Does anybody know if there were any F units in the green pine tree scheme of the NP that ever pulled freight? I once got told that they would sometimes pull freight in the 1960's after the pine tree scheme was replaced by the Loewy scheme. Any clarification on this would be appreciated.
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The Lowey scheme was used on the F passenger locos. The rest of the F units were black with yellow pine tree with red stripe trim. Sort of unsure what your asking. There was a black & yellow pine tree and a green butter knife on the side scheme that preceded the Lowey. Go to www.nprha.org, then click on "Research Library" and go down to the Joe Caron NP slide collection. You will see every N.P. F unit color scheme that there ever was.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
The two-tone green passenger scheme (Lowey) replaced the first passenger scheme in about 1955.
The earlier scheme was used on NP passenger trains from the end of WW II until 1955. For F-units, It had the "pine tree" nose design in yellow on a black background, and had green sides. Freight locos were the same except they did not have any green sides.
FP7's (NP had 2 of them) were sold by EMD as duel purpose engines (freight or passenger), but I don't know if NP used them on freight trains. Any passenger locomotive could possibly be used in freight service in certain situations.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
The NP had a couple of 'Pine Tree' variations. The first one was the freight scheme - Yellow stripes with red edging on a black car body. The passenger' engines got a two tone green/dark green/brown body with the pine tree. In the mid 50's, the NP went to the 'Lowey' scheme on their passenger trains. This was a two tone green with a white separation stripe and a white 'bow wave' on the front of the F units in passenger service. The existing F3/F7/FP7(6500/6600 series) engines were repainted into this scheme. The F9's(6700 series) were delivered in this scheme or were freight units(7000 series) that were converted to passenger service and got the usual There may have been some of the older F3 passenger engines that 'donated' their train heat boilers to the new F9's and eventually wound up in freight service. The NP was pretty fussy about renumbering/repainting units that were swapped around
Were some passenger engines ever used in freight service - Maybe. The freight F3/7/9's had 65 mph gearing and the passenger F's had 83 mph gearing - They would have been restricted on how much tonnage they could handle and the 'short time' rating of the traction motors was faster.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
hustle_muscleDoes anybody know if there were any F units in the green pine tree scheme of the NP that ever pulled freight?
I could be wrong; however, all the photos I've ever seen of the N.P.'s F units show the overall color as black, excepting the Lowey design. If the Butter Knife design is a green, it is a very-very dark green. Right now the NPRHA's website seems to be down so I can't gain access to Joe Caron's slides. Dark Green; or, Black, for modeling purposes black is the right shade of green to use.
Is this "tale" of them being green what screwed up the Blue Box Athearn kit F-7s?
Pine tree
Two tone green
Freight scheme
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
I've only heard of the top photo as the Butter Knife color scheme and although this particular photo does appear to have some green in it, it appears to have been a very bright day, which can do funny things to colors and photos. I could just as easily say that the greenish black portion of the color scheme is actually black. I need to look at more photos before I would be convinced. This is an N.P. color scheme that I have not paid much attention to, although I am modeling 1954 (pre-Lowey). I did go into the Joe Caron slide collection and looked at a couple F units with the Butter Knife paint scheme and have to say that I could find nothing decisive, I looked at the locos and yes, there might be some green to it, lookwd at the passenger cars and it looks black to me. I guess I will rely on what the people in the know have to say about it!
I agree with you on that one NP, I think that it is black.there's an F7 out here by Elbe Washington that has the freight scheme. watch?v=n8p1cMfNyns
NP2626Is this "tale" of them being green what screwed up the Blue Box Athearn kit F-7s?
Burlington Northern #24I agree with you on that one NP, I think that it is black.there's an F7 out here by Elbe Washington that has the freight scheme.
Texas Zepher Burlington Northern #24I agree with you on that one NP, I think that it is black.there's an F7 out here by Elbe Washington that has the freight scheme.That looks green to me. Contrast it to the black steam loco back over behind the station.
That is the freight version and in all the photos I have ever seen of the freight version of N.P.'s F units they are most definitely black. If you watch the video all the way through, I think you will be convinced that the loco is black
It looked black, it'd make sense to have 'em black instead of a really dark green.
I am sitting here at my desk,(large) reading and looking at the pic's..I would say that the color in question,is green...If anyone has used any, Tamiya,paint,they produce a color,they call, ''Black Green XF-27,, which to my eyes, looks to be the same color in question.. Depending upon,light source,it could appear to be black,or green...If any of you can,check it out and you will see what I'm talking about....
Cheers,
Frank
Having driven along side the Northern Pacific's tracks,along highway 10 between the twin cities and Staples, Minnesota my entire life and having seen plenty of FTs, F-3s F-7s F-9s GPs and the rest of the N.P.'s locomotive clan, being up close an touching a real live F-3, I can assure all that the main color is black.
Texas Zepher NP2626Is this "tale" of them being green what screwed up the Blue Box Athearn kit F-7s? That could be true but the Athearn NP units were way to green and could never be mistaken for black.
Yes, the color Athearn chose for their Blue Box F-7s is totally green and was totally wrong.
I believe the O.P.s question has to do with the first photo that Burlington Northern #24 shows in his first post to this thread. This is the paint scheme in question.
I still say that for our purposes, black is the right shade of green for this paint scheme.
NP2626,
I did say,,, My eye's,,, Maybe,because my eye color is ''Hazel'', I see more green,than,You???
Interesting hypothesis, my eyes are hazel, too.
hustle_muscleDoes anybody know if there were any F units in the green pine tree scheme of the NP that ever pulled freight? I once got told that they would sometimes pull freight in the 1960's after the pine tree scheme was replaced by the Loewy scheme. Any clarification on this would be appreciated
---------------
Howdy,
Well, at least your original question is answered by one of the photos Gary Duprey provided: the four unit lash up of freight units has a Lowey-colored unit in it.
It might not mean too much, but the NP guys around here refer to the pre-Lowey scheme as the "evergreen" colors. I don't know if this has any official status or is just a railfan thing, like the "phases" of diesel units.
As regards the color, always a contentious issue in this hobby, this might be a Pennsy-like situation with their "Brunswick Green". (Yes, I know, it's actually Dark Green Locomotive Enamel, but I'm using real world uasage). Lots of folks say it's merely black, but veiwed in the right light, and compared against things that truly are black like underframes, it actually has a greenish tint. Now, I understand that KCS passenger cars were supposed to be dark green as well, but even seeing them in broad daylight sunshine, they sure looked black to me. To point out how contentious color description can be, I've been told that PRR green was even darker than KCS green. I've seen both and "know" that to be nonsense, but others will swear to the opposite.
Good luck with this one.
Regards,
Benny Peters
Burlington Northern #24 Pine tree Two tone green Freight scheme
Remember there were three paint schemes - the passenger 'pine tree / butterknife', the Loewy passenger, and the freight scheme.
The middle (very faded) pic is the pre-Loewy pine tree passenger scheme - dark green (almost brown) and light green. The light green "butter knife" matches where the light green was on the passenger cars - dark green on top, light green thru the windows, dark green below.
The lower pic is the Loewy scheme. That's the scheme that used the "mignight evergreen" or however Loewy described it, not the freight scheme which had already been around for about 10 years before Loewy was brought in.
The top pic shows the freight scheme, black with dulux gold "pine tree' with a dulux stripe along the bottom of the engine body.
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0001/np5405a.jpg
WJSTIX, So, your saying that the "Midnight Evergreen" color is the top color of of the two tone green Lowey color scheme and not the overall color of the "Butter Knife"/"Pine Tree" scheme?