I bought a repaired RSD15 from BLI. When I put the unit on the track it would start then slow then speed up then slow down then speed up and would never get to full speed. I returned the unit and BLI said nothing was wrong. They replaced the unit with another and it does the same thing although this one seemed to run forward ok most of the time but not in reverse. At one point the brakes were screeching even though it was running. If I get it running forward at around 14 volts and reverse the direction, it slows and will actually run full speed in reverse. Only if I start it from 0 volts does it have an issue. I am suspecting it's a programming issue as I am running it in DC mode although it also acts a little like a BLI M1 that was having a ground problem although that one actually stopped then restarted. This one never stops, just slows. BLI never found that one either. I had to discover it through process of elimination. I'm frustrated with BLI right now as this is the 3rd unit that I have had trouble with from them and multiple returns because they couldn't find it on the first pass. Seems like they are having a real QC problem.
Joe, since you run DC, it might be simpler to forgo the sound and rewire the engine for straight DC operation. Dual-mode decoders are always a bit problematic on DC....
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
Just because I run DC doesn't mean I want to buy an engine and pay for the sound and DCC decoder and then disable it. Come on.
Is it a Paragon II model? Paragon II can be programed to stop and start at preset times, wonder if that might have been activated? Have a friend or hobby shop that could try it on DCC by chances?
Far as QC of BLI, tell me about it. But, the services department is normally top notch.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Was that the loco whose prototype was nicknamed Alco-Haulic. Maybe your loco is suffering from Alco-Haulism. Send it to Alco-Haulics Anomolous.
The newest RSD-15's only come with both sound and DCC, via a dual mode decoder, so plain DC users (like myself) have no option but to pay the extra price for the @#% DCC they don't need. In fact, I believe all the new BLI releases are the same.
For plain DC users, the decoder can be very sensitive to any track dirt at all. Did you clean your track lately?
Also, one of mine ran a bit oddly right out of the box--sort of like the original poster described--how much time is on yours? Have you run it for a couple hours--if so it should improve?
Also, in plain DC mode it is very possible that an engine might run faster in one direction than another. I have owned multiple BLI RSD-15's (from multiple product runs) that actually ran slightly faster in reverse. That is basically "normal" for them and will not adversely affect multiple unit operation. I also notice when one engine is cold and another has been running for awhile, even in the same direction, they may run at slightly differing speeds. I routinely experience the same things (varying unit speeds, between units and the same unit forward versus reverse) with Athearn and Athearn Genesis units, too. I have multiple road numbers of the same run of some Genesis diesels that all run at varying speeds.
My latest run BLI RSD-15's settled down after a reasonable break-in time and ran fine.
Also--especially for sound equipped units in plain DC mode--how far apart are your track power feed wires spaced? If you only have one pair, you can experience the sort of speed up/slow down operation described above. Consistently spaced power feeder wires are very important with sound and plain DC. The BLI decoders may find any voltage drop of about a half volt or more in your mainline.
Respectfully submitted--
John
Do you have meters on your layout. A volt meter and an ammeter are very helpful. Not one of those bench testers, a plain volt meter and ammeter on your tracks. If amps surge up there is a short, if the volts draw down when it runs and then jumps up when it stalls it indicates an open circuit.
Random opens, which is what your issue sounds like, sounds like dirty track (or dirty wheels) Just because it is new does not mean that the wheels are clean. There may be manufacturing oils on the wheels.
Other issues for a new locomotive may be that new gears may have burrs that need ground off. That happens with time.
Clean the wheels and tracks, and any other mechanical electrical connections, and then run the train for an hour or more and see if that helps.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
It is best to run any new locomotive in both forward and reverse, and at varying speeds, occasionally changing directions, for a couple hours to allow the gears, etc. to wear in properly.
Voltage is stable and no surges were evident. This is not behaving like a short. I've seen that on other units. The track is clean and the wheels look good. This is not a mechanical issue. This is mainly a directional issue though not always. This appears to be something that is being misinterpreted by the chip. I read at one point that the programming can cause something similar if the simulation for the speed is set to 0 which is default. If it is set to 1 then the system works fine. I don't have the DCC yet so I can't change it and see if that fixes the issue. I can't remember which setting is actually was but this sounds like it may be the case.
Engineer JoeVoltage is stable and no surges were evident. This is not behaving like a short. I've seen that on other units.
Well, LIONS cannot help with DCC issues, but when I suggested "voltage" I was not thinking of changes that you make in the voltage. Before I got a regulated power supply, I would notice voltage dips as more trains started. I wanted the voltage to remain at 10 volts, but the addition of a second or third locomotive dropped the voltage and speeds of trains already running.
When you open your throttle the train is moving along with it so your volt meter. But if you set your power pack to 10 volts and then put the train on it, your voltage drops. Ergo, if the train should stop and voltage goes up, then you are experiencing an "open" If your ammeter goes up, you are experiencing either an additional load, or a short.
Since you say that it is directional, I am thinking more of a mechanical issue, perhaps some thrust washers need adjustment or lubrication.
UP 4-12-2 It is best to run any new locomotive in both forward and reverse, and at varying speeds, occasionally changing directions, for a couple hours to allow the gears, etc. to wear in properly.
The OP said He bought a repaired engine,, meaning,, refurbished,,, so it must have some time on it.. Quite possibly, bought someone else's problem..
It's not a very good practice, to run a electrical motor at full volts and just reverse it and expect it to recover instantly.. What kind of transformer are you using to power the layout?? I am a strictly DC user and run DCC units on my layout,two of them being, RSD 15s mu-ed without a problem,,,
Good luck to You,,
Frank
zstripe UP 4-12-2 It is best to run any new locomotive in both forward and reverse, and at varying speeds, occasionally changing directions, for a couple hours to allow the gears, etc. to wear in properly. The OP said He bought a repaired engine,, meaning,, refurbished,,, so it must have some time on it.. Quite possibly, bought someone else's problem.. It's not a very good practice, to run a electrical motor at full volts and just reverse it and expect it to recover instantly.. What kind of transformer are you using to power the layout?? I am a strictly DC user and run DCC units on my layout,two of them being, RSD 15s mu-ed without a problem,,, Good luck to You,, Frank
You are misunderstanding what I wrote.
I would never advocate changing from forward to reverse without stopping in between. On many (but I'm sure not all) decoder equipped engines, you can't even do that--the engine will come to a full stop on its own before reversing direction. I'm pretty sure BLI has that feature built in.
Also, BLI does not palm off "somebody's problem" on the next customer--that is a horrible way of doing business. The actual reports (on their now closed forum) of people who bought factory refurbished engines were that significantly less than one in ten had a problem. I myself bought two "factory refurbished" Y-6B's that were in every way as good as brand new. One had a tiny paint chip and maybe a railing that I easily straightened--that was it for any issues.
Also BLI's website says they are factory refurbished, which means repaired, as good as new but are not new--they cannot legally be sold as "brand new" because they were in some way repaired and previously operated. That does not mean they have any time on them beyond a few minutes of test running by BLI. To assume that BLI spends a couple hours breaking in every "factory refurbished" engine they sell would be a leap, at best.
Due to the precise tolerances involved in today's locomotives, it is wise to run them at varying speeds, forward and then reverse (stopping in between) in order for things to seat properly and wear in--yes there can be small burrs or other imperfections that normally "wear-in". The better instruction manuals clearly recommend "break-in" running--but then most people don't actually read the instructions.
I also never said anything about sustained "break-in" running at full speed or full voltage, and I would not recommend that at all (though I've actually tried that on some engines that weren't quite right, and it did seem to help).
I often break-in my engines without any train at all.
P.S. There are most likely Ebay sellers who buy the factory refurbished items and then sell them as brand new. Most of the time, people would not be able to tell the difference, based upon the 4 or 5 I have personally owned that were factory refurbished.
To the OP--
In the manual there should be a way to reset factory default settings even in plain DC mode--I think using the forward/reverse switch on a power supply. You might try that to see if it helps.
As I said, I had a new latest run RSD-15 which wasn't quite right, and had some intermittent speed issues similar to what you described. I ran it--and it got better--but that doesn't necessarily mean your experience would be the same.
Try calling them on the phone and explaining the problem to a repair tech. They are normally quite helpful, in my past experience.
Best of luck.
John,
I guess i should not have quoted, anything you said. I was referring to the comment,''new''.. The rest of the text,was intended,for the OP...
Sorry
Cheers,
Relax guys. This is nothing new to me. You've all made good points but none seem to be my problem. I am a Professional Electrical Engineer so I understand all the possibilites of any standard electrical issue. This is not a mechanical binding issue or anything else mechanical. As for the sudden Forward/Reverse tactic, the decoders can handle this and are programmed to slow the engine down normally, stop, then begin the acceleration in the other direction. Nice feature and very realistic. I have been running this unit when I get a chance to get it broken in and if I keep the voltage up at 12 volts both directions are working. If I bring it up slowly then reverse can become erractic like I was describing. Even when I get it to 12 volts and hold it there reverse never comes up to full speed and slows down then accelerates, then slows down and accelerates, etc. Forward seems to be ok in general. BLI has tested this and the previous one and they find no problem. I have run many other engines on this track and they all work fine so there is definitely something about this particular loco that is weird. Again I go back to another Blog that I read about the programming but no one has shared that possibility. Also I go back to the fact that BLI repair didn't find my problem with the BLI M1 which did have a short but they couldn't find it. I did and it was fairly obvious once I decided to fix it myself.
Frank--
No worries!
Have a great day!
deleted
I think we can end this post for now. I'm thinking that this probably needs one of three things. One is more time to run. The other is to get this reprogrammed and see if one of the features can improve the operation by tweaking the settings. Lastly is to search the trucks for any sign of grounding. While I don't think this is the reason it's worth a look if the other things don't cure it. Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions. I appreciate it.
Engineer Joe;I think you are on to something here.I believe these are, well, 'Traits' of the decoders in these, & the factory settings for 'Momentum' enabled ON, & what may be an unfortunate consequence, -or- a programmed effect, that 'looks like' a sound amplifier drain on motor amperage, resulting in speed lurching.Hopefully these can be programmed out. I have a new to me RSD15 Undec, & an Undec AC6000.These are new & out of the box, (meaning Factory Defaults!), they have never seen a programming track, only a 9V Energizer to see if they would light & sound properly when unpacked.After reading this, It was time for the Test Track.I am using an MRC Tech2 DC supply with Pulse OFF.Code 83 track, polished 6-8 months ago, & rubbed clean about once a month.
Here are my Results:RSD15:the Tech2 had to be throttled up to 52-3% (on the MRC Tech 2 Dial), to energize the decoder & get lights & sound startup Sequence, (about 7 volts).Tech2 up to 68% to begin movement, (about 9-10volts), when different sounds occurred, speed would fluctuate.After about 2.5 feet the Brake Squeal Sound would engage, & loki slowed down.
AC6000:Same characteristics, for Initialization, & Movement on the trip voltages/dial settings as the RSD15.However, this machine was more tolerant to sounds (none as loud as RSD15), but it would do the brake squeal at 3 foot plus.So, I wanted to play with this, & began manually drifting the moving locomotive against the track while it was moving.When I pushed it against the direction it was traveling, it would change the sound to deceleration, not a ramp up in load, but decelorating RPMs, when freed up, it would 'free wheel' to increase RPM's.If i continued to force against it's travel longer, it would eventually engage the braking squeal while decelorating the engine RPM sounds.
As said, I think that is how these are programmed for DC operation, I belive they have the "Momentum" option enabled.I think this is a 'Trait' with this 'Momentum' setting in the DC mode.Perhaps while I am working on the detail mods, paint, & etc, I will play with some programming to see what I can do, but this will not be anytime soon.I only wanted to report what I have seen with the units in my stable & control.It may be worth playing with pushing or resisting your running model, (as it is moving), to see if it's sounds make a reaction like my AC6000 did, (which, was a purely an accidential discovery on my part.).Perhaps that is how us DC'rs test for 'Momentum' settings, I don't know??? Ha hah..Thanks,
I had read about the programming somewhere in a Blog. It was the momentum setting as you mention. I couldn't remember which one but that is the setting now that you mention it. I think it defaults to "0" but if set at "1", which isn't much of a momentum setting and shouldn't be noticable, the problem was reported to go away. In watching the operation of this unit I could tell that it wasn't anything mechanical. I've seen grounding issues and that is more abrupt in the stopping before restarting. This wasn't happening with this unit. Has to be programming. The track is clean and the wheels are clean. My next cleaning move would have been to open it up and clean the trucks completely. This didn't seem necessary because at times it would run very smoothly so I really didn't think the pickups were dirty. I am planning to move to DCC but my new layout isn't started quite yet and I am waiting until I get that layout started to but the latest DCC on the market. There are some cheaper units that can do some of the programming and I may have to try that and see if I'm right. If you can get yours reprogrammed try setting the momentum to "1" and see if that doesn't clear up the issue on your part as well. That will be my first move. I will have to try manually assisting the engine while running and see what happens. I never heard about that but it makes sense with the new controls that adjust for multiple engines. My MTH units don't automatically adjust as I have an ABA arrangement that one of the units is running too slow. I should be able to adjust once the DCC is in place.
Again thanks to all for their comments and help.