The new Bachmann DCC limits-pro or con?

[rexhea]

Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost.

The importance of the right DCC control system for you should take the highest priority, well over the fancy Dan loco's that so many have to have first. The initial cost may be a little bit higher, but at least you will know that you can grow without having to change systems.

IMHO: There are not many things worse than buying something and then wishing you had gone ahead and got the other model for a few dollars more. It's like buying a 3.5 hp lawn mower and then wishing you had spent the extra $50 for a 5 hp with electric start. Now what are you going to do with the 3.5 hp?

REX

[Anonymous]

Ah. But the fancy locomotive might not be there tomorrow because it is a limited edition.

[RMax1]

Seems like a great move on Bachmans part. I for one have been thinking about DCC for over a year and not made the pludge for several reasons. Cost and understanding are the main reasons. With this system I can play with it and try DCC. If I out grow it , I'll move it to a smaller layout I want to build. Everything is going to DCC on the market so this gives an affordable way of seeing if I want to stay with the hobby.

RMax

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea

Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost

But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)]

[Anonymous]

I voted, like the majority so far, as being a sole operator with less than 10 locos which I interpret as being in operation at one time, though in fact, is about the number I picture sitting on my moderate sized home layout at one time. I only picture two or three operating at the same time, and then only occasionaly.

This isn't necessarily a vote in favor of Bachmann over MRC or Digitrax or NCE but I think I'll try this system since I have simple needs and and it appears to offer everything I currently need. It looks like an easy intro into DCC for a moderate sized but simple home layout. (It still hasn't been made clear why the size of the layout as opposed to it's complexity is a factor.)

If I were running a club layout with more than 10 operators, I wouldn't buy it.
If I needed more features than it offers, I wouldn't buy it.
If I needed more power than it offers, I wouldn't buy it.
If I needed to roam around further than it's tether restricts me I wouldn't buy it
If I thought I wouldn't be able to resell it after trying it and outgrowing it, I wouldn't buy it.
If I drove a Lexus instead of a Dodge, I probably wouldn't buy it but not for any logical reason.

What I won't do is not consider it based on reasons that don't apply to my situation offered by those who haven't tried it. If and when I'm not happy about my decision, I'll report back. :)

Wayne

[Anonymous]

This 1 amp thing seems to be a major down check for the Bachmann system. I can live with the others, I think. I do have a question. I've noticed that several of the other systems have numerous boosters or different power supplies ie: 5, 8 and 10 amp. What exactly is that for? Tony's website discusses placing a booster between the command center and the layout. Can this be done with the Bachmann?

[jfugate]

On my HO Siskiyou Line I have from 6-12 operators at a time, and we have from 4-6 trains active at a time, some with helper crews, and loco lashups of 2-4 locos. We use 2 person crews, plus a helper crew if helpers are involved.

Multiply that all out and you can have 25-50 locos active on the layout at a time, with at least 12 loco consists active. Also there are 1-2 switchers active in each of the two main yards, which means another 4 loco consists, for at least 16.

Each loco lashup probably draws up to an amp, so there could be 16 amps total feeding the layout at a given time.

However, to keep the likelihood of welding something to the rails low, I believe in lots of low amp train blocks. I prefer boosters in the 3 amp range, and just bust the layout up more so the likelihood of any one train block having a lot of locos in it drawing amps is low.

For a small layout, the Bachman DCC unit might work, but not on the Siskiyou Line. For me features matter most, which is why I went with EasyDCC wireless.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea

Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost

But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)]

I don't think that's what anyone's trying to say. No, what is being said is more like the idea of building a small layout first, but one that has room to add on once you have the time/skill/money to do so. See for example Tony Koester's sidebar in MRP 2004 in the article on the 4x8 S scale layout.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

This 1 amp thing seems to be a major down check for the Bachmann system. I can live with the others, I think. I do have a question. I've noticed that several of the other systems have numerous boosters or different power supplies ie: 5, 8 and 10 amp. What exactly is that for? Tony's website discusses placing a booster between the command center and the layout. Can this be done with the Bachmann?

Boosters are basically add-on DCC power supplies for your track. They let you divide your layout into multiple power districts so you can run more locos at the same time. For example, say you have a very busy yard with trains coming and going and a switcher or two moving cars around and a roundhouse with locos idling away -- that could easily draw most if not all of your available power, leaving nothing to run trains on the mainline, let alone at another yard at the other end of the line. But if you put a booster on the yard, connected to the command station via whatever command link the particular vendor uses, and keep the command station/booster on the mainline, you now have more power to operate trains in both places.

Whether you can add boosters to the Bachmann DCC or not is an unknown at this point, though I suspect not from what little I've read about it in their ad in the November MR.

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea

Unless a person is only looking at a layout as a novelty, I think it's a mistake to purchase a system that cannot be power expanded or have the capabilities that you may want in the future--regardless of cost

But could one not make the same argument that one should skip the small, "starter" layout and begin at once building a large, complex layout? [:)]

I don't think that's what anyone's trying to say. No, what is being said is more like the idea of building a small layout first, but one that has room to add on once you have the time/skill/money to do so. See for example Tony Koester's sidebar in MRP 2004 in the article on the 4x8 S scale layout.

rrinker
Yes, that is correct.
If at all possible, don't back yourself in a corner with no where to go. Model Railroading is a life long hobby that is endless in possibilities. That very difinitely applys to track layout size and operations. If you envision that one day you will be able to have more, better, or bigger, then you should grin and bear the pain until you can have a basic control system that will have the capabilities to grow with your layout. The difference in price isn't that great, but the difference in performance and operational capabilities are.

dkelly
How right you are about the fancy loco not being there tomorrow[:(]. It didn't take me long to learn that in this hobby you eat while the food is hot because there won't be anything left later.[:D]

[Anonymous]

rexhea,

I hate limited edition locomotives. It makes it very difficult to plan my hobby budget in advance. Every time I think I've gotten a plan in place either a manufacturer comes out with something new that I don't want to miss, or I find something on ebay that I have missed previously and there goes my monthly budget!

That is what makes the Bachmann system very attractive. But, if what joe says is correct (and I think he is), I'll probably be looking at either Digitrax or Lenz (MRC Advanced Prodigy might make the finalists also). Too bad there isn't a way to upgrade the thing or at least up the power to the tracks.

[rexhea]

dkelly,
The first thing I bought, before I put up the first board on the benchwork, was a DCC system. I did a careful reseach and chose Digitrax over other very good systems. I learned from years experience in other things that "if you don't have a solid foundation, your building will eventually crumble". In other words, one day you will run out of capability to run your loco's like you want. Then it won't matter how many or how fancy of locomotives you have, they will either sit like a collector's roster or you will be unhappy with their performance. Then you end up spending more money on another system and setting up again. Just look at your power system as the heart of your entire layout. If it's weak, then your layout will be too.

I know all about the temptations of a new release or limited issue. I wasn't going to buy any more loco's for a few months then: there was the BLI E7's, then the Atlas Gold SD24's and away I go. But, would you believe I am still waiting for them to ship. D....n ! I sure get frustrated with these so called release dates.[:(]

What ever direction you choose, Happy Railroading!

REX

[Anonymous]

The original MRC Prodigy (not the new Prodigy Advanced) just had the dial to sleect 1 of 16 locos. On systems like that, you have to remember somehow that 4-6-0 #1843 is #5 ont he controller, and 2-4-0 #3281 is number 9, etc. I'm sorry, this does NOT make it easier for beginners.

I'm a beginner. I have two locos right now, looking at a third. I have enough brain cells left from adolescence to remember that the BL2 is number 1. The SW1200 is number 2. The Mikado is number 3. I'm nowhere near the point of worrying about identifying engines by road number.
And when things get really hairy, there's always pen and paper ( costs almost a dollar) to make a little chart I can reference when the cobwebs are clogging my memory.
Yes, I see your point, but it's not a problem right now.

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Joe

No Problem. I have run my large scale layout with 3 10 amp power stations (bosters) using the EZ COmmand system. The NMRA specifies two types or power stations (see RP-9.1.2). They are called the Opto-isolated (Current) Interface which is specified to handle input voltages of 22 volts and the Driver/Receiver (Voltage) Interface which is specified to handle an imput voltage of 12 volts.

If you wi***o use additional power stations with the EZ Command I recommend the opto issolated type.

Stan Ames

• Reply

I don't fit specifically into any of your catagories as they are presented. I have a small layout, operate alone but have about 30 locomotives, in various stages of completion, although they'll never all be on the layout at one time. Dan

[Anonymous]

Well Don, there is nothing to REREAD!!! I haven't seen anything, much less READ anything except what's on this site. I still haven't received my MRR November issue that many of you seem to have already, I haven't seen ANY ads, Bachmann's site doesn't say very much, and a LHS with ANY selection of anything isn't near me. I know very little about DCC. I am trying to find out about this system so I can make an informed choice when I purchase a system. Many responses on this forum to varying questions always seem to be "what I have is best, and the rest is junk", and the infamous "you get what you pay for" line of bs. Nobody ever seems to be able to admit they chose wrong, or made a bad decision. If everyone has "the best", then I have to ASSume they are all the same, right? Kind of like the old Chevy/Ford debate, neither one right, neither one wrong.

Also, DON, you ASSume I want some "friends" over to run trains. That is not the case. My layout is for ME. No photos, no viewings, just for me. I don't care what other people have to say about it, pro or con. It is 100% self satisfaction. i don't need to impress anyone but myself.

[rexhea]

enduringexp,

If I may recommend, call Tony's Train Exchange at 1-800-978-3472 and speak to Tony or Ken. These two guys not only sell all DCC products, but they also work on them. Tell them what your plans are for the layout and get their advise (I do this all the time). They are always willing to help and they have an excellent reputation. This way you don't have to sort through all this. Bottom line: "If the shoe fits....." )

REX

[Anonymous]

Rex,

Tony's also has a very informative website, filled with reviews, comparison charts, tips etc etc. While I have not dealt with them directly, their website seems to take a very objective approach, not favoring any one system over another. Are they the same "live"?

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

Rex,

Tony's also has a very informative website, filled with reviews, comparison charts, tips etc etc. While I have not dealt with them directly, their website seems to take a very objective approach, not favoring any one system over another. Are they the same "live"?

Yes, they use the same objectivity when you talk to them. It is very hard (almost imposible) to get them to recommend any manufacturer over the other, but they will give you enough criteria that match your needs so that you can make an informed decision. If a person is not DCC literate, they will patiently explain in layman terms.

I highly recommend talking to them in person about decisions/problems instead of an email. So much more can be understood.

The Best, REX [:)]

[Anonymous]

Rex,

Thanks for the info. Come time that I decide to go the DCC route it looks like Tony's will get my money regardless if I could get the same thing elsewhere for a couple of bucks cheaper. I have learned so much from their website (as well as in this forum) that they deserve the business. Wouldn't it be great if everyone did business that way?

[Anonymous]

I have looked at Tony's site and downloaded their DCC for Beginners (that's me!!) and after reading some of the other guys input on power and such, have decided the Bachmann system is not for me. I am now leaning towards the Digitrax Zephyr, which may offer me a good compromise between features and affordability. I still haven't ruled out the Crest HO Train Engineer, but few people or shops seem to know much about it. It's one thing to spend $53 and be sorry, but it's another thing at $150.

[Don Gibson]

ENDURING: Let's examine what you said:

QUOTE: The Bachmann DCC "Myth"?
Some of the responses to the "Has anyone tried the new Bachmann DCC" thread seem to try to belittle it claiming "limited loco use". Apparently it can control 10 locos or consists at once. So, my question is, how many operators do you use on a regular basis and how many locos or consists do you run at once?
I am guessing that most people that have "home based" layouts will probably fit category 3, but hey, tell me I am wrong, OK?
Oh, I forgot. No flame wars, OK? I am not trying to judge

Sound correct?

OK
1) NO ONE has tried the Bachmann DCC. (It isn't out yet).
(2) Their AD is not very specific. I have read it.
(3) CONTROLLING "10 locos at once" is highly speculative, and (with 1 amp) unlikely.

QUOTE: "DON, you ASSume I want some "friends" over to run trains. That is not the case".

(4)NO assumption. I said "IF" you wanted to have someone over..... you' ll need a 2nd unit . It stands.

QUOTE: My layout is for ME. No photos, no viewings, just for me. I don't care what other people have to say about it, pro or con. It is 100% self satisfaction. i don't need to impress anyone but myself.

1. I didn't say it was junk. 2.I believe I (and others) were fair. On the above "100% self-satisfaction" basis ( with the Bachmann system) I think you may be emminantly qualified .

[Anonymous]

I can't believe two grown men are getting this upset over a post about a DCC system. Can we please dispense with the [censored] and get over it?

[Anonymous]

Could someone please post a link or two to someone who actually has these in stock for sale. I went to Wholesale trains and couldn't find it. I asked my LHS who is a Bachmann Dealer though a samll one and He said it is not shipping yet. For $70 or less it will be on my Christmas want list. A lot more fun than a sweater I don't need. Dave