanding what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about the extremely rare road names done by Bev-Bel in one time small batches that commands the dineros.A lot of the uncommon limited run car and locomotives can fetch a nice return.
Common models in five cents a dozen road names not so much unless one is looking for a certain road number then they might be willing to a tad higher price.
Oddities that requires some serious dineros are the Walthers I&0 GP30,N&W GP30,OC GP7,Atlas R.J.Corman GP38 and some of their special runs done for hobby shops such as the MMID GP38s.
A Athearn bay window caboose lettered for Southern can fetch $20-25.00 only because Southern cabooses are had to find.
Granted one won't become rich but,they won't be giving away a rare model at blue light special discount prices either just by not knowing what their models might be worth.
BRAKIE cmrproducts I have seen the same cars at the same vendors for over 5 years - the price keeps going up but NO ONE buys! Common cars is worth your $5.00 or less.. I'm not talking common every day buy 'em by the bag full BB kits in common road names. I think your misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the extremely rare road names done by Bev-Bel in one time small batches that commands the dineros.A lot of the uncommon limited run car and locomotives can fetch a nice return. Common models in five cents a dozen road names not so much unless one is looking for a certain road number then they might be willing to a tad higher price. Oddities that requires some serious dineros are the Walthers I&0 GP30,N&W GP30,OC GP7,Atlas R.J.Corman GP38 and some of their special runs done for hobby shops such as the MMID GP38s. A Athearn bay window caboose lettered for Southern can fetch $20-25.00 only because Southern cabooses are had to find. Granted one won't become rich but,they won't be giving away a rare model at blue light special discount prices either just by not knowing what their models might be worth.
cmrproducts I have seen the same cars at the same vendors for over 5 years - the price keeps going up but NO ONE buys!
You are right on the special cars!
They will complain about the prices YET - keep dishing out the bucks!
Then Monday on these forums they start a thread about MRR High Prices!
Nobody held them at gun point to buy the cars!
As for BevBel cars - LEF&C cars were quite rare and I always looked though the piles of the BevBel boxes hoping to find one - Usually $5.00 is the cost
If the Seller doesn't consider the car RARE then the price is what it should be - Only a purchaser jumping up and down - I found one I found one
Then the price goes up!
This is the problem as some HAVE to build that type of layout that only one other person in the wold knows about it and they end up bididng agains themselves for the car or engine!
I model the beginning of theConrail Era and NOTHING is rare nor a one off type of car or engine!
I just wait for Walthers to put it on clearence and pick it up for 75% off!
Those that have to do something exotic then you best be LOADED to play the game! ;-)
cmrproductsThose that have to do something exotic then you best be LOADED to play the game!
Bob,Best to know the prices,back off and watch the new collectors buy at all costs!
I highest I ever paid was $14.00--that was for that Berlin Mills boxcar..It took me about 14 years to find one.
I have three Roundhouse FMC Commet Rice coveredhoppers with different numbers-not exactly rare but,nice to have in the three car set-going price for the set around $30-35.00 with KDs on a good day $25 for the set on a bad day.
The majority of the Bev-Bel/Athearns are commons and worth very little yet,on e-Bay they sell for more then their true going prices.
BTW..There are collectors of AHM,Tyco,white box and early Spectrum Bachmann,Model Power,HO Lionel and Varney.
Started in N scale in 2012 don't see myself switching.
For the sake of defending N, it's not that expensive.
Don't go overboard on purchases, because this hobby costs as much as you want it.
N scale is not that hard to work on, the details are ok not HO scale level but they're good enough for most N scalers. For those whom are unhappy with N scale details there's a plethora of companies that make details that we can add to our models, like BLMA, Gold medal models, etc.
Kits are another story, building generally come in kits(but woodland scenics produces pre built buildings), train cars I'm not sure whom has made what but there are some kits out there craftsman caboose kits are popular(I'm working on an SP&S 24' kit right now).
Sure there are N scale collectors, but there are also collectors in HO, O, etc.
DCC is not that hard depending on locos and what their age is. Because I can only do simple drop in decoders I've found someone to do hardwire installs, he does quality work.
The key to N is standardization when it comes to couplers, it's easier to start out with a fleet 85-90% equipped with MTL's than it is to start with a 75-80% rapido coupler equipped fleet.
Keep your prototype simple or work on it one piece at a time, same for freelanced. Trust me when I started in N, I was all over the map, then I switched to modeling Burlington Northern, then I switched to modeling the SP&S with sprinklings of the other three hill lines.
Space, depends on how big your layout that you want will be. Most N scale layouts don't span basements or rooms, those that do often have decades of work in them. Island layouts are rather popular in N ranging from 2' x 4' boards, to Hollow core doors. Shelf switching layouts are popular as well, I want to build one eventually.
Locomotives vary by manufacturer but most N scalers look for running quality over looks, Train cars can come in many shapes and level of details(I look for roadname specific and trusted brands like MTL which makes up a good portion of my N scale fleet). 3D printing is also playing a big hand in N scale like these hoppers a fellow Omni rail club member was making during the Grays Harbor county fair
He printed 26 of them on Saturday, they're on the middle track.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
I wish I had a nickel for every one of Bob's exclamation points.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
steemtrayn I wish I had a nickel for every one of Bob's exclamation points.
Yah! but if I use ALL CAPs - YOU cry I am shouting at YOU! ;-)
At least I got your attention.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That ought to keep you busy for a while!