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What's up with On30?

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Posted by narrow gauge nuclear on Monday, January 5, 2015 1:39 AM

The reason I went with HOn3 is that all my HO stuff (people, era related cars and structures would not be lost.  As just posted On30 and On3 are just O "scale"  You will have to purchase O scale figures, cars, buildings and accessories.  These goodies cost a good deal more.  There are no On30 figures or cars.  It's all just O scale and scale has nothing to do with gauge. 

For me there was just no real selection of On30 locos.  It was Bachmann or virtually nothing else unless, of course, you scratch build your way through the issues.  You seem to be lucky in that Bachmann has your desired loco in On30.

All the best.

 

Richard

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Posted by stebbycentral on Sunday, January 4, 2015 6:47 PM

Just did a quick run through the responses, so I apologize if I am repeating something said earlier.  But two things to look out for with On30.

1) If you do start looking at brass locomotives be careful.  As stated earlier there is a critical difference between On30 and American three-foot narrow gauge.  Six scale inches in fact.  Most of the high-end brass narrow gauge locomotives run on the "correct" 3 foot track, true to their Colorado prototypes.  So they will not work on your track.  Same thing for narrow-gauge car kits from manufacturers like the San Juan Car Co.  Although should you see something you really want, in that case it's usually only a matter of switching out the trucks.  

2)  Remember that even though the track is narrow and the trains are smaller, the rest of the railroad is "O" scale.  That's true for all structures, roads, and scenery.  Plan your right of way clearances accordingly or you could find your trains in some tight spots.  I found this out the hard way some years back.  I had to realign some track when an engine-house kit I ordered would up hanging off of the edge of the layout!

 

I have figured out what is wrong with my brain!  On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!

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Posted by vsmith on Sunday, January 4, 2015 4:59 PM
Atlas code 100 works great in On30, but specific track is readily available. It comes down to how anal a modeler you are. Personally coming from years of background in HOn30 I find the grousing over On30 track being a small fraction of an inch off from true scale 3' gauge rather laughable but thats just me. On30 has allowed more people to wet their feet in the narrow gauge creek than anything in the history of model railroading and thats a good thing. Personally I think alot of the gnashing of teeth comes from the fact that narrow gauge was always the secret realm of a very small faction of craftsman modellers. On30 allowed the unwashed masses to bath in their private stream and there is still a little soreness about that. Just my opinion ...

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Catt on Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:28 PM

My On30 layout uses ATLAS code 100 flex track with every other tie removed.The layout is 8' x 13' snuggled into the end of a room.Being that it is a modern day tourist railroad for the most part it will be neatly ballasted.Most of the locos will be Bachmann or Bachmann powered.The cars are stock Bachmann or kit bashed HO cars.

Johnathan(Catt) Edwards 100 % Michigan Made
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Posted by Mike in Kingsville on Sunday, January 4, 2015 10:58 AM
Have been modeling in On30 now for 2 years and am getting ready to do a shelf layout. Have modeled HO for 30 years. 1/48 is easier as i have gotten older too. Regular HO track is just fine. Most of the time, narrow gauge track is buried in dirt of rock, so if you plan to ballast heavily, code 83 HO is just fine. The reason I like On30 is that the rivet counters aren't there and I have freedom to work outside of the box. You may want to look at carendt.com to realize that a 10x10 space is just fine too. Micro layouts are becoming very popular.

Mike Habersack http://rail. habersack. com

Maryland - the land of pleasant living...

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Posted by Fouled Anchor on Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:20 PM

Thanks for the info Ulrich. Nice layout all centered around a humungous "Y". I'm going to do a "U" with 16' legs, and 12' base.

 

I have a question for you and Jetrock. I am planning on the Bacjmann two truck Shay and the Climax. I am planning to install the Tsunami TSU-1000 steam sound. My question is this: Everything I've read so far say the Tsunami's run hot. I also have read that the Shay and Climax are cast metal? If so, have either of you heard of heat sinking the decoder to the engine shell? Was thinking a copper shaped strap between the two. This would be a huge heat sink. Just wondering.

 

Later

Steve

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Posted by Jetrock on Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:55 PM

Fouled Anchor

Thanks Jetrock, ya gotta admit, it can be quite confusing. 30 years ago, it was simple.

30 years ago you had to scratchbuild or kitbash On30 and HOn30 from HO and N scale mechanisms except for a few things like Ken Kidder brass models of Hawaiian sugar cane plantation locomotives, or Roco's HOn30 sets, both of which I think date from the 1960s. I got interested in narrow gauge reading MR in the 1970s/80s, especially the Carrabasset & Dead River Railway, an HOn30 model of a Maine 2-footer, which was pretty much all scratchbuilt/kitbashed due to the lack of commercial kits. Ended up modeling standard gauge traction instead, but still have a soft spot for narrow rails. Today, you can order Bachmann On30 off the shelf.

Plastic gears work just fine, I have less headaches with Bachmann locos with plastic gears (that you can order replacement parts for online) than finicky brass mechanisms made by companies that went out of business years ago--good luck finding replacement parts without scrounging eBay for another brass loco of the same model, whose parts might not even be interchangeable! It's like a miniature version of restoring railroad museum locomotives, everything has to be fabricated or scrounged from the scrap line. But, unlike On30 narrow gauge, very few companies are making electric interurban freight motors and Niles passenger cars these days. So brass or bashing it is...much like life for the narrow gaugers.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 22, 2014 11:31 AM

Steve,

the layout is basically a shelf layout, a little over 10´6" long and 19" wide. There is a leg sticking out, making it into a T-shaped layout. That leg will have to be removed, when the layout is not in operation. On the right side is an extension which will be the staging. This is also removable, as it in front of the windows of this room. I don´t have a separate train room, so my layout shares the space with my office, guest room and laundry room.

Here is the latest edition of my track plan:

I am using an old version of WinRail for my track planning exercises. As it is about 10 years old now, its library does not contain all the recent additions. It does include Peco´s On30 track, though, that´s why I went for them.

Right now I am struggling with constructing the benchwork, for which I need the help of a friend, who is not available at the moment. So that will have to wait for some more time. Once I have started on building the layout, I will open a thread in the layouts section on the construction.

If you are looking for some inspiration, take a look here . I´s 100 pages, loaded with info on h2do things!

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Posted by Fouled Anchor on Saturday, March 22, 2014 6:57 AM

Ulrich... good news for me! I'm just starting, and I hope you do not mind comparing notes once in a while.

 

Are you planning to use layout software? I have been learning AnyRail, and really like the easment tools... quick and easy. How big will your layout be?

 

Have a good day.

Steve

Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:44 AM

Welcome to the club - I am just in the process of starting my own On30 layout. Last Thursday, I received my order of Peco On30 track. Btw, I am going to use regular code 100 HO track for my staging.

A quick comparison:

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Posted by Fouled Anchor on Friday, March 21, 2014 11:50 PM

Ulrich, I was so confused that I just brought the old dart board... On30 it is.

 

Steve

Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 21, 2014 12:32 PM

Steven - to make it even more confusing: On30 runs on HO gauge track, but tie size and spacing are different then on your normal HO track. ZTo be blunt, On30 stock looks quite silly on HO track. Custom Trax does not make On30 track - your source would be either Peco or MicroEngineering.

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Posted by Fouled Anchor on Friday, March 21, 2014 11:11 AM

Thanks Jetrock. Bachmann has a nice two truck Shay, and Climax in On30 which I hear good things about except for platic gears, and I found some nice flex track by Custom Trax, so I am settling on the On30.

 

Thanks Jetrock, ya gotta admit, it can be quite confusing. 30 years ago, it was simple.

 

Steve

Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.

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Posted by Jetrock on Friday, March 21, 2014 1:23 AM

Fouled Anchor

G Paine, thanks. Do a lot of folks run both guages like that? Is there a difference btween On3 and On30? I think now I will stick to strictly On30 for both mining/timber operations, and also for a mainline loop for passenger service. I have vasilated between HOn3 for open scenery between operations, and On30 for the locomotive detail I admire. Solution... got permission for a little more room. Planning a "U" shape using 4X8 sheets, with one leg being 16 feet the other leg being 11 feet, and the base of the "U" being 12 feet. Do you guys feel this is suitable for On30?

On30 and On3 are not the same. On3 is O scale (1/48) running on track that is 3 feet (36 inches) wide in O scale. On30 track is the same width as HO standard gauge track (although the ties are the wrong size), which means there is a lot of kitbashing of HO scale mechanisms for On30 motive power. On3 track is wider than On30 (6 scale inches) and can't use HO mechanisms (or On30 equipment.) As many have mentioned, 30" gauge was very rarely used in the united states, if at all--but it is a common stand-in for 2' gauge equipment.

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Posted by fwright on Monday, March 17, 2014 12:50 PM

HOn2 generally uses N gauge for their track, which does scale out to 30" in HO scale.  The scale/gauge disparity is/was accepted to be able to use N mechanisms, track, and wheels when there are not enough users to produce for a new gauge.  At the time HOn30 was developed, N scale/gauge was the smallest practical scale/gauge combination.  HOn30 is typically used to model 2ft gauge in HO, since HOn3 is an accepted scale/gauge with commercial support.

Like I said, I've heard of maybe two modelers who have ever attempted true HOn2 (7mm gauge at 3.5mm/ft).

Sn2 uses HOn3 (10.5mm vs the correct 9.5mm) for the same reasons.

To my knowledge, only On2 established enough of a commercial following to use a true scale/gauge relationship for an n2 scale.  But the advent of On30, with nice RTR models of 2 ft gauge prototypes has pushed many would-be On2 modelers to use On30 as a substitute for On2.

It boils down to whether or not to accept a scale/gauge disparity or make everything track and locomotive-related yourself.  More often than building everything yourself has been the use of a standard modeling gauge and a custom scale to make things come out correctly.  55n3 scale is a modern example, using HO track (16.5mm gauge) with 5.5mm/ft scale, to representing 3ft gauge at 1/55 scale.  HO gauge mechanisms and details, particularly those that are over-size, look pretty good in 55n3.

The various scales using the same #1 gauge track are another example.  1/20.3 is true for 3ft gauge prototypes, whatever LGB used for a scale is true for meter gauge prototypes, and 1/32 is correct for standard gauge, all using the same track.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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Posted by Catt on Monday, March 17, 2014 12:36 PM

Z gauge track is used for Nn3 as it is almost 36" wide when used in N scale.

Johnathan(Catt) Edwards 100 % Michigan Made
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 17, 2014 11:30 AM

fwright
Similar to On30, HOn2 is usually HOn30, using N track gauge to represent 2ft gauge in HO scale.

Wouldn´t that be HOn30?

HOn2 would be something like 7.1 mm, or .6mm larger than Z scale track.

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Posted by fwright on Monday, March 17, 2014 11:19 AM

Fouled Anchor

....So, now I am considering HOn2 because of the reasons you mentioned, and am figuring the brass would be more affordable, and the selection greater. I downloaded that XTrackCAD, and right away got into issues using On3 for planning. How is brass detail for HOn2?

Similar to On30, HOn2 is usually HOn30, using N track gauge to represent 2ft gauge in HO scale.  (9mm = 30.9" in HO scale).  Due to a lack of non-brass locomotives in HOn3, HOn30 became somewhat popular in the 1980s. 

There were some brass models (Flying Zoo and Joe Works are the brands I remember) made which tended to run as well as (or not) as their HOn3 bethren - these are still available used at e-Bay and similar.  Those who didn't want to or couldn't pay for brass locos made their own using N mechanisms as the basis for their bashes.  There is still a cottage industry supporting HOn2/HOn30, which has been revitalized to some extent by 3D printing at companies like Shapeways.  David Huff (no web site) made some nice HOn30 stuff (mostly logging prototype) before his recent move into the Civil War era.

I have heard of a couple of HOn3 modelers who moved into or added true HOn2 to model the Gilpin Tram (2ft gauge) mining line in Colorado.

To represent 2ft gauge, On30 would be a lot easier to get started in unless you enjoy model building and bashing.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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Posted by Fouled Anchor on Monday, March 17, 2014 11:11 AM

Dang Sir Madog... now ya got me thinkin back on the On30 again. I am planning (using AnyRail 5) on a 2' shelf, but at each end of the U, a 4' square to handle a turn around for a continuous loop. The mining operation will all be point to point. What track are you planning to use? Gonna swith AnyRail over to On30 and see what fits. What minimum radius are you using? Dang.

 

Steve

Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 16, 2014 5:10 AM

Wow, what a move! From On30 to HOn2!

To my knowledge, hardly anything is available R-T-R for that gauge. It´s pretty much a scratchbuilder´s scale and gauge. You even have to hand-lay your track.

Regarding IronRooster´s comment on the space you have, I agree to kindly disagree. I am in the process of building a T-shaped shelf layout, which is basically a 10´6" by 1´8" shelf with a leg of of 2´10" by 1´8" sticking out in the middle. It is loosely set somewhere on the Maine coast, so with lot´s of water.

 The plan does not include some minor changes I have made in the meantime, however, something like this could be easily expanded into an around-the walls layout in your room.

The May 2008 issue of MR also featured a nice 10 by 12 layout called the Mojave & Death Valley RR - it´s worth taking a look at it!

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Posted by Fouled Anchor on Saturday, March 15, 2014 11:16 AM

Thanks IronRooster, that makes a lot of sense. The layout is a "U" shape, one leg being 11', the other 11', and the base of the "U" is 12'. So, now I am considering HOn2 because of the reasons you mentioned, and am figuring the brass would be more affordable, and the selection greater. I downloaded that XTrackCAD, and right away got into issues using On3 for planning. How is brass detail for HOn2?

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 15, 2014 2:45 AM

G Paine
Ulrich, could that loco be from Henchel Werk, like the 2 ft one in Boothbay I showed above (not the blue one).

The loco was built in 1953 by Lokomotivbau Karl Marx in Babelsberg, near Berlin and noperated on various narrow gauge lines of Deutsche Reichsbahn in the former communistic part of Germany.

LKM used to be Orenstein & Koppel, before being forcibly nationalized by the East German government.

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, March 15, 2014 2:01 AM

As others have noted, Bachmann is the way to go, especially if you want to stay under $500 per engine.  Consider scratch building your cars.  They are wood and relatively easy to do.

You will find the 10x10 to be kinda of small for your layout.  While the trains are narrow gauge and smaller, the buildings are still O scale.  Even using 1900 era buildings, you'll have to be selective of prototype and probably compress them as well.  I would suggest you consider either mining or lumbering, not both - especially if you're trying to cover the whole operation.

Good luck

Paul

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Posted by Geared Steam on Friday, March 14, 2014 8:07 PM

Back to the OP's question, Bachmann's line is affordable and reliable, plus the warranty is there to back you up.

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, March 14, 2014 6:51 PM

There are more than one company that make superstructures for conversion of HO engines!

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 14, 2014 4:55 PM

Actually all of the Bachmann engines are based on real engines, but not all the same gauge. Their early products (like the 2-6-0) are based on Colorado 3' gauge railroads (D&RGW, RGS etc.). Some of their newer engines and cars are based on 2' gauge railroads from Maine, and a few of their engines are based on actual 30" gauge engines built by US manufacturers.

p.s. Just for background, HO gauge track works out in US O scale (1/4" = 1 foot) to be 30" wide, which inspired some modellers years ago to use it to model 2' or 3' gauge railroads. Bachmann started making On30 stuff a decade or so ago, and it's proved to be very popular.

Stix
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Posted by G Paine on Friday, March 14, 2014 4:40 PM

Ulrich, could that loco be from Henchel Werk, like the 2 ft one in Boothbay I showed above (not the blue one). Those 0-4-0Ts worked the Hamburg docks before emigrating to Maine

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 14, 2014 3:35 PM

Just an example of a German 2 1/2 line still in operation (with steam!):

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Posted by Fouled Anchor on Friday, March 14, 2014 2:49 PM

So, the track is correct but the locos and cars are not? Are there different codes available for On30. If I was to get a Bachman Climax in On30, the wheels and trucks would be correctly sized, but not the body?

I'll check out MicroMark, thanks.

Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.

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