I'm entertaining a move from yuppieville to the country. We are considering building a house to our plans vs. buying a new or used home....usually not designed or built with the model railroader in mind. We may be stalled on this plan as my wife does not see the railroad as a prominent feature.(note: she is wonderful and quite supportive of my choochooholism). I can see her point, as she married me with the 2800 sq, foot railroad already in the basement. Basic problems are number one...my age, upgraded from relic to "collectible"....Then I want a large ranch house with a full basement, she... a two story colonial. Attics? garages? outbuildings? My original idea was a 40'x 80' semi ranch with the upper floor for the railroad with 12' ceiling and skylights (I'm planning on On3) and living quarters on lower level. After dodging a flying pot and a plant, I put that idea to rest. I've paid my dues and at age 76 and this is my retirement plan..to again build the railroad of my dreams.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I would think that my 50+ years in the hobby, I'd know this answer, but perhaps not???
HZ
Howard:
If money and zoning permit I would suggest an outbuilding of some sort. Otherwise a basement would be better than an attic, especially as new construction using roof truss doesn't leave much of a useable attic.
Dave
I can only second Dave´s suggestion.
If you have a building of your own, just for your "trains" and your workbench, a nice sofa to take a nap, a refrigerator, a small stove to cook a meal - heck, this will be your kingdom!
Assuming money is not an issue, I would recommend a wing addition on the side of the house as big as you need. You can walk in from the main house, no stairs. 2nd best would be a separate building, but going and coming in the winter, rain, heat, etc. is not always pleasant.
OTOH, the cheapest is probably a basement since you need a foundation of some sort anyway. Also wives are usually not too concerned with what goes on down there. Make sure the furnace, ac, h/w heater, electric panel, etc are located out of the way.
Since you're having a house built to your plans, include an elevator (or at least the shaft for one) if you have more than one floor. You may be okay on stairs now, but that could change. Again to save costs you could use a stair chair lift - make the stairs extra wide to accomodate this.
Good luck
Paul
I'm going against the flow of bigger is better more then likely but,I highly recommend a spare bedroom.You can build and detail a around the walls layout in a short period of time if you're going solo..A smaller layout is easier to maintain by one person.
The reason I think that I knew a guy that planed a Godzilla size basement filling layout and he died before before he even seen 40% of it finished--that was 10 years after he started!
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
LION has his layout in an old classroom. Really good idea, if you have a spare classroom, but it is too hot up there in the summertime. Basement or outbuilding are good second choices, if the outbuilding is not too far away. You need not only have to worry about the layout, but also the work benches AND the wood shop.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
HZ,
Having a rather large layout in my attic...no basements around here, high water table. My attic is finished, temp. controlled, high knee wall on one side, full dormer on the other. I will have to agree with Larry's (Brakie) reply. After 28 yrs of building, owning My own business, which takes a lot of time, only half of it could be considered close to being finished. The double mains are in and running, but no scenery. I'm trying to concentrate on finshing my East side which is all Industrial switching area's, within a city. That is very close to being finished. I will freely admit...I spend time switching it, after all you have to test it right? But reality sets in and at 72 my mind says yeah, but my body says no. Will I ever come close to finishing it? Probably not in my life time, but I try not to dwell on it. Just try to keep plugging.
Have Fun!
Take Care!
Frank
I o live in an area where basments are rarey constructed. My wife knew when she married me I wanted a place for my trains when we bought a house. We found a house with a large upstairs bonus room. Many houses in this area have them.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
I don't think the "where" is as important as the condition. No matter where it is, make sure the room is sealed - like drywalled walls and ceiling (or at least a drop ceiling). The room should also be climate controlled year round not only for your own comfort, but for the bench work's well being as well.
If you can attain that, I really don't think it makes much difference where it is located. However .... I personally wouldn't recommend an outbuilding. Aside from the fact you would need separate heating and cooling from the house, you also have to leave the house to go there. I tried that once, and in the middle of winter with a couple feet of snow on the ground, I quickly lost my enthusiasm when I had to bundle up and trudge through the snow to get there. Obviously, your location may pre-empt that hazard. Also the wife wasn't all that keen on me being "out of the house" that much. Even just at the other end of the house, I'm still close by.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
We, too, are contemplating a move. I'm 67. Right now, I've got the 24x24 foot room above the garage we added 15 years ago or so. It's also the "family room," but since our only child is now living in Maine it's become more of my man-cave.
I look at my layout and think of what I would, or will, do differently with the next one, and what I like about this one and its environment. It's a finished room, with heat and a room AC, which I find very pleasant amenities. It's still the same house, but separated from the other living spaces so the layout does not "intrude" on Martha Stuart.
One thing I don't like is the angled ceilings, because it is on the top floor. Also, I will not paint the walls to resemble either sky or a backdrop, because it is still part of the house. I can live with that, but I think my ideal location would be a basement that no one else wants, so I can have vertical walls all to myself, and maybe no annoying windows at track level.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Best plan is to have a space in the middle of the house for the train room and all the other rooms around, takes advantage of the things a train room needs and a house needs. Train room, no windows. Also point out that two storys is not good as you get older in case something, even tempary should disable you.
I moved about 14 years ago to a new home.
My old layout room was 8 x 11 - not much to work with on that one!
So when we decided to move - the plan was build a custom home (as I worked in a Modual Home Factory and could design it just how I needed it to be (as engineering was right next to my Office)!
The basement is were I located the Layout Room.
I had the Contractor add an extra row of blocks making the basement height at 8 ft plus - NO Mini Windows (as they would be covered with Drywall anyway - The drains were separate from the outshide French Drains (as they tried to tell me that needed to be tied in together - I basicall told them I was going to get another contractor then) as the basement had to be dry - and it is.
The Basement Stairs comes down in an another part of the basement which is separate from the Train Room.
Extra Drains for the Dehudmidifier.
All of the Utilities (Furnace - Water Heater)are up in the main part of the house (leaving the basement completely clear for the Layout.
A separate Breaker Box is located in the basement for the Layout lighting and outlets needs!
The Ceiling is insulated and covered with simplex plastic to eliminate ALL dust from filtering down from the living quarters!
The main Layout room was 25 x 75 - I then added another 16 x 16 area out the back - I also installed a Pooper Room in this new room but it is centered in the room allowing the Layout to go around the outside walls.
It is amazing what one can come up with when they preplan the layout before the Home is built!
I knew whatt size I had to work with - and was able to have the basic layout plan done 6 moths before we ever purchased the Land to put the new home on!
While all of the upstairs is on one floor - It will be livable even when I may not be able to walk up and down stairs!
The stairs leading to the basement was made wider than normal - just incase I need to install a chair lift!
The stairs now has a commercial metal hand rail to help those Operators that have a hard time using the stairs - I don't at this time YET!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Put me in the recommending an out building dedicated to the railroad camp.
That is my new plan. I purchased the 4 acres to the west of the "original" layout room to do this for myself. The only down side is the additional on going expense for heating/airconditioning of a separate building.
Hi Howard,
I'm not going to repeat the advice given, but to give you some ammunition for your point of view. Which is,that at your age, assuming you Wife is close to that as well, I would not be entertaining a two story home with all those stairs. Actually when my Wife and I built our home 33 years ago we purposely planned a bungalo (ranch) with a basement but only two steps up off the ground to the main floor front entrance, so that if we became disabled there wouldn't be a need for an elaborate ramp system, just a simple ramp of about 14 inches would get a wheel chair into our home.
We also have two large front closets one of which backs on to the main bathroom so that if going up and down stairs to the basement laundry became a problem, we could move the washer & dryer into that closet and the plumbing is right there in the wall. As well we put in extra wide hall ways to accomodate a wheel chair if needed.
There is no provision for the railroad that is in the basement other than if it were necessary we could put in a stair lift and it would work fine. I guess that was the Boy Scout in me, (BE PREPARED) also my Wife has worked in Geriatrics most of her life. We want to stay in our home as long as we can. Nursing Homes aren't good places to try and set up a railroad.
We thought these things out when we were much younger, but if I was to do it again at my age these things would definately be first on the list.
Just the ramblings of an ol' phart ....for what it's worth.
Johnboy out..........................looking at 74
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
All interesting ideas and suggestions. While in Army service in 1963, I met a career officer who had purchased a stripped down construction/field office trailer for well under a thousand bucks. I believe it was 10' x 60'. He had built a really nice railroad that took up an entire side of the trailer with wide loops at either end. Although small in scope, it was indeed portable and the Army would store it (motor pool) during overseas assignments, or tow it anywhere in the US when transferred. I'm entertaining purchasing possilby three such trailers and connect them...then connect them to house with a covered veranda. Heating and airconditioning does not seem to difficult..............or purchase two modular house halves and join them in rear of property. I have seen this and size is really not a limit only property and local zoning. Only problem would be ceiling height as I want to render very high mountains (my first love in scenery!)
I'm sure that my wonderful wife and I will come up with some kind of compromise, but if move is going to happen, I want to begin planning this thing ASAP.
I had solicited advice a few years back as to changing scales from HO to On3. Now that Sandy, my wife is retiring next year, it is again a viable subject. As to being 76, hell's bells!!! that ain't never stopped me. It is this crap that keeps one young both in spirit and body. I just finished building a huge O gauge pike in Colorado and now I'm finishing up another rather large O gauge layout here in western Howard County, MD..... (Yup O gauge, not O scale!) I'll be posting pics soon as it is interesting to see what can be done with three rail track. I find building a railroad great excersise...both mental and physical. I retired in 1987, and went directly into choo choos. Actually I feel and look younger now than I did in '87. I attribute most to this hobby.
Again please keep ideas flowing.....many thanks.
Howard, you mentioned that your wife favors a two story colonial. You might ask her if she wants the elevator installed now, or would she rather wait until one or both of you REALLY need it.
One selling point for my humble abode is that it's all on one level. My wife has two titanium knees and I've developed some serious mobility problems, so staircases (and elevators) wouldn't be a welcome adjunct to daily life.
You might take a leaf from New England rural construction. The main house was connected to the barn by a string of structures built to house vehicles, firewood and other things the owner didn't want out in the weather. That way, the critters could be tended in relative comfort even during a howling blizzard. Substitute a garage and workshop for the woodshed and carriage house and provide a barn of appropriate size for the railroad you want.
I wish I could do that. Unfortunately, the setback is so close I can't even put a decent radius turnback loop in my side yard - for HOj, not G gauge. As for the back yard - WHAT back yard?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a subdivision in Southern Nevada)
The only theoretical question I would ask is "do you want to spend most of the rest of your life building a huge layout, or would you rather be running trains as soon as possible?". I'm not trying to rain on your parade in any way, but if I were in your enviable position I would ask if I have the time needed to build my dream layout and enjoy the finished product.
I have no idea of your physical health or any of the many factors which could influence your plans. All I am suggesting is that you have a reasonable time line so that you can achieve your dreams.
With that in mind, you might want to consider building your layout in stages. Do something medium sized to start and then add on as much as you want to and you are able to do.
I sound like a pessimist here but I am really not. I admire your goals!
Best of luck!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Hi all
Well concidering that there is no such thing as a finished model railroad that is the true nature of our hobby so it is never going to happen for any one,
No matter how small or large the layout is.
However you need a clean dry pleasent and comfortable area to build a model railroad which is well lit and has plenty of power points if the climate warrants it air conditioning but at the very least insulated.
I personaly would go with a sealed concrete floor if you can that way you don't feel guilty about any accidental spills.
Some of those foam mats that go together a bit like a jigsaw puzzle are very handy at the control points.
I personaly think geting trains moving as quick as possable is a must but by the same token that does not necassarily mean all track is layed and wired.
Model railroads are a long term project and also a journey of discovery its going to take more than 5 minutes to build so I say enoy the journey
regards John
If you're moving into the country, and want a large rather than spare room size layout, I'm also going to go with the separate building, even if built New England style attached to the house, though in many places making is separate means it doesn't have to meet the same code as the living space.
The reason I suggest a separate building is I'm betting your wife doesn't want to clean a house that would be large enough to contain the railroad you desire. Separate building means less house to clean and maintain. Be sure to plan in plenty of power and a garage door or two, even if you install them as temporary walls for now. That way, in the event of a future sale, the building can be listed as a garage/shop (plenty of folks look for places to store their outdoor toys and there are probably a lot more woodworkers who'd love a retirement shop than there are model railroaders who'd love a dream layout.
jim
Oops! Duplicate post.
Howard Zane"best location for a model railroad".
According to my wife, it's not in our house.
Still, I designed the house to accomodate a layout in the basement. Electrical service and water heater is on the ground floor, and the laundry room was supposed to be there, too. It was requested that it be moved to the basement, so a window was included for that room. There's no furnace as heat is electric baseboards. I added a small workshop for modelling, then began a layout in the rest of the basement. The walls were drywalled and a drop ceiling installed. Not too much later, the kids needed a rec room, and the layout shrunk by about 1/3. That was followed by someone desiring air conditioning - I managed to place the air handler in a corner of the rec room. After more than 20 years, I've finally begun adding the partial second level that was designed as a result of losing that one third of the original room. It's difficult to say if it will ever be operational, but I intend to work towards that goal.What I have would be quite sufficient if not for the all the "noise" from upstairs.
If I had the money, I would opt for a separate building with small modelling workshop, and perhaps a 2-piece bathroom. No windows, well-insulated, well-lit and a not-too-big layout.
Wayne
I'm building my HO layout in a 12' x 24' out building. I have it insulated, heated and cooled, 80 amp service and exterior outlets for a generator hook up. I like it because I don't have to listen to crap when the inlaws show up, just lock the door.
I'm also not of the opinion that bigger is better.
Almost any layout can benefit from a center-of-the-room entrance, like what you could have in a basement.
Consider a finsihed space over the garage. Considering the trusses, a two and a half car wide garage would give you a space of about 20 x 16, if you put the half car space in the middle of the garage instead of the usual side. You could locate a staircase there and you can enter the layout from the center. A garage that's longer than 20 feet would be even better.
The separate foundation, electrical run, and HVAC system an outbuilding would require would be too expensive for a layout, IMO. But hey, its your money not mine!
- Douglas
My advice is build the house the wife wants. Make sure to include a first floor laundry room, pantry and any other amenities she wants. You can then take over the entire basement. After room preparations make sure you have room for storing models and supplies plus a good workshop area.
Good luck, keep us updated.
Doughless I'm also not of the opinion that bigger is better. Almost any layout can benefit from a center-of-the-room entrance, like what you could have in a basement. Consider a finsihed space over the garage. Considering the trusses, a two and a half car wide garage would give you a space of about 20 x 16, if you put the half car space in the middle of the garage instead of the usual side. You could locate a staircase there and you can enter the layout from the center. A garage that's longer than 20 feet would be even better. The separate foundation, electrical run, and HVAC system an outbuilding would require would be too expensive for a layout, IMO. But hey, its your money not mine!
I look at it this way - Have a very large area to put the trains in - YOU can always only use a small portion of the room if YOU Want!
BUT - Not many Modlers I have EVER came in contact with ever stated "GEE - I Wish I had a SMALLER LAYOUT!"
If YOU want a smaller layout - tear down the part YOU don't Want!
How much simpler can that be?
As you get older - RANCH HOME. I'm not quite that odl yet, but I do have severe arthritis in my knees and goign up and down stairs is somewhat painful. So the house I just bought is a ranch. No stairs. ANd full basement. Two advantages - no stairs int eh living area, and you get the maximum sq ft in the basement relative to the house sq ft. Just ne set of stairs, to teh basement, which means not a lot of trips up and down, and should even that eventually be too much, it's only 1 staircase to install a chairlift on.
The only thing that could be better would be a large flat property with room to build a nice size pole building on to be the layout building. Heck if it has to be a bit too far from the house to comfortably walk, that's what golf cars are for! Complicated by the need to get power, heat, and, depending on climate, AC to the outbuilding. Water would be nice so you can have a bathroom and a sink to wash up in. Not sure if zonign in my neighborhood would allow it, but if I get to the point where I can;t take care of my pool and/or use it on a regualr basis, I could always fill it in and use that space to build an outbuilding. Already have power since there is a subpanel for the pool. Right now, I like having the pool too much to even consider this idea, plus the basement, while not as huge as I really wanted, is plenty big to keep me occupied for some years.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
cmrproductsBUT - Not many Modelers I have EVER came in contact with ever stated "GEE - I Wish I had a SMALLER LAYOUT!"
Bob,I think the best part of planing is thinking large if you're young and full of vinegar but,as you age one should rethink that "bigger is better" mentality that have been shoved down our throats for years.
At 66 I'm not foolish enough to think I could start and build a Godzilla size layout in a basement or railroad shed since the energy nor desire is not like it was when I was 60.Also once you enter the 60s your life expectancy starts its slippery down hill slide to the bone yard.
I will also mention after having a near fatal heart attack at the age of 57, I see the delicacy of life more clearly and understands how fast it can end.
My 1' x10' ISL still about 50% finished after a year and these things can be up and running over a weekend and completely finished the following weekend.
BRAKIE cmrproducts BUT - Not many Modelers I have EVER came in contact with ever stated "GEE - I Wish I had a SMALLER LAYOUT!" Bob,I think the best part of planing is thinking large if you're young and full of vinegar but,as you age one should rethink that "bigger is better" mentality that have been shoved down our throats for years. At 66 I'm not foolish enough to think I could start and build a Godzilla size layout in a basement or railroad shed since the energy nor desire is not like it was when I was 60.Also once you enter the 60s your life expectancy starts its slippery down hill slide to the bone yard. I will also mention after having a near fatal heart attack at the age of 57, I see the delicacy of life more clearly and understands how fast it can end. My 1' x10' ISL still about 50% finished after a year and these things can be up and running over a weekend and completely finished the following weekend. Larry, It is every facet of this hobby including the grunt work that keeps me young and healthy. Sure I'm most likely lucky with health issues and I say thanks to who or whatever for that. Over the years I've seen many retirees just waste away due to lack of activity and mental stimulation. Model railroading???? What more could one want. I just finished building a rather large layout as previously mentioned and more to come. One mistake I made was selling the Great Scale Model Train Show here in Maryland, so I'm getting back into it by resurrcting the Brass Expo show for 2015. I was not aware of the void it left, even though I'm still building railroads along with other related stuff. Thanks for thoughts... HZ
cmrproducts BUT - Not many Modelers I have EVER came in contact with ever stated "GEE - I Wish I had a SMALLER LAYOUT!"
Larry,
It is every facet of this hobby including the grunt work that keeps me young and healthy. Sure I'm most likely lucky with health issues and I say thanks to who or whatever for that. Over the years I've seen many retirees just waste away due to lack of activity and mental stimulation. Model railroading???? What more could one want. I just finished building a rather large layout as previously mentioned and more to come. One mistake I made was selling the Great Scale Model Train Show here in Maryland, so I'm getting back into it by resurrcting the Brass Expo show for 2015. I was not aware of the void it left, even though I'm still building railroads along with other related stuff.
Thanks for thoughts...
Howard ZaneOver the years I've seen many retirees just waste away due to lack of activity and mental stimulation.
Absolutely..I see those folks every day sitting on the benches at the town square wasting away their last years.
Make no mistake I keep active by railfaning,membership in the local model railroad club,piddle padding on the layout plus I attend the weekly gathering of railfans at T&OC station.I keep my relaxes and mental stimulation up by playing video games.
Anyway,I'm still not fool hardy enough to start a Godzilla size layout in the basement or shed because like I stated the energy and desire is not there and hasn't been since I had my heart attack.To be more precise I was at standing at death's door and made a return trip much to the surprise of my family,doctor and the hospital nurses.Needless to say I see life in a different prospective.
At any rate good luck with building your new layout and your new Brass Expo show in 2015.
cmrproducts Doughless I'm also not of the opinion that bigger is better. Almost any layout can benefit from a center-of-the-room entrance, like what you could have in a basement. Consider a finsihed space over the garage. Considering the trusses, a two and a half car wide garage would give you a space of about 20 x 16, if you put the half car space in the middle of the garage instead of the usual side. You could locate a staircase there and you can enter the layout from the center. A garage that's longer than 20 feet would be even better. The separate foundation, electrical run, and HVAC system an outbuilding would require would be too expensive for a layout, IMO. But hey, its your money not mine! I look at it this way - Have a very large area to put the trains in - YOU can always only use a small portion of the room if YOU Want! BUT - Not many Modlers I have EVER came in contact with ever stated "GEE - I Wish I had a SMALLER LAYOUT!" If YOU want a smaller layout - tear down the part YOU don't Want! How much simpler can that be? BOB H - Clarion, PA
Bob, I generally agree. But the OP is building a house from scratch. I think realistically you have to have a particular layout and size in mind and try to build the house to accommodate it, within reason.
Layouts can be planned to fit into numerous shapes of spaces. Yes, the space just has to be big enough.
Personally, I like to have a continous run option no matter how big the layout is, but I don't like turn back loops except at peninsulas where there is a center backdrop. To avoid the dreaded lift out, a center entrance layout would be my preference. So I would be more concerned about where the stairs are placed more so than how humongous the layout is.