Santa Fe' wagons help

[stefanuccio]

Hi All

I am not very experienced when it cames to American trains therefore I would love some guidance in the process of operating trains and theyr consists

I like very much ATSF and I have a few zebra stripes locomotive like GP-7 FM and S-4 but iam somewhat not sure on which wagons [of the ATSF] would be matching this locomotives and which make you raccomand to start forming or switching some consist ?

I would love some guidance if possible

thanks in advance

stefano

[mobilman44]

Hi,

The Santa Fe quit the zebra stripe scheme in or about 1959.  But, an awful lot of locos retained the paint scheme for a number of years after.  Your best guide as to what cars (wagons) fit with them is to check the build year on those cars/wagons.   I would say anything after 1965 was highly unlikely of getting pulled by a zebra striped loco.   Of course, I am sure there were plenty of exceptions.

 

[cowman]

I'll agree with the above that car build dates would be your best indicator.  He seems to know when the paint scheme was used, I  have no clue.  I'd say any thing built in the 40's through the 50's would be fine.  Some types of cars in that era could have come from the 30's and even earlier. 

As for what roads your cars/wagons can come from, most any.  Cars move from one road to another to deliver loads.  Granted, cars from the home road and near by roads would be dominant, but if you see one you like from a distant road, it would not be out of place. 

The type of wagon you will want the most of will depend on what you have for industries and businesses along your railroad.  Again, if you see a car you think is neat, it can be just passing through and only stop in the yard/transfer to the next train that will take it along toward it's destination, somewhere off layout.

Box cars:  many uses.

Coal hoppers:  mine, power plant, local coal dealer or large industry using coal for heat and power.

Gondolas:  scrap loads, power poles, rails, ties, lumber.

Flats:  equipment, poles, crated goods.

Grain hoppers:  elevators or feed mills

Just to name a few.

Good luck,

Richard

[stefanuccio]

thanks Mobilmen for your reply

I forgot to add that I am specifically need guidance for  ATSF boxcars in general that could match the zebra striped ATSF locomotives

can anybody indicate to me which would be compatible with the time period of the late 1950s ? keeping in mind that Athearn and Atlas are available to me

thanks very much

[leighant]

From late 1940s into 1960s, you had a lot of 40 foot steel boxcars with 10 or 12 panels on each side, riveted seams, roofwalks... 

But there were still a handful of wood\sided cars with steel underframes and steel outside bracing  in service.

 

By 1950, Santa Fe also had PS-1 boxcars with welded seams.  By the mid 1950s, more and more were 50 feet long. and some had plug doors instead of sliding doors.  Generally they kept this brown color and the small black and white herald about 3 feet square.

Just before 1960, Santa Fe started using a bright red called "Indian Red" for specially equipped boxcars, and the herald turned into a circle 8 feet high with a cross inside it.  These were a minority at first but became the standard color for new Santa Fe cars in the 1960s.  Boxcars had roofwalks until the late 1960s.

I have been describing just boxcars and just Santa Fe.  Of course, Santa Fe pulled freight cars from other railroads, often more "foreign" cars in a train than home road cars, and often many sorts of cars.

[mobilman44]

Hi,

All good info so far................

May I add....   The Santa Fe especially ran "reefer trains".   These were refrigerator cars, cooled by ice loaded in 4 rooftop hatches.   The Santa Fe ran long trains of these orange/yellow cars to/from California, caring fruits and vegetables from California to ultimately Chicago and cities in-between. 

Assuming your time period is the 1950s or earlier, most boxcars were "boxcar red", which refers to a multitude of shades of red-brown.   This was because the pigment for this color was cheap and worked well.

Coal hoppers, stock cars, gondolas, etc., were often the same boxcar red, but could be black as well.

For diesel locomotives of that era, switcher engines or some short haul road engines had the zebra striped paint scheme.  But the "covered wagons", the F units, had blue/yellow for freight hauling and of course the beautiful warbonnet scheme of red/silver for passenger trains.  Note that some of the red/silver locos were converted (gear changes) to haul freight as well.

Mobilman44

 

[zstripe]

Also,it was not uncommon,to see,Pacific Fruit Express,reefers,at the head end of a passenger train,headed to Chicago..

Cheers,

Frank

[dehusman]

stefanuccio

I forgot to add that I am specifically need guidance for  ATSF boxcars in general that could match the zebra striped ATSF locomotives

Just so you understand, US railroads don't normally operate trains (except coal and grain trains) of all home road cars.  99% f the time a ATSF GP would be hauling a train that had cars from any railroad in the US.

If the boxcar doesn't have a roofwalk, its too new.  If the boxcar has a pair of black rectangles with a white border on the lower right side (consolidated stencil) its too new.  If the boxcar is over 50 ft long its probably too new.

[stefanuccio]

hi all

thank you everyone for the excellent tips please see if you can help me with this 2 questions 

1-I have few cars of the A.T.S.F. from Athearn  ATH 70038  this are boxcars of the type BX 7 with the side number 146454 the CHIEF famous daily streamliner WEST there seem to be a date on the side saying NEW-41 have also a square ATSF logo and a map on the other side and a royal break f regulator writing as well

2-I also have few cars of the ATSF from Athearn  they lettered as SANTA FE' with big round logo in a cross and the slogan SHIP AND TRAVEL SANTA FE ALL THE WAY this seems to be a boxcar of the type Fe 26' with 2 doorson each side on the marings is also written TS 9-69 and few small crosses at the bottom of the side

 

all I would like to know is if this 40' boxcars in this format

 are  suitables for the very late 1950's [1958-59] very early 1960's ?

thanks very much for your guidance

[mobilman44]

All of those cars would work for the 1960s.  The ones with the round logo with the cross were the 60s and later.  The others would work for 40s thru 60s.

Again, check on the sides of the car for the build date, often a two digit month and the last two digits of the year.  In example Bld 0944 would mean the car was built in September 1944.

[stefanuccio]

Hi Mobilman

thanks very much indeed for your reply and tips

In the case of the Boxcars Fe-26

This cars have double plug doors have also a sign on the doors saying 'return this car to Barstow when empty'and have been lettering with a date  as such TS 9-69 what does this mean ?

Is it a revision or rebuilt date ?

If where updated in 1969 could you have find this cars in this format from the late 1950' to early [or in this case late 1960s] ? so what I am asking could this cars still go well for the period I am trying to model that is 1958-1965 ?

thanks for your much appreciated guidance

stefano

[mobilman44]

Hi, the "TS69" is a rebuild date of some kind - 1969. 

Look for a build date, which of course would be earlier than the rebuild.  

What I have done with cars like this (if it makes sense) is to wipe out the later date.   If that rebuild date applies to something mechanical (which would be transparent to a modeler), then I'm OK doing this.

If its cosmetic rebuild, like new paint/lettering, then I should leave it alone.

But you know what, as your 1958-1965 time frame is so close to the 1969, I doubt anyone will notice or care - so do what feels right for you.  

[cv_acr]

mobilman44

Hi, the "TS69" is a rebuild date of some kind - 1969. 

The "TS 6-69" is a re-weigh date, not necessarily a rebuild date. "TS" is the code of the shop that performed the weighing, in this case ATSF Topeka Shops.

It may have been rebuilt or repaired to require the reweighing, or not. It may have been repainted at the same time as the shopping & weighing, or not. Cars were reweighed on a regular basis. Shipping rates were based on weight so you needed to know how much the car weighed empty to figure out the weight of the load when you weigh the loaded car,

[stefanuccio]

Mobilman and Chris

thanks very much for your appreciated guidance

stefano

[Texas Zepher]

I've shared this photo a zillion times but GP7s were used on Santa Fe mixed trains too.  This is an exact model of Santa Fe train #67 from Wichita to Pratt Kansas.   There was also often a reefer in the consist.

So another proper wagon for a Zebra GP7 is a passenger combined.  Since Santa Fe used them for the caboose they were called cabbage.  Oh yeah, the Pullman green was not the normal color.  They "should" be (were normally) mineral red.   The green ones are cars that were in pools that could have been assigned to a normal passenger train.

[stefanuccio]

Hi Zepher

thanks very much for your appreciated reply with pic

where the ATSF zebra stripes GP-7 used predominantely on freight trains  ?

would one be able to see a single ATSF GP-7 on a transfer or small freight train ?                                                                      

[zstripe]

Yes,,,To both Your questions...

Cheers,

Frank

[Texas Zepher]

stefanuccio

where the ATSF zebra stripes GP-7 used predominantely on freight trains  ?

would one be able to see a single ATSF GP-7 on a transfer or small freight train ?

zstripe

Yes,,,To both Your questions...

As Frank said.  Yes and yes.  Unlike today where a railroad will always throw 2-3 units on every train "just in case one breaks down".  Back in zebra stripe days that would have been considered a huge waste of motive power.  A single GP7 (no dash by the way) was common.  I know at least for certain times single GPs covered the Bristol branch, the Elizabeth Branch, the Pratt Branch (per my picture), the Shelby Branch, the Lindsey branch, and probably at least 10 more I don't know of.  The Enid OK branch (from Kiowa KS) ran 2. 

edit - ooops not Shelby Branch,  Shawnee Branch.   sorry.

[zstripe]

TZ,

I have a question for you,,,the GP7 in your pic,is that a Atlas or a P2K? I ask because,I have two,ZStripe,P2Ks and the numbers are,2681 and 2678,other than that they are identical. Mine are at least 10yrs old. I thought they only made two numbers,,,but I could be wrong..

Cheers,

Frank

[stefanuccio]

thanks very much indeed for the nice guidance ,pics and tips

regards to all

stefano

[Texas Zepher]

zstripe

I have a question for you,,,the GP7 in your pic,is that a Atlas or a P2K? I ask because,I have two,ZStripe,P2Ks and the numbers are,2681 and 2678,other than that they are identical. Mine are at least 10yrs old. I thought they only made two numbers.

You know I don't know.  They are not in my inventory list.  I do have Proto-2000 GP7s #2789 and #2792 both with dynamic brakes that I bought in 2008. 

I take that back.  I found it (well I found it in my inventory list), it is a Proto-2000.  I got it off eBay November 2007.   I have its sister #2566 also, that I apparently got from Train World in September of 2003..