$90,000 Ebay Auction

[Michael6792]

It's sad that our empires hold such a small dollar value knowing what we put into them. Several years ago, my mother in law's uncle died & he had a decent HO scale layout in his basement. The family sold off all of the locomotives, rolling stock, and structures for $2000.00, which I'm sure the buyer then re-sold on E-Bay. I was told there was some quality locos in the lot but I never did see the collection. The layout itself is still in the basement (it's not huge, but built in place) an I have been offered it several times....just come & get it but I have no desire to do so. It's a nice looking layout but I have no space for it & to cut it apart to move it, well I'm sure there wouldn't be much left in the end....

[IRONROOSTER]

This reminds me of a guy in Florida years ago who had a separate building for his O gauge trains.  He was trying to sell the house, train building, and trains at a price to recoup his "investment".  Sadly no one wanted it and his ads tooks on a bitter tone.

Salvage value for models is low except for geniune collectibiles - none of which I see in the pictures.  Layouts/track are worse - his appears to be mostly track laid on plywood or OSB, little scenery, ballasting.  The layout itself appears to have too much track laid haphazardly and not worth keeping intact.  Frankly, I think he would do well to get a tenth of his price. 

Piecing it out might get more depending on what he actually has.  Given the quantity and his age, a company that does eBay for you might be his best/easiest bet.  Although the remoteness works against it.

A reminder to us all that model railoading is a recreational hobby not an investment.  Also a reminder to put together an inventory of what we have, so when it does come time for us or our heirs to sell it there is a list of what there is.  Hopefully, with realistic resell values.

I wish the seller good luck and hope the experience doesn't leave him bitter.

Paul

[Soo Line fan]

About 10 years ago, my wife was looking at my layout. She began counting engines and then went to the over flow case. She got up to 30 and this was not including the 6 duplicate NIB Katos, Atlas and Stewarts that I had squired away "just in case".

She did it out of curiosity and was not implying I needed to stop. While I did not stop, I did slow to a crawl. 

A good lesson is to buy only what you can use. Having boxes and boxes of locomotives which never or rarely turn a wheel is crazy. Some day you may need that money and getting some of it back will be difficult if not impossible.

[Michael6792]

After buying & selling used trains over the last few years, (mostly locomotives) I can say that the value of used equipment is not what some people seem to think it is. When it comes to Bachmann or Life Like, even if they run well the are only worth $5.00-$10.00. AHM & Tyco in the $15.00 range & Athearn blue box locos $25.00-$30.00 depending on the locomotive. Used freight cars have very little value, while good passenger cars can still bring a fairly decent buck. In the N Scale market Atlas & Kato locomotives can bring a good price but again, Bachmann & Life Like not so much. Atlas & Micro Trains freight cars are pretty desireable in N Scale & passenger cars as well but but when it comes to track & structures in either scale they are worth pennies on the dollar. Selling off a layout that size piece by piece he will be able to put some decent money in his pocket, but nowhere near the $90,000 he's looking for. Used layouts are just not that desireable, even a small 4x8 is hard to sell since most people wantto build their own the way they want it to operate. Last year I picked up a 4x8 layout to use as a test track for $25.00 because the seller couldn't get rid of it. It was just a basic double oval with a few sidings but worked out great for what I wanted it for. I couldn't have bought the lumber to make a table for that price.

[caldreamer]

I saw a lot of Athearn blue box and other vintage cars and engines . No good quality engiens shown and NO brass engines.   Since he is asking $90,000.00  for it, I wnder what he has been smoking?  Is he is Colorado????

[Milepost 266.2]

Maybe his wife is bugging him to get rid of his trains, so he advertised it at an inflated price so it will never sell.

And if it does happen to sell, well, $$$$

[riogrande5761]

Soo Line fan

A good lesson is to buy only what you can use. Having boxes and boxes of locomotives which never or rarely turn a wheel is crazy. Some day you may need that money and getting some of it back will be difficult if not impossible.

Like many, I have way more trains than I can use, and it's mainly been in storage having been through a chapter of my life.  But I've also been trying to rationalize my roster and selling off items that don't fit my goals.  Lately I've been trying to be pragmatic and brutal and everytime I go through my boxes I find items I can sell, and am listing them partly to get rid of items that are of the wrong time frame, but also to help me pay for newer items or items I couldn't afford when they came out, that fit my era.  I've got a couple boxes of stuff next to my desk that are all slated to be sold.  Most of my stuff is NIB or only run a little, so I'm selling it now before it becomes difficult or impossible.

[last mountain & eastern hogger]

Thank you Earl Symonds  for your contributions over the years to our hobby of Model railroading.

May you have a successful closing of your life long Railroad as you did in closing stations for the CNR.

Best wishes in the future.

Johnboy out.............................................

 

[tatans]

From the photos this looks a little like "hoarding" just because you CAN buy all this stuff does not justify  purchasing it, ,  look at all those power packs, and repetetive items, and that rack of boxes and boxes and boxes of unbuilt kits, don't tell me he didn't know he had too many and not ever enough time to build them, I have actually seen basements with almost as much "stuff", ( this may be a lesson to some of you guys out there too !) This predicament is self-induced with not one iota of thought as to the future of all this "stuff', sorry. I have no sympathy for this seller, he did it, he knew what he was doing now he(and probably someone else) will have to pay for his mistakes- - - Sad, indeed.

Also on the ad, he is from Canada and the ad notes "May not ship to Canada"   oh well, thats ebay eh?

[CTValleyRR]

I was going to comment on this before I knew anything about the seller. Now that I know, I will still make the comments, althought I will temper them a little by saying that I do feel sorry for the owner. It must be gutwrenching to have to get rid of his dream layout and hobby after so many years.

That said, my observations:

1) Asking someone to pay a large sum of money AND come and rip id down, package it up, and pay for shipping, transportaion, lodging, etc, on top of is doesn't pass the common sense test, no matter what your circumstances).

2) How many times do you have to repost your item after a no-bid auctuon before the realization sets in that your price is too high, your terms unreasonable, or both? Again, it doesn't matter what your personal circumstances are.

3) There are a bunch of shyster insurance companies out there who will over-assess the value of an item so as to charge you a higher premium for it. 'Nuff said.

4) Value is a very individual concept. The layout tha you have spent thousands of dollars and hours of effort on (and probably derived hours of enjoyment from as well), is worth much more to it's owner than to anyome else. This is especially truein this hobby, where each of us designs a layout to suit our individual tastes. Moreover, while my craftsmanship is adequate for my own purposes, I am inder no illusion that a great many people will line up to buy it. So except to its original owner, a layout really is worth less than the sum of its parts.

Given the gentleman's circumstances, we can only hope someone can help him break this down into lots that will sell, or that some well-endowed museum with a lot of volunteer help will decide to take him up on the offer.

[justinjhnsn3]

Now Remember Everyone this layout is a museum. In one of tha articles he stated that he turned his train room into a museum. he charges $4 for the tour and has about 600 people pre year. Every one knows museum exhibits are expencive and most people can not afford to pay the money to own them.

[rrinker]

 Yes, this needs to be broken up and sold in reasonable lots. For example, I see a shelf full of old Atlas/Kato locos. If any of them ar undecorated RS-3's, and they were offered for a reasonable price (hint, $100 is NOT reasonable), I would probbaly buy some. Very few people are looking ot buy 20 of the same loco, or 50 of the same box car. Yes, it's more work, but more sales success can be realized by selling things of individually or in reasonably sized lots. Yes, more work to make all those listings. But also more likely to sell the item. And a few WILL result in bidding wars as ebay nutcases fixate on one item despite 3 others also available elsewhere, and run the price on some of those things way past what they are worth. All to the benefit of the seller.

                 --Randy

 

[Michael6792]

CTValleyRR

I was going to comment on this before I knew anything about the seller. Now that I know, I will still make the comments, althought I will temper them a little by saying that I do feel sorry for the owner. It must be gutwrenching to have to get rid of his dream layout and hobby after so many years.

That said, my observations:

1) Asking someone to pay a large sum of money AND come and rip id down, package it up, and pay for shipping, transportaion, lodging, etc, on top of is doesn't pass the common sense test, no matter what your circumstances).

2) How many times do you have to repost your item after a no-bid auctuon before the realization sets in that your price is too high, your terms unreasonable, or both? Again, it doesn't matter what your personal circumstances are.

3) There are a bunch of shyster insurance companies out there who will over-assess the value of an item so as to charge you a higher premium for it. 'Nuff said.

4) Value is a very individual concept. The layout tha you have spent thousands of dollars and hours of effort on (and probably derived hours of enjoyment from as well), is worth much more to it's owner than to anyome else. This is especially truein this hobby, where each of us designs a layout to suit our individual tastes. Moreover, while my craftsmanship is adequate for my own purposes, I am inder no illusion that a great many people will line up to buy it. So except to its original owner, a layout really is worth less than the sum of its parts.

Given the gentleman's circumstances, we can only hope someone can help him break this down into lots that will sell, or that some well-endowed museum with a lot of volunteer help will decide to take him up on the offer.

 

I have to disagree somewhat with your 3rd point. I know that insurance companies will inflate the price to get higher premiums, but they are looking at the cost of replacng every part of that railroad at todays prices. When you start adding up track, components, locomotives, rolling stock, structures, scenery, electronics, and even benchwork, you may be suprised at how quickly it adds up. I'm sure that they are also adding in the labor cost of having it built. The $150,000 apprasial might not be as far off of the mark as you might think, but that in no way dictates the value of what he has on the open market. 

If my home were to burn to the ground, it would probably cost in excess of $250,000 to replace it, but on the market today it's probably worth $125,000-$150,000.

[CTValleyRR]

Michael, that's why I ended my point with 'nuff said. The only takeaway there is that just because some insurance company appraised it at that amount doesn't mean that that's what it could be sold for. Especiallt if it's a commercial exhibit -- then ther is also some factor to account for its revenue generating potential as well.

[Mark R.]

I still stand by my original comment .... if he's trying to sell that much stuff for that much money, it's a terrible ad. To me, that's an ad by somebody who really doesn't want to sell (I know that's not the case here, but this is my impression), so just post a half baked ad, nobody will be interested and I'll just have to keep it.

If he REALLY wants to sell it, he really needs to promote it. Lots of pictures (even linked to an online album) of every individual piece along with a full description. A good salesman with a great ad can sell a piece of junk for big bucks.

 

Mark.

 

[JBCA]

A couple of things need to be said.

No one should ever enter any hobby thinking that it will return anything like the amount invested, even without counting the time spent.  I sold my custom truck ($40,000 cash investment) for $15,000, the value of an equivalent truck without the customizing.

 

Also, if there's anyone close geographically to this fellow, they should offer to help him, either to separate and list with more detail, or at least to take a bunch more photos and help with the descriptions and detail.

[richhotrain]

Mark R.

I still stand by my original comment .... if he's trying to sell that much stuff for that much money, it's a terrible ad. To me, that's an ad by somebody who really doesn't want to sell (I know that's not the case here, but this is my impression), so just post a half baked ad, nobody will be interested and I'll just have to keep it.

If he REALLY wants to sell it, he really needs to promote it. Lots of pictures (even linked to an online album) of every individual piece along with a full description. A good salesman with a great ad can sell a piece of junk for big bucks.

 

Mark.

 

 

It appears to me that the owner of the items and the eBay seller of the items are not one and the same.

Whoever did put the listing together failed miserably.  And the eBay seller has nearly 500 items to his credit based upon his feedback.  So, whoever he is, he should know better.  He even has misspelled words in the title to the auction.

Rich

[JBCA]

Mmm that makes me wonder even more if this is for real.  In shipping it says may not ship to Canada.  If he's really in Manitoba, sounds odd.

[muc2]

My guess is that the 90 grand is a marketing ploy to get noticed on the forums. Looks like he has sold quite a lot of items piece by piece the last couple of years.

[DSchmitt]

JBCA

Mmm that makes me wonder even more if this is for real. In shipping it says may not ship to Canada. If he's really in Manitoba, sounds odd.

 

But it also says:

 

"Item location:

Sandy Lake, Manitoba, Canada

 

Ships to:

Local pick-up only"

and  

"Item location: Sandy Lake, Manitoba, Canada

Shipping to: Will arrange for local pickup only (no shipping)."

[rrebell]

Actually I am surprised at what some things sell for on both ends of the spectrum but after sell off half of my collection (decided to focus more), I got back way more than I spent but then I never spent close to retail.  In fact some things are selling for more than I have been able to buy them for in the past and the true deals are fewer and farther apart.  But no, that collection is not even worth half of what he is asking unless he has a lot of rare stuff hidden there.

[richhotrain]

This thread has certainly taken its share of twists and turns.

It started out as a facetious look at an absurd auction, then grew dark for a short while over speculation that the owner of the items was down on his luck, then returned to revisit the auction.

One thing seems clear.   If you are going to start an auction for a massive model railroad collection and put the starting bid at $90,000, you better do an outstanding job of lisiting the items and making arrangements to deliver the items.

Let's face it.  Even if your name is Rod Stewart, who is going to pay $90,000 for a model railroad layout and all of its related items.  Who has ever paid $90,000 or more for anything except, perhaps, a home?  Not too many people and not in too many instances.

If this is intended to be a serious auction, break the "collection" up into smaller units and sell accordingly.  And, do a much better job on putting together the auction listing.

Rich

[BRAKIE]

richhotrain

Even if your name is Rod Stewart, who is going to pay $90,000 for a model railroad layout and all of its related items.

A lot of collectors and some memorabilia auction businesses would jump all over that because of the name Rod Stewart is attached to that model railroad stuff and they could easily triple their money.

Now Rich or Larry's name attached to those same model trains..Who? Never heard of them.

[richhotrain]

BRAKIE

 

 

richhotrain

Even if your name is Rod Stewart, who is going to pay $90,000 for a model railroad layout and all of its related items.

 

 

A lot of collectors and some memorabilia auction businesses would jump all over that because of the name Rod Stewart is attached to that model railroad stuff and they could easily triple their money.

Now Rich or Larry's name attached to those same model trains..Who? Never heard of them.

 

Larry, I would pay any price, given the chance to buy your layout.   

On the other hand, I would pay somebody $90,000 to take my layout.   

Rich

[ruderunner]

I'll take that offer Rich.  When do you want me to show up?

[gatrhumpy]

I would never buy anything from anyone who misspells something in their auction.

[Milepost 266.2]

JBCA

A couple of things need to be said.

No one should ever enter any hobby thinking that it will return anything like the amount invested, even without counting the time spent.  I sold my custom truck ($40,000 cash investment) for $15,000, the value of an equivalent truck without the customizing.

 

Also, if there's anyone close geographically to this fellow, they should offer to help him, either to separate and list with more detail, or at least to take a bunch more photos and help with the descriptions and detail.

 

I think people's expectations are sometimes too high when it comes to eBay.  The seller/owner is obviously not a professional businessperson, and there's nothing wrong with that.   Yes, an entire layout could be listed for sale in a "professional" manner with copious notes and inventory lists, accompanied by well thought out photographs, but I feel this ad reflects this layout honestly.  It is obvious that the owner/seller place a much higher value on it than any commercial value, which is (realistically) very low.  Terms for pickup are stated, and the photos reflect the quality of the items well enough.  Other than whatever may also inhabit that basement, there are no "surprses" here. 

[Medina1128]

B&O1952

What a mess! They'll end up paying somebody to take it in the long run. They will probably sell off the few good items, and the rest, most of the layout will be trashed. Some of you might remember me talking about dismantling the layout of Mr. Tom Busack, a long time Model Railroader contributor. His layout wasn't nearly this complicated, and it took me a year to get it out of their house. It was supposed to go to our rail museum, but much of it ended up at the dump. This looks to be the case as well.

-Stan

 

I'd pay one of his neighbors $100 to give me a call when the seller tosses the layout out, then just rummage through it and take what I want. 

[BRAKIE]

richhotrain

Larry, I would pay any price, given the chance to buy your layout.

 

You would be getting gyp..

[CTValleyRR]

Rich, Funny you bring up Rod Stewart. If he or any other celebrity was selling his layout, you can be that there would be some rabid fanboy (or girl) willing to pay all kinds of money for it. Maybe that's what this guy needs -- "Michael J Fox once viewed this layout" or some such. Actually, I agree that what is really needed is someone to fix the eBay sale into something more polished.