I know that DCC READY means a loco is ready for me to drop in a separately-purchased decoder and start running that lico under DCC instead of DC. What I dont know is:
1) whether all decoders support sound; if not, where does it say?
2) whether a DCC READY loco comes with a place in it for a speaker to fit -- as opposed to my having to drill or cut out a place in the bottom of a tender, for example.
Can an someone shed light on this? I wish the ads said DCC & SOUND READY if an engine is ready for both.
DCC Ready means just that: you can plug in a DCC decoder without any fancy electrical work. A DCC decoder is just DCC. For sound, you need a sound decoder. There are some sound only decoders out there, but most sound decoders also have the motor control logic built in.
The speaker is another matter entirely. Many so-called DCC ready locomotives need extensive modification to put a speaker in them.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Not all decoders are sound decoders. If it is a sound decoder, the manufacturer will indicate that it is a sound decoder. Otherwise, it is nothing more than a mobile decoder, although most decoders, sound or non-sound sound, will support light functions.
A DCC Ready loco means that the motor brushes are isolated from the frame so that it will not short a decoder installation. That does not mean, however, that there is room set aside under the shell for a speaker enclosure. That all depends on how much room is available based upon the design of the chassis.
Rich
Alton Junction
Many thanks! Got it. Looks like I'm going to have to continue to carefully ask if a loco has speaker space built in if it says DCC READY. Thanks again.
Scale Hogger Many thanks! Got it. Looks like I'm going to have to continue to carefully ask if a loco has speaker space built in if it says DCC READY. Thanks again.
Yeah, consult with your dealer. For instance, Athearn RTR locos started coming sound ready in some recent runs, probably anticipated their recent announcement to begin offering sound in the RTR line.
It sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with DCC or sound. It might be better to purchase a loco with sound installed as a first purchase. That way you'll have a nice neat install to follow. I've done about a dozen now, plus several dozen more DCC-only installs and I'm still trying to be that neat.
Consider doing a DCC-only install first, too. Once you're a little less in the dark about things in general, you'll find the step up to sound installs not so daunting.
Beyond that, with today's tiny high-perfromance speakers, It's possible install sound in just about anything. Some locos obviously have more room than others. That will give you a much wider selection of candidates to choose from.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Scale Hogger:
As maxman suggests, you might want to ask about the DCC/sound readyness of specific locomotives right here on the forum. Somebody has likely already installed sound in your chosen locomotive(s) and can offer hints as to how they did it.
Finding speaker space can be as simple as removing a weight, or it can be a bit of a challenge where chassis material has to be removed.
If you state your scale, era and preferred rail companies people here might be able to suggest appropriate locomotives where sound is esay to install.
I will predict that once you have done a couple of simpler installations you will soon graduate to more complex projects.
Another suggestion: You have started two identical threads. Ask the moderators to delete the second one and move any responses from there to this thread so all your responses show up in one place.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
maxman The one exception to this is if you find a loco that is sold both with and without sound, and uses the same internal mechanical configuration. An example of this would be some of the Atlas locos in the Silver and Gold variations. The Gold locos come with the sound installation; the Silver locos come with the same a-frame speaker mounting but with a weight installed where the speaker would go.
The Atlas Silver Line HH600/660 models are very difficult to get a speaker and decoder in. Even with removing the light board, there is not much room left under the hood, If the wiring is not routed perfectly you will not get the shell back on easily. With small diesel switchers you have to get creative with the wiring/speaker/decoder placement. Search this forum for articles on sugar cube or Iphone 5 speakers. You can also look at my post history for a thread on putting DCC and sound into a Walthers Mainline SW-1. I decided to go with DCC no sound on this loco, mostly because it was easier, and cheaper to go with a drop in 8-pin decoder.
Word of warning, even though it says dcc ready, there may be more to it than just putting in a decoder. You may have to change lights out for LEDs as the incandescent light bulbs will over heat and melt the shell of some locomotives. You also want to verify that the motor is indeed isolated from the track when you go to hook up the decoder. If it isn't you will short circuit the decoder and fry it.
Keep in mind there is no like NMRA standard for these terms. "DCC Ready" can mean: the engine has an 8- or 9-pin receptacle for a "plug and play" decoder; the engine has a green light board that can be replaced by a "drop-in" light board replacement decoder; the engine has the motor isolated from the frame; or just that there's enough room in the engine for a decoder.
In general, most engines designed or manufactured after about 1995 or so have isolated motors, and most have some type of light board. Most engines made after about 2000 have some type of receptacle to plug in a decoder. But there are a lot of engines designed pre-DCC that don't have a receptacle, a few that don't have lightboards, and the old Athearn "blue box" style engines still have to have the motor isolated from the frame (which isn't hard - you remove the screws holding on the motor, put down tape or a thin sheet of styrene, and reattach the motor to the frame using plastic screws.)
If the OP was asking about built-in speaker enclosures, there are some engines (like the Kato HO AC4400, SD-38 and F40) that do have speaker enclosures built in. In some cases as noted, there are some where a sound equipped version of the engine would have a speaker, and a non-sound one would have a weight that could be removed. I suspect as time goes on more and more engines will come with a speaker enclosure of some type.
In HO, you generally can fit a 1/2" by 1" speaker and enclosure in most GP/SD etc. type engines with a little work and ingenuity.
p.s. if an engine has a light board, using a light board replacement sound decoder means the decoder takes up no additional room than the light board did, so you just need to find a spot for the speaker.
Also, there is a DCC forum here.
Google Digitrax, NCE, SoundTraxx, LokSound for a start. They show specs on sound and non sound decoders. Read ALL the ads and don't make assumptions.
They also show CV list and manuals.
Diesel, steam locos, electrics all have different specs, sizes.
Different loco manufactures have different versions of locos, as DCC ready and DCC on board which means non sound. They will say sound if it comes with sound decoder and speaker.
I have not seen any DCC non sound or DCC ready with speaker.
Bachmann says, sound value which is a SoundTraxx decoder with Tsunami technology but not equivalent to a Tsunami you install yourself.
A couple other companies sell sound decoder locos with stripped down decoders.
Sounds like you have to do a lot of searching before buying anything.
Again, don't assume.
Below is only one link about DCC and sound. Look though ALL his site and take your time. He favors SoundTraxx.
http://www.mrdccu.com/
Tony's Trains is another good source.
http://www.tonystrains.com/
Most DCC trains can run on DC power packs which is another complete issue.
Be carefull buying from private sources. Some diasble the DC option.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998I have not seen any DCC non sound or DCC ready with speaker.
Did not BLI have a line of locos that were DC with sound, but you had to add your own DCC motor decoder?
Athearn tells you on their website if the locomotives are DCC ready and sound ready. At the bottom of most of the pages, there is a gray table. In it it says DCC and tells you (no, ready, or yes) under that it says sound and (no, ready, or yes). The table also list the minimum radius and recommended radius.
The older locomotives aren't DCC ready. The newer Gensis line is either DCC and sound ready, or equipped The newer RTR line is DCC ready. However, they just released the new RTR SD40s which will be either DCC and sound ready or equipped.
maxman richg1998 I have not seen any DCC non sound or DCC ready with speaker. Did not BLI have a line of locos that were DC with sound, but you had to add your own DCC motor decoder?
richg1998 I have not seen any DCC non sound or DCC ready with speaker.
Yes you are correct. That was te BLI Blueline range. I had a lot of problems with them until I switched to NCE DCC system.
Magnus
Take a look at the prices. You will find that a sound-equipped DCC engine costs about $90-$100 more than the same engine without DCC or sound. Then, take a look at the prices of a quality DCC sound decoder like a Tsunami, plus the cost of a speaker and enclosure. That's going to come to more than $100, and all you'll have is a DC engine and a bunch of parts. Installation is either more work or more cost.
If the same engine is available with or without sound, do yourself a favor and get it with sound.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasleyIf the same engine is available with or without sound, do yourself a favor and get it with sound.
Unless you have a preference for another brand decoder.
maxman MisterBeasley If the same engine is available with or without sound, do yourself a favor and get it with sound. Unless you have a preference for another brand decoder.
MisterBeasley If the same engine is available with or without sound, do yourself a favor and get it with sound.
I would also add that most OEM installs don't use premium speakers nor have the best enclosure set up. Also, I like a 2 speaker install(not always possible) and almost all OEM installs are single speaker. An example would be the Genesis MP15 switcher a few years ago--I had one from Atlas as well. Neither was done well. The sound isn't even comparable to what it was, it's like the difference between a toy and a model.
Richard
Thanks, Guys -- all of you. This has been really helpful. Obviously, the industry is evolving. Hopefully, standard will emerge that will make things clearer, especially to newcomers, like a guy I am advising. I had good guesses about the answer to my question, but wasn't sure. So I posted to this forum and got the help I needed from you all who have more experience than I do. Thanks again to all of you for chiming in. JHF
Yes they do. The only one I know of. Simply add a decoder for the motor. BLI explains why they do that, very clearly. Read all the details in ads and make notes to compare. That is how research is done.
Scale Hogger Thanks, Guys -- all of you. This has been really helpful. Obviously, the industry is evolving. Hopefully, standard will emerge that will make things clearer, especially to newcomers, like a guy I am advising. I had good guesses about the answer to my question, but wasn't sure. So I posted to this forum and got the help I needed from you all who have more experience than I do. Thanks again to all of you for chiming in. JHF
There are NMRA standards but forget what you are thinking off. Different manufactures have different ways of approaching digital control of model trains. DCC is only one version. There are other companies selling digitally controlled model trains. Wireless and battery operated from all the ads I have seen so far. Nothing through the rails. That is a big weakness in digital control of model trains. HO scale and up.