Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Kadee Problem.

8485 views
59 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Kadee Problem.
Posted by NP2626 on Friday, May 3, 2013 8:28 PM

Once in a while I have a Kadee coupler that will act up.  What is happening is, when I back the train up; or stop too quickly, the coupler will lock in the open position and the small coil spring can't seem to overcome the drag in the action to close the knuckle again.  Most of the time, I have applied a small dusting of graphite powder into the joint between the body of the coupler and the knuckle, worked the action vigorously and this has fixed the problem.  Now, I have one in particular which does not seem to loosen up.  My guess is the small pin that holds the knuckle into the coupler body and is also gland hand and pivot of the action, has corroded.  After applying the graphite, I work the action many times and can't get the coupler to stick open.  However, when I put the car back in the train and back up, the coupler will lock open once again.  I have applied graphite and done the process all over again several times, yet I am still having the problem. 

Besides replacing this problem coupler, does any one have suggestions and has anyone else had a similar problem?

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, May 3, 2013 8:36 PM

 Interesting, I've NEVER had that happen to a real Kadee coupler - even ones that have taken a nosedive to a cement floor. I DID have it happen to nearly every Proto 2000 (not the new Proto-Max - the ones back before Walthers bought Life Like) coupler that came with my various P2K locos - the knuckle james wide open and no amount of force seemed to put it back where it belonged - and that was WITHOUT rough handling - which is why I repalced every single one of them with Kadee. The worst I've had is some sticking a bit after painting, but working them back and forth a bfew times loosens them rigth back upBack in the day I used to follow the instructions to the T and use a small metal rod to burnish the moving faces of each and every coupler, but I haven't done that in years. The idea being to make sure there was no metal flash from the casting process and make sure the surfaces that slide against one another are perfectly smooth. Might be worth a try.

             --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,255 posts
Posted by tstage on Friday, May 3, 2013 8:37 PM

NP,

If it's the only coupler that's acting up on you, it may be that it's just defective.  I would just replace it and be done with it.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Friday, May 3, 2013 8:38 PM

NP2626
Besides replacing this problem coupler, does any one have suggestions and has anyone else had a similar problem?

That coupler is going to continue giving you problems. Change it out.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Friday, May 3, 2013 8:52 PM

I may end up changing it out, I was hoping someone had a fix.  This is not the first time this has happened.  It's only the first time that my standard process for repair hasn't worked.

rrinker, I can assure you this is a real Kadee # 5, my standard coupler and burnishing the face of the knuckle would have nothing to do with my problem.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, May 3, 2013 8:54 PM

Hard as it is to believe, even Kadee has a defect now and then - but I suspect their decfect rate in like 1 in 3 million.

I vote for simple replacement and disposal.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 596 posts
Posted by charlie9 on Friday, May 3, 2013 9:42 PM

i have had a couple of number 5's act that way and i was too inept or too lazy to figure out the problem so i just replaced them.  better things to do than fret over a cheap item like one coupler.

charlie

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, May 3, 2013 11:24 PM

That problem is usually caused by the top end of the "glad hand" being inserted too far into the coupler - the upper end of it has a "V"-shaped groove across the end face, the purpose of the groove being to spread the ends of the wire slightly to keep it from slipping downward.  Either there's a burr where the "V" was formed, and it's catching on the coupler head as it rotates, or the "V" hasn't spread sufficiently and the wire has slipped too far down and it's slightly-oversize diameter is causing it to bind.

Using pliers, you should be able to grasp the trip pin from below and push it up slightly, revealing more of its upper end.  Either a little clean-up work with a file to remove any burrs or slightly spreading the "V" by grasping each side, in-turn, with small pliers to increase its width should fix the problem.  Otherwise, simply replace the coupler. 

I usually save some of the trip pins from those knock-off plastic couplers which come with some rolling stock, as they will usually fit into a Kadee coupler.  To remove the troublesome pin, push it up while gripping it with pliers from below, and when enough of it is revealed, grip it from above to withdraw it completely, allowing it to follow its natural curve.  Installing the replacement is the reverse of the removal.


Wayne

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Saturday, May 4, 2013 2:42 AM

NP2626,

I know you are not going to like,what I'm going to say,,,,but the time you spent,typing the post,reading replys and so forth,,you my have been able to replace,two sets of couplers already.. Why is this happening? isn't always worth wasting your time over....Just my thought!!

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, May 4, 2013 3:34 AM

I had a KD #148 to do the same..I replaced the coupler..

The down side..

I have a odd coupler that will probably never be used.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Westchester NY
  • 1,747 posts
Posted by retsignalmtr on Saturday, May 4, 2013 5:44 AM

Are you sure it's a Kaydee coupler? I've never had one fail like that. The only problem I have with Kaydees is the knuckle springs pop out. Accumates and Mchenrys that I get on new cars both in HO and N scale are notorius for that failure especially when using a skewer to uncouple..

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:02 AM

retsignalmtr

Are you sure it's a Kaydee coupler? I've never had one fail like that. The only problem I have with Kaydees is the knuckle springs pop out. Accumates and Mchenrys that I get on new cars both in HO and N scale are notorius for that failure especially when using a skewer to uncouple..

Many, many years ago I stopped using anything but Kadees, so I'm ab-so-lutly positive it is a Kadee #5 and like I've said, this is not the first time this is happened.  The car this coupler is on, has been in use for many years without this problem.  So, this is a problem that has developed overtime and not a factory flaw.

I enjoy working on problems and attempting a fix.  Others may think it foolish of me to not just replace this coupler!  However, a part of the work I've done in my lifetime is trouble shooting mechanical equipment, so I don't just simply give-up on something. 

Thanks Wayne for your suggestion, you must be a trouble shooter, too!

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:40 AM

retsignalmtr

Are you sure it's a Kaydee coupler? I've never had one fail like that. The only problem I have with Kaydees is the knuckle springs pop out. Accumates and Mchenrys that I get on new cars both in HO and N scale are notorius for that failure especially when using a skewer to uncouple..

Contrary to popular belief KDs are not perfect..I been using KDs since '68 and had several to mechanically fail and one to break-from fatigue I suspect.You may go years without a single incident.

I lost count of the springs that flew off or became fatigue from club use and no longer worked as design..

As far as N Scale..I hate the slinky action of MT coupler and Accumates worked ok on my dining room table switching layout but,I sure enough wouldn't want to use 'em pulling long trains.

The new Walther Protomax II is a great coupler..Its all metal and looks and operates like a #5.I don't replace these couplers.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:44 AM

Call me lucky, but in my 10 years of HO scale layouts, I have never had a Kadee fail, and I use various types of Kadee couplers on all of my locos and rolling stock.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:00 AM

A possible cause of this problem, is during the summer it can get humid in my basement and this might cause a rusting of the pin, which of course is steel.  This would cause the action to be sticky.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:16 AM

zstripe

NP2626,

I know you are not going to like,what I'm going to say,,,,but the time you spent,typing the post,reading replys and so forth,,you my have been able to replace,two sets of couplers already.. Why is this happening? isn't always worth wasting your time over....Just my thought!!

Cheers,

Frank

I understand what your saying, Frank.  You look at it as a waste of my time and I look at it like it's a fun challenge.  As far as my time is concerned, as long as I'm enjoying myself, I feel it is time well spent!  

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Weymouth, Ma.
  • 5,199 posts
Posted by bogp40 on Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:20 AM

NP2626

A possible cause of this problem, is during the summer it can get humid in my basement and this might cause a rusting of the pin, which of course is steel.  This would cause the action to be sticky.

The moist conditions may be the culprit, however, I have bought used equipment that almost every metal part showed surface corrosion and the Kadee still worked. I have never had a problem w/ a #5 in over 20 years, it may be possible that you did indeed get a bad batch. Wayne notes a posible problem and the fix. If you still continue to have intermittent problems and may show it to be rusting, try a penetrating oil to lossen up the pivot. I too like to use graphite during coupler installs to burnish the shank and the knuckle head. 

Another note, not related to the binding:  I had a bulk pack some years ago that seemed to have a bit more anodise/ paint on the shank  making centering sluggish . I lightly sand the shank by rubbing it on a worm piece of wet-dry #600. It smooths ot the paint and almost burnishes the surface. Just one added step I will do for every install.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:42 AM

I have a Kadee,coupler,that sometimes,would stick open,,I tried,my normal fix and for some reason,it didn't work this time,so I replaced it. But I am curious,if anyone ever had this problem before and if you have a viable solution????

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:46 AM

Hi,

Sounds like everyone has given you sound advice, so mine will certainly be a repeat.......  Anyway........

I've had KDs since 1973.  I honestly cannot recall having a problem with them that couldn't be fixed by a little filing and/or graphite.  They typically just do not corrode but you could have dirt/ballast dust or "whatever" that got into the hinge.  I would work on it to a point, and if no clear results - throw it away.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:54 AM

MOBILMAN44,

I am not the original poster.....and don't have a coupler problem..

Cheers,zstripe

Frank

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, May 4, 2013 8:38 AM

NP2626
I understand what your saying. You look at it as a waste of my time and I look at it like it's a fun challenge. As far as my time is concerned, as long as I'm enjoying myself, I feel it is time well spent!  

It's also a good way to learn how to do new things. If you can take a coupler apart and put it back together you'll be doing something I can't do. I'm doing good just to install them.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Detroit, Michigan
  • 2,284 posts
Posted by Soo Line fan on Saturday, May 4, 2013 9:41 AM

I have seen this before. Put a drop of oil on the top of the coupler where the lever pivots. Work it back and forth a few times and see what happens.

Jim

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, May 4, 2013 9:52 AM

richhotrain

Call me lucky, but in my 10 years of HO scale layouts, I have never had a Kadee fail, and I use various types of Kadee couplers on all of my locos and rolling stock.

Rich

 
Other then a spring flying off I haven't had a mechanical fail for at least 20 years.The last fail was the coupler breaking.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Saskatchewan
  • 2,201 posts
Posted by last mountain & eastern hogger on Saturday, May 4, 2013 10:21 AM

Whistling

Well that has been a lively discussion and I agree with the suggestions that after a short period of time in trying to repair/adjust it is time to replace....

NOW, have any of you ever tried using Kadee #37s for F-units.   I was trying to get one together last evening.

I don't have trouble with other models/styles, but the spring on the 37 is impossible for my eyesight and missing fingers. Sure wondering why Kadee wouldn't  just charge an extra fee and send these #37s out assembled.   I am interested in hearing your replies as I can't see anyone` finding this easy or enjoyable.

Maybe it is just me,   But I doubt it.

Johnboy out.................................Huh?  Sad  Crying

from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North.. 

We have met the enemy,  and he is us............ (Pogo)

  • Member since
    December 2011
  • From: Northern Minnesota
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by NP2626 on Saturday, May 4, 2013 11:52 AM

Problem cured!  A small dab of Marvel's Mystery Oil on the pin and some vigorous working of the action fixed the stickiness of this coupler. 

I'm surprised at how most of you would have simply given up and replaced the coupler!  Total time invested in the two failed attempts and final repair was maybe 5 minutes.  Yes, the cost to replace would have been less than .80 cents.  However, I just don't throw in the towel at the slightest inconvenience and I find pleasure in fixing things.  I guess we truly are a throw away society!

Thanks for the suggestions Soo Line Fan and Dr. Wayne.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, May 4, 2013 12:11 PM

Well, speaking for myself, I would do all that my 40 years experience with KDs has taught me, including the graphite and light oil application.  That would take perhaps 5 minutes to satisfy me that it could be fixed or not. 

These are KDs we are talking about, and they just don't go bad - unless there is a series reason.  

Anyway, it would only take 5 minutes max for me to determine if it could come back to life or not. 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, May 4, 2013 12:41 PM

When a coupler has exhibited the same problem on more than two occasions in a given period of time, I don't care how easy the 'fix' is, it gets tossed. With all my other problems I don't need a pain in the butt coupler adding to them. One thing I don't use anymore is graphite. It invariably finds it's way to the rails and causes severe traction issues, severe enough that a Proto 2000 GP30 couldn't pull a modest consist of eight cars as the wheels were slipping so badly. That kind of stuff put me off of graphite permanently.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, May 4, 2013 12:57 PM

NP2626
I understand what your saying, Frank.  You look at it as a waste of my time and I look at it like it's a fun challenge.  As far as my time is concerned, as long as I'm enjoying myself, I feel it is time well spent!  


I agree with Mark on this.  Fixing a small problem like this may save only a small amount of money or take-up too much of your time, but what you learn from attempting the repair is wherein lies the value.  And that's true even if you end-up replacing the part. Smile, Wink & Grin


Wayne

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, May 4, 2013 3:11 PM

doctorwayne

NP2626
I understand what your saying, Frank.  You look at it as a waste of my time and I look at it like it's a fun challenge.  As far as my time is concerned, as long as I'm enjoying myself, I feel it is time well spent!  


I agree with Mark on this.  Fixing a small problem like this may save only a small amount of money or take-up too much of your time, but what you learn from attempting the repair is wherein lies the value.  And that's true even if you end-up replacing the part. Smile, Wink & Grin


Wayne

 
I agree..I wish I took the time to look at some of the problematic couplers I had instead of taking the easy way out..
 
Should this happen to me again I'll try the oil..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: North Carolina
  • 1,905 posts
Posted by csxns on Saturday, May 4, 2013 3:19 PM

Send Sam Clarke a e mail,i had a wisker scale coupler with a missing wisker and Sam sent me a replacement and a extra pair to boot,Kadee has the best couplers and CS Dept in the MR industry.

Russell

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!