By 1970, many railroads had surplus diesel passenger locomotives as the companies withdrew from the passenger business and Amtrak was being created. This photo is an example, and it shows an Burlington Route E7 working with a GP40 to haul freight. It is 1970, and the E7 will soon be traded in on a new Burlington Northern SD45. The photo appears in "Burlington Route Color Photos", a book compiled by Alfred J J Hill.
There were many examples of other CB&Q E-units hauling freight trains. Burlington's subsidiary, Colorado & Southern was hauling freight trains with six E5 units MU'ed together. Those E5's were traded in to EMD for SD40's. I wonder if any other forum members are familiar with passenger locomotives hauling freight. This can include steam locomotives, too. I recall seeing pictures of passenger steam locomotives such as 4-6-2's hauling freight trains as they ended their years of service. Please feel free to identify other examples. Post photos if you wish to do so. Meanwhile, I am not about to add extreme weathering to my Burlington E7's. I like the way they look when they are new. Burlington kept its E units clean in the early 1960's which is my era.
There were many examples of other CB&Q E-units hauling freight trains. Burlington's subsidiary, Colorado & Southern was hauling freight trains with six E5 units MU'ed together. Those E5's were traded in to EMD for SD40's.
I wonder if any other forum members are familiar with passenger locomotives hauling freight. This can include steam locomotives, too. I recall seeing pictures of passenger steam locomotives such as 4-6-2's hauling freight trains as they ended their years of service.
Please feel free to identify other examples. Post photos if you wish to do so.
Meanwhile, I am not about to add extreme weathering to my Burlington E7's. I like the way they look when they are new. Burlington kept its E units clean in the early 1960's which is my era.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
I know GO Transit and VIA Rail units hauled freight once in awhile. I've seen pictures but never in person.
This was quite common. Atlantic Coast Line regularly assigned Pacfics to freight trains as a matter of course and not due to any kind of downgrade. There are pics in several of John Signor's SP books of Pacifics in freight servicel and even in freight helper service. If that doesn't do it for you, there's a pc in Lucius Beebe's The Central Pacific & The Southern Pacific Railroads of an SP A-6 4-4-2 being used as a pusher.on a freight train. Then, again, SP also was known to have assigned 2-10-2's and 4-10-2's to passenger trains in montainous terrain and not just as helpers. Both the SP and UP used 2-8-2's in mountain passenger service prior to the delivery of 4-8-2's in the early 20's and both roads had no qualms about assigning articulated power to passenger trains as well as freight trains.
Edit: I've also seen pics of ATSF 1226 class light Pacifics on freight trains in the San Joaquin Valley of California. For those not famiiar with the San Joaquin Valley, it's so flat it makes most of the Midwest look like helper territory in comparison.
Andre
Santa Fe didn't wait until the end to do it:
When motive power was in short supply, they assigned even perfect A-B-A sets of E units to freight trains (photo in Steve Goen book, Santa Fe in the Lone Star State, Volume 1).
Additionally, they used Alco PA's in freight service as well--a photo in the aforementioned book shows two dusty PA-1's in front of a cut of stock cars somewhere in Texas.
Late in the 1960's Santa Fe did run out the last miles of Alco PA's on hot reefer blocks out of Southern California.
Also--Erie Lackawanna regeared their Alco PA's for freight service and used them in fast freight service for several years.
Pennsylvania Railroad also repainted PA's into the freight colors and used them in freight service--just not for very long.
The use of passenger units in freight service was much more common than people think.
New Haven used Alco DL-109's on passenger trains by day and freight trains at night, and they evidently performed in a satisfactory manner in this dual-mode service.
John
Quite a few of the BN F-units started out as passeneger units... Some puller BN passenger trains for about a year until amtrak took over, they kept some and made them freight units.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
yeah steam generators were pulled and placed into freight service on the BN F's.
I know that my E units will help with freight service on my model railroad.
Edit: the BN exec. F9's even pulled freight. they were "essentially GP38-2's."
second edit: Garry, you've given me a great idea. who wants to see a 5 unit train 1 CB&Q E5A, 4 Alcos (2 GN, 2 SP&S)?
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Heartland Division CB&Q, Colorado & Southern was hauling freight trains with six E5 units MU'ed together. Those E5's were traded in to EMD for SD40's.
UP 4-12-2Santa Fe didn't wait until the end to do it:
Burlington Northern #24who wants to see a 5 unit train 1 CB&Q E5A, 4 Alcos (2 GN, 2 SP&S)?
Texas Zepher Burlington Northern #24who wants to see a 5 unit train 1 CB&Q E5A, 4 Alcos (2 GN, 2 SP&S)?I am not certain an E5 could be MUed to the Alco FAs or many other loco's for that matter (at least not in real life). That is why the C&S tried to run them as an independent set of power.
How about a pair of E9A's paired with an F7 and SD40?
Can electrics be included? Like PRR P5a and GG1?
DSO17 Can electrics be included? Like PRR P5a and GG1?
The UP leased AMTK F40's for freight service back in the 1990's when they were strapped for power. They were terrible freight engines. They were geared too high, hard to get on and off, had itty bittty fuel tanks and non-alignment drawbars. Originally they were planned for intermodal service but didn't have the fuel range to make it between regular fueling stations, so ended up in Texas hauling rock trains.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Burlington Northern #24How about a pair of E9A's paired with an F7 and SD40?
Texas Zepher DSO17 Can electrics be included? Like PRR P5a and GG1? I would think so. Was the GG1 really considered a "passenger" locomotive. I thought it was dual purpose from the beginning.
As fewer GG1s were needed for passenger some of them were used in freight, but they were designed as passenger power. Even in their old age in the late 1970s, if given the railroad, nothing would get a freight train over the road like a pair of good GG1s.
Texas Zepher Burlington Northern #24How about a pair of E9A's paired with an F7 and SD40?Sounds much more realistic to me. I know E9s, F7s, and SD40s came in several different gear ratios, so they could easily have been "matched".
ONR FAN I know GO Transit and VIA Rail units hauled freight once in awhile. I've seen pictures but never in person.
Back in the 90s, several VIA F40PH-2ds were leased to CP Rail for freight service in Ontario. There are several videos of these on Youtube, including some interesting mixes with CP MLWs.
Here's one compilation video, and the others should be easy to find from here:
watch?v=5JtSrA4GAPE
I know some GO units were used in freight service from time to time too, including the GP40-2Ws that would eventually be sold to CN.
-Tim
The D&H threw their PA's into freight service for a while as well
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
How about the N&W Jclass 4-8-4? I thought they looked kinda cool with a "doghouse" on the tender and a black water canteen. Sorry fate for the beautiful "J"!
Mike C.
THaymanBack in the 90s, several VIA F40PH-2ds were leased to CP Rail for freight service in Ontario.
The Baldwin Centipedes were bought for the named passenger trains but found too unreliable and for the rest of their lives were downgraded to freight and even pusher service on the PRR. They were semi permanently coupled in pairs of 6000 HP to start and downgraded to 5000 HP for freight service.
How about going the other way? Freight locos pulling passenger trains such as the PRR Baldwin switchers used in commuter train service?
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Texas Zepher THaymanBack in the 90s, several VIA F40PH-2ds were leased to CP Rail for freight service in Ontario.Oh yeah. Didn't the Santa Fe buy back all the FP45's from Amtrack and F45s from BN to use in freight service for the super fleet?
Not exactly: I don't think they even so much as leased the FP45's to Amtrak, because they knew they were fine engines, and they kept them for high speed freight service on The Super C (the world's fastest freight train, which was allowed 90 mph running). The F45's--Santa Fe owned 40 of their own--they didn't need to buy any from BN.
Some F units were leased to Amtrak, but Amtrak also did not like the yellow warbonnet paint scheme Santa Fe applied, and returned the 2 A units and 1 B unit so painted after only limited use. Ralph Back has a website containing the facts.
When you see Santa Fe FP45's on Amtrak trains, it is generally because the Amtrak owned motive power failed and they needed help to move the train--not because Santa Fe leased them out. They were first rate motive power and ATSF was not that stupid--they let them have some worn out F units.
Speaking of the Fe...wouldn't the ex Amtrak SDP40Fs that went to Santa Fe and rebuilt to SDF40-2s qualify as a PAX unit demoted to Freight...in this case I think the unit was "promoted" to freight
In the late 60s, Seaboard Coast Line used E-units in some of their high speed freight runs, often when crunched for power.
There 18 SDP40Fs traded to Santa Fe. Although still argued, there have been FRA folks that were convinced that the twin boilers on skids and tall water tanks (when full) were the primary culprits of their problems on Amtrak. Once the 18 units were modified and placed into Santa Fe's high speed runs, they proved reliable until their retirement.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
The Bangor & Aroostook had 2 E-7A and 8 F-3A units in their fleet that were primarily used for passenger service from the late 1940's thru the 1950's. The BAR discontinued all passenger service in 1961. All 10 of these units were then re-geared for freight service & re-painted in the BAR's new solid blue color. The two E-7A's served until 1967, when they were traded to EMD. Of the 8 F-3A units, 2 were traded to EMD in 1967, 4 served in the BAR freight fleet until they were scrapped in 1984 & the other 2 are currently undergoing restoration in railroad museums.
Here's BAR #10 E-7A in her 1950's passenger service colors:
Same loco after being re-geared for freight & repainted in post 1961 solid blue scheme:
"I could never belong to any club that would have me as a member."
Some New York Central Hudsons ended their working lives on freight, and by accounts I read did quite well. NYC had some 4-6-2 Pacifics that had been built for use in freight service.
Thanks for all the comments and especially thanks for the photos.
Another example, the Burlington power on the original California Zephryr was an F3 ABA set in silver passenger colors. The CB&Q replaced them with E-units in only a few years. For a brief period each 3-unit set hauled freight trains without modification. Soon after that, they were converted to freight locomotives. The units had their steam generators removed, and the gear ratios were changed. They were then painted in the Burlington freight scheme called "graybacks".
locoi1sa How about going the other way? Freight locos pulling passenger trains such as the PRR Baldwin switchers used in commuter train service?
I have a suspicion that this has been a much more common practice over the year, especially in the days that railways ran both passenger and freight services. CN, for example, used RS18s in both freight and passenger service, although in passenger service they had to be paired with a steam generator.
In more modern times, I know both Amtrak and VIA occasionally require freight locos to step in as rescue units. Take for example VIA trains 14/15 the Ocean between Montreal and Halifax. VIA only has extra equipment and facilities in Montreal, so if there are locomotive problems while in Halifax, the return trip may need to borrow CN power. I've seen photos and videos of various CN units pulled into service on that run, including GP9s, GP38-2s, and more recently, an SD70M-2.
Here's a video of the Ocean with a GP38-2 borrowed lead unit (at about 3:00):
watch?v=8vFqfUOiGHI
sh00flySpeaking of the Fe...wouldn't the ex Amtrak SDP40Fs that went to Santa Fe and rebuilt to SDF40-2s qualify as a PAX unit demoted to Freight...