Gee! ''Snow White'' only had seven dwarfs!
Striped
hon30critter Thanks to all for your input, including those who rode me a little hard over the number of dwarfs I was contemplating.
Thanks to all for your input, including those who rode me a little hard over the number of dwarfs I was contemplating.
Hey, I had no problem with 45 dwarfs !!!
Rich
Alton Junction
After all this go round I have to confess that there was a much simpler solution right under my nose had I bothered to think about it. Thanks to input from Mike L, Ed, Brakie and dhuseman and others on my thread in the Prototype Discussion I realized that what I really wanted was illuminated switch stands on my yard turnouts, not dwarfs. To do dwarfs on 15 turnouts would have required 40 or more signals (generally 3 per turnout with a couple left out for the RIP track etc.). However, to do illuminated switch stands only requires 15 stands. I still get indication from both directions and I won't be overdoing the light thing as badly as some had expressed concern about.
I will still need a few dwarfs for controlling access to the mainline but not nearly as many as I had originally thought.
This of course negates any possible savings from 3D printing which was where the discussion started, but I at least have learned how to scratch build the dwarfs I need. I have a Tomar illuminated switch stand on order so I can see if I can figure out how to build those myself too.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave,
You are welcome!
Regards from Oz
Trevor
Trevor:
Thank you for the idea of using Kadee coupler boxes as a start for dwarf signals. That is a really good idea and one which saves a lot of fussy work trying to make the lense hoods. I have a large surplus of Kadee parts which I deliberately kept "just in case". Well whatta ya know - here is the 'just in case'!
HI Dave,
Just my take on how to make a signal... you will have to copy and paste the link as digitalzones does not like hot links directly from other sites
http://xdford.digitalzones.com/modelrr11.htm
I probably built my LED ground signals for much less than a dollar each.
Or use some other templates from the other page using the signal heads
http://xdford.digitalzones.com/modelrr21.htm
or contact me off line as there is another method using stickers on plastic or brass
Cheers from Australia
Hope this helps and good luck
Hey Rich!
Great minds think alike eh!! I love lighting too. I had some wiring done last year and one of the things they did for me was to run a 20 amp circuit into the garage specifically for the train room. By the way I am going with lighting I may need to run a second 20 amp circuit!
Thanks for your encouragement!
hon30critter By the way, if it is of any comfort to anyone, I have the number of dwarf signals down to 37 or so.
By the way, if it is of any comfort to anyone, I have the number of dwarf signals down to 37 or so.
alco_fan:
I went back and reread Dave H's post in the other thread and indeed you are right. He was referring to yards in general. I initially read his answer with service facilities in my mind only, which was the question that I asked.
Oh well, apparently I am going to be offending some people if I put dwarf signals in my yard. Hope they don't lose any sleep.
Hi Rich:
I am kind of headed in that direction. The street lights that I did recently were made assembly line style and it worked out well, and the video you posted gave me some pretty good ideas of how to build the dwarfs. Thanks again for that.
I thought 3D printing might be worth exploring for a project like this but the more I learn about it the less I want to get involved. I'm too much of a dinosaur to risk getting something wrong and ending up with a whole lot of expensive junk.
hon30critterJust to clarify, the other thread was specifically talking about dwarf signals in a service yard, not a switching yard.
"Engine service yard" is primarily a modeler term. I do not believe that real railroaders use it.
Just to clarify, I am pretty certain he was talking about yards _in general_. I will not bother you further.
I'm going to leave it with this comment.
If you decide to install 30 to 45 dwarfs, and you want them to be operating, then the most cost-efficient approach would be to set up an assembly line process and build them yourself.
Just to clarify, the other thread was specifically talking about dwarf signals in a service yard, not a switching yard. I said in the other thread that I agreed with Dave H's opinion that there would be minimal dwarf signals in a service yard so I only plan on using two there. However, I am seriously considering putting dwarf signals on each turnout in my switching yard. Although the practise might not have been common it was definately done in many yards.
Also, I deliberately posted two different threads. The original topic of this thread was not so much dwarf signals but copyright infringement when using 3D printing. Dwarf signals just happened to be what I was considering having printed. They seem to have hijacked the thread all on their own.
Anyhow, thank you for your concerns about the realism on my layout but, like you said, I will suit myself.
Take care.
Here is the other thread if anyone is interested:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/228083.aspx
(To get it to work, highlight it, right click on it, and choose the appropriate command in the box that appears)
hon30critter I mean no disrespect here, but "its my railroad and I will do what I want"! So what if it looks like a flattened Christmas tree!
Suit yourself. your money and time, your non typical yard appearance when you are done.
Just bear in mind what the professional railroader told you in your other thread on the topic:
dehusmanUnless you are modeling a hump yard, you would probably only need 2 maybe 3 signals, just at the places there was a connection from the yard into the main track. _Inside_ the yard, signals are _very rare_.
Emphasis added
Rich:
Thanks for the links to the scratch built dwarfs. The first one looks very realistic, not so much the second. I have worked with bi-colour SMD LEDs before but they may have been bigger than those used in the second tutorial. The ones I used were about the same width as a 3mm regular LED so I don't see an advantage to using SMDs. I only used them because I needed something flat to fit in the space.
Anyhow, I had been considering making them myself so the videos were very helpful.
Steven S richhotrain You can also buy pre-assembled enclosures dirt cheap. I have used these on portions of my layout: http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-HO-SCALE-DWARF-SIGNAL-LEDS-3MM-BIPOLAR-RED-GREEN-/231134070040 I mentioned those in a previous post but he said he wanted something more prototypical. You mention you've got some. I was wondering how thick the plastic was. Do you think it's thick enough to round over the top edges so it looks like this.... http://home.comcast.net/~regalpug/dy_j3.html Steve S
richhotrain You can also buy pre-assembled enclosures dirt cheap. I have used these on portions of my layout: http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-HO-SCALE-DWARF-SIGNAL-LEDS-3MM-BIPOLAR-RED-GREEN-/231134070040
I mentioned those in a previous post but he said he wanted something more prototypical. You mention you've got some. I was wondering how thick the plastic was. Do you think it's thick enough to round over the top edges so it looks like this....
http://home.comcast.net/~regalpug/dy_j3.html
Steve S
But I do have some of those shown in that eBay link.
richhotrainYou can also buy pre-assembled enclosures dirt cheap. I have used these on portions of my layout: http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-HO-SCALE-DWARF-SIGNAL-LEDS-3MM-BIPOLAR-RED-GREEN-/231134070040
Faced with the likelihood of coming up with 30 to 45 dwarf signals, have you thought abut making your own operating dwarf signals?
Here are some links to some excellent tutorials:
http://www.nyx.net/~jpurbric/railroads/dwarfs/
http://abrams_railroad.home.comcast.net/~abrams_railroad/DwarfSignals.pdf
You can also buy pre-assembled enclosures dirt cheap. I have used these on portions of my layout:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-HO-SCALE-DWARF-SIGNAL-LEDS-3MM-BIPOLAR-RED-GREEN-/231134070040
If the ones on eBay don't exactly look like dwarfs, you can always fabricate the shrouds out of thin styrene.
Alos, note that an HO scale dwarf signal is pretty small, so most of the detail is lost, once placed on the layout.
Steve:
The handling fee is just one more question to ask. Logic suggests that it would only be charged once per print, hopefully.
Alco_fan:
Ya - I'm going a bit nuts here. It is a small yard with a total of 15 turnouts. I'm beginning to realize that the logistics of installing and wiring 45 dwarf signals could be a bit daunting. However, I think they look neat and I really want them in my yard. I mean no disrespect here, but "its my railroad and I will do what I want"! So what if it looks like a flattened Christmas tree! And besides, why should I not have all the"whiz bang gizmos and gadgets" that I want? Now I'm sounding like a spoiled brat!
The biggest challenge will be doing all the wiring, not just for the dwarf signals, but for all the other details like street lights, main line signals, structure lighting, switch machines etc. etc. plus of course the power buses and track feeders. I would like to have a staging level below the main layout but I haven't figured out how to do that without blocking access to the underside of the main layout. I am thinking that I might have to build the staging in segments after the main layout is wired.
Have no fear! I will figure it out!!
hon30critterwill now have to figure that into things. Not really a big deal actually given current LED technology. What scares me is that now that I better understand where the dwarf signals would be placed I apparently need 45 of the things to do my yard! Now you can see why I am trying to do them cheap!
Are you modeling a major urban passenger terminal?
Most freight yards _did not_ have dwarf signals at every switch. Maybe one, two, or a handful to enter or leave a yard. What era, railroad and location are you modeling?
If you just want them because you think they are cool, good for you. But it is certainly not a must have in most prototype situations.
If you only want switch alignment indication, just look at the points. Simple and free.
The article is about something those guys did on a layout that was meant to have all the whiz bang gizmos and gadgets. It is not necessarily typcial railroad practice for the average freight yard.
hon30critter That raises the possibility of multiple signals being made in one printing, but the size of each signal stays the same so the cost per signal (i.e. number of cm3) will still work out the same.
There is a handling fee per object in addition to the material cost. If you have five signals connected together by sprue to form a single model, then the handling fee will apply to that as one model. (Of course the sprue will add to the cost of material, so keep it to a minimum.)
But if your model is just one signal, and you order five of them at one time, I think they'll hit you for five handling fees. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
Hi again Steve:
I understand that the bounding box represents the maximum size that an item can be printed, but I did misunderstand what the size of the box was. My math skills seemed to disappear at about the same time that my knees went south. The box is much bigger than I first thought. That raises the possibility of multiple signals being made in one printing, but the size of each signal stays the same so the cost per signal (i.e. number of cm3) will still work out the same.
For those following the thread, I found a very informative article in the October 1954 issue of MR. It explains very clearly how dwarf signals were used and where they were placed. In particular, I learned that there would be different colour indications depending on where each signal was located on the switch. I had naively assumed that I could just use green and red but the article points out that amber was also used in certain locations so I will now have to figure that into things. Not really a big deal actually given current LED technology. What scares me is that now that I better understand where the dwarf signals would be placed I apparently need 45 of the things to do my yard! Now you can see why I am trying to do them cheap!
hon30critterI think I misunderstood the size of the boundary box. I'll go at that again.
It's not the volume of the bounding box that determines price. It's the actual volume of material used. The bounding box is just a reference to make sure you don't exceed the maximum size of the printer.
Hey Rich:
Thanks for the eBay lead. The price is good. I'm a bit stuck right now because if I want to have signals on every route of every turnout in my yard I am looking at about 30 units. That's beyond what I was hoping to spend. Likewise with the 3D signals. I was hoping that they would come out much cheaper. I am questioning my math on the 3D price calculation. I think I misunderstood the size of the boundary box. I'll go at that again.
Check out the H-875 from Tomar Industries.
It looks very similar to the NJ International dwarf and it comes with a tri-colored LED, red, yellow, green.
You can wire it for just red/green if that is your preference.
A hobby shop on eBay is selling them for $10 apiece.
The style I had in mind was more like the NJ International single head units. M B Klein has them for $15.99 US but they only show one colour aspect. I want to be able to show red or green simply for the purpose of showing switch alignment in my yard.
Steven S It's a 3D model, not a program.
It's a 3D model, not a program.
Actually, both. The 3D model is simply a dataset used to create a program for the printer head.
Dave, for that amount of money, $8.50 each, why not just buy the real thing.
I use operating dwarf signals from Tomar Industries in my passenger station and freight yard and sidings.
MB Klein has them in stock at $9 per dwarf signal.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=tomar+dwarf