benchwork legs

[wickman]

Hi  guys

I'm about to  start the benchwork for the new layout and I  want  to do it best I  can  this time around.I'm going with  the  open grid around  the wall  benchwork. I  will be  using 1x4  pine for frame  work.

 Was curious  what is suggested  for the legs for the layout. I'll  post  the trackplan as well so  you get the feel   for  the  structure of  the benchwork.

thanks

Lynn

 

[Anonymous]

I´d be using 4" by 4"´s, connected with a 1" by 3" as a crossmember to form a figure "H". The crossmember should be located in the lower third. As floors are never level, I suggest using something like this:

... to level the layout.

[cjcrescent]

2x2's placed where needed will work. But you could also use 1x4's placed in an L configuration, or even 2x4's. On my layout, a 3-level affair, I have 2x4's on the backside of the layout, 2x2's on the front. The top level has the 2x4's in the back and is attached to the ceiling via threaded rod in the front. My layout is 17'x23' and is accessible from all sides.

 Probably anything you want to use would be acceptible.

[zstripe]

I would use the 1x4's L shape like Carey, suggested, inside corners they will fit perfect and easier to put on sway braces, on the inside of frame. I personnally use 1x3's, that I rip myself and the frame is 1x3's, I have a rather large layout, open grid and flat, 121/2x40x12/12, 1/2 exterior ply, plus 1/2 homasote. Nothing moves, you can sit on it, if you had to. My experience only.

Frank

BTW: Should mention, it is all glued, with yellow carpenters glue and drywall screw's. Some parts are glued and nailed with a CH air brad nailer, like the legs.

[mokenarr]

I did what Frank did using Birch Plywood and I think I could run a real train on it , really strong.  On the bottom I glued a square peice and mounted some leg levelers from Ace Hardware    

[riogrande5761]

4x4 would be tremendous overkill and would hold up a house, but 2x2 should work fine.  Here is a photo of my benchwork in the process of going up:

 

[mlehman]

2x2 will work fine, just be sure to brace it in some form or fashion, as Jim shows in his pic.

I used 2x2 for a lot of my layout. But for the large center peninsulas, I constructed pairs of well braced frames that had T-section legs made from 1x3. These hold up my main L-girders in those areas. The T-section legs are nice for this, because they provide a place for the ends of bracing to nestle up against.

Another trick to use for bracing at the top of the legs is to cut plywood gussets that can be screwed to the leg and to the L-girder or stringer at the top.

[bogp40]

mlehman

2x2 will work fine, just be sure to brace it in some form or fashion, as Jim shows in his pic.

I used 2x2 for a lot of my layout. But for the large center peninsulas, I constructed pairs of well braced frames that had T-section legs made from 1x3. These hold up my main L-girders in those areas. The T-section legs are nice for this, because they provide a place for the ends of bracing to nestle up against.

Another trick to use for bracing at the top of the legs is to cut plywood gussets that can be screwed to the leg and to the L-girder or stringer at the top.

 

Agreed, even a combination will work depending on the mountind and method of bracing.

For a bit more stability, place a horizontal brace closer to the base of the leg. Although the 2x2 or "L" 3/4" is quite strong, an unintentional "kick" will "shake" the layout as the leg flexes.

My club layout is somewhat large and free standing, we use various methods for leg/ bracing. For added stability, each leg is attached to the concrete floor w/ brackets and Tapcons. This may not be acceptible as many can't drill/ anchor into nice floor and/ or carpet.

For such a heavy freestaning layout, the bracing shown is very stable.

[yankee flyer]

Hi Lynn

Although in a past life,(I'm 75) I did a lot of cabinet work, when it comes to a model railroad layout in the basement I'm all for moderate priced materials.
The last 8' addition to mine I used a 4' X 8'  sheet of plywood, I don't remember the actual grade but there didn't seem to be any voids in it.
I still have my cast iron table saw so I ripped the 4' X 8' into joist, beams and legs. I don't expect any warping or shrinking of the plywood.
As for ajusting the height of the legs, I shim the table level then drop a short piece of scrap 2" X 2" in the "L" of the leg and and put 3 or 4 screws in it. Simple an effective. IMHO

Have fun.

Lee

Oh, The legs are straight although from the camera angle it may not look that way. 

 

[wickman]

Thanks guys for the great responses and the photos, photos  always  help the best. My  last  layout I  used the 2  1x4's in an  L shape and  had the  threaded teeth things that were tapped into a  bottom plate  of the L shaped  leg and  a  bolt  that was adjusted  in  or  out to level  the  benchwork . The last  layout was 36  inch to  the  base of the  benchwork top. I'm thinking  this layout  will be  about  50 inch to  the  lowest  level of the grid top, so I will have to think about this somemore. You's gave some great ideas. Jim your excellent cabinet making skills still show from your other life. 

Thanks

Lynn

[rrinker]

 Since everywhere I looked around here, there wasn't a straight, untwisted 2x2 to be found, I made my legs by using a 1x3 and a 1x2 in an L shape. Short pieces of 2x2 were put at the bottom so I had something to screw the adjustable feet in to. These have proven to be plenty sturdy. There are some photos on my web site.

                  --Randy

[Phoebe Vet]

rrinker

 Since everywhere I looked around here, there wasn't a straight, untwisted 2x2 to be found, I made my legs by using a 1x3 and a 1x2 in an L shape. Short pieces of 2x2 were put at the bottom so I had something to screw the adjustable feet in to. These have proven to be plenty sturdy. There are some photos on my web site.

                  --Randy

 

The secret is to shop at a real lumber yard instead of a home improvement store.

[alco_fan]

4X4 and 2X4 are way larger than needed. Like others posted, L girder 1X3 and 1X2 with good trangle bracing will not wobble and are also lighter and cheaper.

[maxman]

Actually I use 2X3.  2X4 is overkill.  With the 2X3 you can still nstall a T-nut, and you don't have to do all the fabrication when you make the leg out of 1X4.

[riogrande5761]

I didn't see any 2x3's at my local "home improvemant" store - but I'll have to look again next time I am there.  The 2x2's seem to be working ok though with braces.

[BATMAN]

Phoebe Vet

The secret is to shop at a real lumber yard instead of a home improvement store.

This is the best advice I've seen in a long time when it comes to lumber for benchwork.  All my lumber for anything is bought at the local independent lumber yard. I think Home Depots           1" x 4"s are spruce whereas they are Fir at the local independent. I still have a few left over from when I built my layout and they are straight as arrows after all these years.

Also you can still buy screws and nails in bulk by weight. That $20.00 box of screws at Home Depot is about $4.00 out of the bulk bin at any of my local independent lumber yards. I think to many people get brainwashed to go to Home Depot, go directly to Home Depot do not pass GO!

[wickman]

Thanks guys, moving right along with the bench work here, 3 sections built. For 1x4 open grid construction is it recommended 3 screws per joint? 

[zstripe]

I have always used two,1/2'' from outside, but I also put a bead of carpenters yellow glue on. 1x3's.

Frank

[rdgk1se3019]

Howdy

 

The next few pics are of my layout and how I made legs for it...........I used poplar 1/2 x 2 and 1 x 2 for the legs............at the bottom of the legs I doubled up on the wood and used a "T" nut with a leg leveler bolt (it gives a little bit of swivel).

 

[doctorwayne]

I used mostly 2"x4"s to support my layout, but there are also some 4"x4"s under the peninsula.  All were mysteriously part of the lumber left-over after building my own house - "somebody" must have "accidentally" over-ordered material.
Part of the reason for that is that such dimensional lumber is considerably cheaper than the "Select" pine which was used to construct the open-grid actual layout portion. (All of the materials, by the way, are from a real lumber yard.)   The other reason is because most of the layout has a fully-framed plywood shelf beneath it, for storage of all manner of household stuff, tools, toys, lumber, etc.:

Some of it is also used for storing train stuff, as shown here.  There are stacked staging yards above (there's another level yet to be built) and trains coming into them will have their cars removed from the layout and returned to their respective boxes, while new ones will take their place:

All of the supporting structure is lag-bolted to the wall studs, and eventually, there'll be sliding doors and lift-off panels to hide the clutter below while still leaving it easily accessible.
Like Lee, I levelled the open grid layout atop this support structure with short risers screwed in place.
There'll eventually be a full-depth partial second level, too.  It'll be lag-bolted to the studs and also supported by brackets welded from angle iron.  While this may also appear to be overkill, the brackets will also support undermounted fluorescent fixtures for lighting the lower level.

Wayne

[rrinker]

 If only we still had those small lumber yards around here. Not one here that is not one of the chains, HD, Lowes, or 84 Lumber. Independent hardware stores - we have those, but they don't carry lumber.

 The 1x4;s, 1x3's, and 1x2's I get at HD and Lowes are good quality and straight. Only the one Lowes even has 2x2's that are not pressure treated for deck railings, and they are always twisted. HD and Lowes both have other dimensial lumber besides pine. Though I've never seen much need to use any of the fancier woods for layout benchwork.

                   --Randy

 

[tomikawaTT]

For my first peninsula I supported the steel stud 'C acts like L' girders with heavywall steel studs, angle-braced to the girder and the connecting joist.

All of the rest of my legs are 2x4 wood, studs, the cheapest thing on the lumber aisle.

The wooden legs have two advantages:

1. They accept levelers without modification.  Since I'm building on a concrete floor I threaded lag bolts into the bottoms of the legs.
2. CHEEP!!!

Actually, the 2x4s I used were salvaged from some in-house demolition, so they were already fully dry.  Unlike fresh-bought stock, they didn't develop undesired twists and curves after being moved into the layout space.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[wickman]

Some nice layout setups and  great info.

Got the old room  benchwork together and now  just need to make some  legs,  going  to go the 1x3 L shape route. Strange thing , went to the lumber store and 1x3  per Linear foot was more expensive than 1x4, go  figure. Wanted to  know though  do  you's put legs  at the wall  side of the layout  along with the outer edge or  simply  screw to the wall and  leg the outer  edge( front)? I'm thinking  legs all around.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks 

Lynn

[NittanyLion]

rrinker

 If only we still had those small lumber yards around here. Not one here that is not one of the chains, HD, Lowes, or 84 Lumber. Independent hardware stores - we have those, but they don't carry lumber.

 The 1x4;s, 1x3's, and 1x2's I get at HD and Lowes are good quality and straight. Only the one Lowes even has 2x2's that are not pressure treated for deck railings, and they are always twisted. HD and Lowes both have other dimensial lumber besides pine. Though I've never seen much need to use any of the fancier woods for layout benchwork.

                   --Randy

 

 

2x2s are strange strange beasts.  One of the HDs around me has some of the straighest and cleanest 2x2s I've ever seen.  Go a couple miles down the road to another HD (we're talking less than five miles too) and they're nightmares of twists and bends.

[rrinker]

 That's why I did it the way I did, they don;t have to be very straight. I buy an 8 footer, have them chop it approximately in half so it fits in my car, and then I cut it up into 2-3" sections on my miter saw. Making the L-shaped legs also means I have two flanges to attach the braces to. And I can use shorter bolts since it only has to go through about an inch and a half of wood instead of 2 1/2". And there's still the place to install the levellers. Critical on cement floors - you want something on the bottom so the wood does not sit in contact with the cement, even if you don't actually use it to level the benchwork.

                    --Randy

 

[wickman]

rrinker

 That's why I did it the way I did, they don;t have to be very straight. I buy an 8 footer, have them chop it approximately in half so it fits in my car, and then I cut it up into 2-3" sections on my miter saw. Making the L-shaped legs also means I have two flanges to attach the braces to. And I can use shorter bolts since it only has to go through about an inch and a half of wood instead of 2 1/2". And there's still the place to install the levellers. Critical on cement floors - you want something on the bottom so the wood does not sit in contact with the cement, even if you don't actually use it to level the benchwork.

                    --Randy

 

 

im a bit confused Randy, are saying you make the legs 2foot 3" in length?

lynn

[zstripe]

I hope Randy meant 2, three foot sections, either that he is awful short.

Frank

[wickman]

zstripe

I hope Randy meant 2, three foot sections, either that he is awful short.

Frank

 

Me too. My last layout was 36" to the floor from lowest benchwork top. This layout I plan to be 50 inch at the lowest point. 

Lynn

[rdgk1se3019]

I think Randy meant 2" to 3" pieces.

[zstripe]

Quote:

rdgk1se3019 wrote the following post an hour ago:

I think Randy meant 2" to 3" pieces.

---

 

I believe when he typed, 2-3'', he meant, 2-3' foot legs, in a L shape, one too many hash marks after the 3. What could you possibly do, with, 2'' to 3'' piece L shape legs.

Frank