After reading Jim Kelly's first or second article, but not the July 2014 issue. When he talks about body mounted couplers on freight cars after the helper diesels derails them up the hill.
I was scared about this because I planned to use a 3 unit diesel pulling and pushing bethgon coalporters (all kato) that I saw on Union Pacific and BNSF.
Now after a year or so I got the courage test it out to see if the cars derail or not. Luckily I didn't see derailed cars, but saw my helper diesel pushing cars while the main power was barely pulling.
Now the question is "Is this going a problem (worry) that I have to buy extra couplers and truck frames to continue this operation?"
Has anybody done this without replacing anything?
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
If the engines are not moving at the same speed, either running under DC or DCC, the helper engines could be shoving harder tahn the lead engines are pulling. There a number of solutions to this problem.
1. If running under DC run your engines together and see which run together at the same speed. Use these engines lead and helper engines
2, If runnind under DCC. Speed match your engines and you will not this problem. you can do this using a program like Decoder Pro, .
Ira.
Does it matter about speed. Should it be worried on the damaging freight cars if it happens? Or is this the step I take to make it as real as possible. With real prototype consists and power.
When I tested it yesterday I only 9 cars, but the consist well be 20 cars long with 3 diesels.
The orginal reply was suggesting that you take your locomotives and set them about two or three feet apart on the layout and run them to see if they stay that distance apart, or if one is distintly faster of slower than the others. Three that move at essentially the same speed wile work together the best.
Dave
Put the faster locomotive in the lead to keep the consist stretched out. When BNSF uses distributed power the front 2/3 of the train is stretched the rear 1/3 is buffed.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I'm assuming that your operations are, like mine, DC-powered. To eliminate the problems caused by locomotives which run at different speeds, the train should be heavy enough to actually need helpers.Because much of my layout consists of curves, mostly on grades, helpers are required on most trains. The locomotives are usually double-headed (I run steam), but I've also used pushers and "distributed power". In all cases, the train required the additional power in order to be moved. For normal operations, most trains are 12 cars or less, but with small locos, still often require doubleheading. Even with larger trains and locos (Mikes and Mohawks are my biggest) a heavy train will use multiple locos.I won't bore long-time Members by inserting an oft-seen video, but here's a link: http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcs.trains.com%2Fmrr%2Ff%2F88%2Ft%2F221528.aspx&ei=eFKsU6qVCoaQ8QGWn4HYDQ&usg=AFQjCNFXy2vPqu0kw6Dkv_pqWIyENGl3aA&sig2=aPUkGdCEtUdia2H-rtMkhA&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2U&cad=rja (You'll need to scroll down a bit to my post, then simply click on the photo.) The occasional somewhat jerky motion is due to the cheapy point-and-shoot camera - in-person it's smooth as can be.
Wayne
When I use a pusher, it's because the lead loco can't take the train up the 2.5% grade without slipping.
When I assign a pusher, it can't push the entire train up the grade by itself.
Somewhere in the train moving up the grade there is a car that is being pulled from ahead AND pushed from behind. All couplers from there to the head end are stretched, all couplers from there back are pushed together. Due to variations in curvature, that won't always be the same car.
Derailments happen when the helper tries to push the lead loco's tender or the lead loco tries to pull the helper with the train on a curve. Now, re-read my first two statements.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - short trains, small locos, helpers if necessary)
angelob6660Now after a year or so I got the courage test it out to see if the cars derail or not. Luckily I didn't see derailed cars, but saw my helper diesel pushing cars while the main power was barely pulling. Now the question is "Is this going a problem (worry) that I have to buy extra couplers and truck frames to continue this operation?" Has anybody done this without replacing anything?
Well,I won't even think of such a operation using DC since its to risky due to unmatched locomotive speeds..
For such operation I would use DCC and speed match the needed locomotives-a very basic starter DCC system could be used.
To my mind that would be the best route to take for such operation.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Are we missing something in these responses? If the OP is referencing the Jim Kelly article, Jim was talking about the problem he was having using pushers with N scale equipment with truck mounted couplers.
So if this really is truck mounted coupler question, either N scale or HO, then I think any pushing will tend to skew those trucks and lead to unreliable operation.
Well, not having seen the article, that does shed some new light on the subject. However, this remark:
angelob6660...but saw my helper diesel pushing cars while the main power was barely pulling....
...leads me to believe that this is a DC-powered layout. It's very possible to run multiple locos of dissimilar speeds or capabilities on DC, but the additional locomotives must be actually needed in order to move the train. If they're just there "for show", use dummies.I'd guess that DCC locos could be programmed to work as pushers even with truck-mounted couplers, but it would be much simpler, DC or DCC, to use all locos on the head end. And in DC, that will not cure the problem of various-speed locos unless the train is heavy enough to require the extra locos.
maxmanAre we missing something in these responses? If the OP is referencing the Jim Kelly article, Jim was talking about the problem he was having using pushers with N scale equipment with truck mounted couplers
Sounds interesting since most advance N Scalers body mount MT couplers.
You can push a fairly long cut of cars with truck mounted MT couplers at normal switching speed-not mach 1 switching speed..
Adding a DC powered DPU locomotives to a long train would more then likely cause issues unlike DPU locomotives speed matched by DCC.