Texas Zepher fwrightI guess I'm a little different from most of the opinions in this thread. To me, having a hodge-podge of equipment with no real theme or reasoning is little different from what I did in 3 rail O for 15 years. Well I better say that just because I said it was hard to choose, does not mean I could ever be happy with a "do whatever in the world I want to do" type layout. That would make my skin crawl like finger nails on a chalk board.
fwrightI guess I'm a little different from most of the opinions in this thread. To me, having a hodge-podge of equipment with no real theme or reasoning is little different from what I did in 3 rail O for 15 years.
To me, having a hodge-podge of equipment with no real theme or reasoning is little different from what I did in 3 rail O for 15 years.
To use John Armstrong's phrase, we all have different "givens and druthers" that determine how our layouts come out. Some folks may be interested in say the history of the New York Central RR and want to buy or build accurate models of NYC equipment and buildings, but not necessarily want to be tied down to one particular year or decade. Other people might want to model "America in the 1950's" but not be that interested in where their layout is set, or what railroad's equipment is running - as long as it's correct for that period.
CSX_road_slug a good number of steam-related structures hadn't been demolished yet. I plan to build and install a Walthers concrete coaling tower to decorate my engine terminal.
What i like about where i live most of the industries been around since the 50's and havnt changed but in name as in ADM used to be Hiram walker same buildings different name. Kamatsu used to be wabco same buildig different name. So i can model form the 50;s to present. I have deisels in differnet roads for this from CB&Q to Iowa interstate.
OUR FAN
You are absolutely normal. Take your time to decide. I think that a lot os have flip flopped back and forth before our minds were made up. I myself could not decide on steam or diesel so I model the transition era. But whatever you decide, remember, HAVE FUN.
Era railroading can be fun. For my first 4 layouts, it was 100% steam. Over the next 2, I tried the very early transition era as I fell in love with the RS-1's. Never owned an F or Geep. On this, probably my last layout, (I always say that), I decided to go small and slow. Narrow gauge in the rockies. (Circa WWII) It's all steam with only 5 or so types of locos to buy, (all steam) and very little rolling stock. It offers minimal track work, 5-10 car train lengths and good switching possibilities.
Single track mains with passing sidings and 4 or 5 track yards, two stall engine houses, etc. I grew very tired of the rats nests of trackage and large yards on my early layouts. Oh, they were fun at the time, but now I long for the simplistic operation of a little road running little steamers, servicing a lot of marginal industrial and mining sidings where 35mph on the main is break neck speeds.
Good narrow gauge DCC/sound engines are very expensive ($350-$450), but are very good runners, too. You get what you pay for. Narrow gauge is a scratch builder's paradise.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
Texas ZepherWater towers are still there just not used.
TZ, there's another advantage to my era - a good number of steam-related structures hadn't been demolished yet. I plan to build and install a Walthers concrete coaling tower [minus the hopper shed and dangling chutes] to decorate my engine terminal.
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
BRAKIECSX_road_slugAs for steam locos, I never had the chance to see any of those in normal revenue service, thus I didn't get any sort of emotional attachment to them. Ken,I recall the last years of steam in revenue service and yet I never really caught steam fever.I've own 5 or 6 steamers over the years but,like you geeps and other first generation locomotives got my attention.
CSX_road_slugAs for steam locos, I never had the chance to see any of those in normal revenue service, thus I didn't get any sort of emotional attachment to them.
Ken,I recall the last years of steam in revenue service and yet I never really caught steam fever.I've own 5 or 6 steamers over the years but,like you geeps and other first generation locomotives got my attention.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Mr B & OAbout three years ago, .., got rid of all my steam, and switched my era to 1957-1964--maybe a seemingly strange range, but it takes me from the end of steam on Sand Patch grade (late 1956) to when C&O influence really started to be felt on the B&O (first pool cabooses in blue & yellow, Dec. 1964).
I settled on the B&O era 1969-1972 for a couple of reasons. First, winter 1971 was the time I got my drivers license and was able to start chasing trains. There were still a few non-Amtrak passenger trains running, and there was only enchantment blue locos with yellow trim & lettering. [I had grown up in Michigan and moved to Maryland at age 13, so the C&O really influenced me.] It wasn't until November 1972 that I first noticed Chessie-painted locos, which I thought looked garish compared to the simple elegance of the B&O/C&O scheme. But I also have the flexibility to pickup 1 or 2 factory-painted Atlas or Athearn Genesis Chessie models if I happen to find a really good deal on them.
As for steam locos, I never had the chance to see any of those in normal revenue service, thus I didn't get any sort of emotional attachment to them. I found the 1st-generation C&O geeps exciting enough!
Texas ZepherAnd finally figuring out that making realistic freelance is a whole lot harder than just following and copying a prototype.
Depends on what you want your freelance railroad to be..
Some can be as simple a one engine short line or a small regional railroad like my Columbus & Hocking Valley.
It can be a one horse switching railroad that serves a industrial park.
The hardest part for most is understanding the rhyme and reason why a railroad exists and some of that may be found under the rationalization of the railroad plant.
NP2626When I started out, I came to the hobby with a deep interest in modeling steam era and liked the idea of freelancing, as I could then use any steam locomotive I desired. As I got farther into the hobby, I determined that I was very interested in the Northern Pacific Railway and joined the Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association. This peaked my interest in N.P. locomotives and fostered an interest in 1st Gen. diesels, so I updated my equipment to the transition period, so I could have both steam and diesel. As I have gone along, over time my interest has become more prototype oriented. The above has been my case, others will have a completely different journey.
The above has been my case, others will have a completely different journey.
NP2626Lately, I have grown tired of what I feel to be the poor quality and high prices of the steam engines available today and am considering selling off most of my steamers and maybe getting a couple more 1st generation diesels.
I know the feeling..I am thinking of using my modern stuff at the club and back dating to 58-62..I've always liked Santa Fe's zebra stripe scheme and if I choose that route I will fulfill a life long "like to model" dream.
I also like West India Fruit and Navigation boxcars-the ones that have a car ferry on the side.
NP2626 Lately, I have grown tired of what I feel to be the poor quality and high prices of the steam engines available today and am considering selling off most of my steamers and maybe getting a couple more 1st generation diesels. Like most Model Railroaders, I like locomotives and "maybe" have to many.
Lately, I have grown tired of what I feel to be the poor quality and high prices of the steam engines available today and am considering selling off most of my steamers and maybe getting a couple more 1st generation diesels. Like most Model Railroaders, I like locomotives and "maybe" have to many.
About three years ago, I reached the same conclusion you have, got rid of all my steam, and switched my era to 1957-1964--maybe a seemingly strange range, but it takes me from the end of steam on Sand Patch grade (late 1956) to when C&O influence really started to be felt on the B&O (first pool cabooses in blue & yellow, Dec. 1964). I can have a full range of cab and hood units from EMD, Alco, and FM, still have substantial passenger trains, and some very interesting freight cars that were coming into service. If your layout is operations based, you won't miss the steam since the fascination is with how the trains get from point A to point B, and not what gets them there.
Greg
I've always found thinking about what I want to do and planning for it, to be an enjoyable part of the hobby. As a new Model Railroader, you will find you have a few of these types of hurdles to jump. There certainly isn't anything wrong with trying out a few different eras; or, deciding you want to do multiple eras. This would have been easier to do, back when Athearn BB diesels were less than $40.00 each; but, I think you can still explore eras with minimal expense especially when you consider the resale value of the stuff you've decided to get rid of.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
ONR FAN, at least you are beyond another trap beginners fall into. That is buying a lot of locomotives and equipment that you think looks neat, and ending up with a hodge-podge of equipment from different eras and locations that do not go realistically together at all. By wanting to model ONR or a similar railroad you have started to focus on what you really want and what can develop into a satisfying long-term modeling project. By focusing on ONR, you have tied down a geographic area that you want to model, that is a big step in itself!
You have made a good start, now think about the type of locomotives you would enjoy running. That will help focus on the timeframe you would enjoy modeling. Don't forget the tourist train idea if you can not give up on steamers.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
If you're interested in a broad period of time, you can build a layout where you can rotate the era you're modelling. I've been working on a new layout that will do that, and I've done it in the past - even wrote an article about it for RMC a long time ago. You may have to compromise a little, but it's worth it.
Otherwise, don't worry about it. If you're interested in Ontario Northland steam and diesel, then run both. Doesn't bother me, some people are more interested in a railroad or a place than in the timeframe.
On at least one occasion I read about an individual that moved his layout through several eras by changing out rolling stock and covered more than 40 years if memory serves me correctly. So if you were to do something like that you don't really have to decide and you are spared the strangeness of steam and double stacks and other such strangeness.
You're talking about Eric Brooman, whose Utah Belt was originally set in the mid-late 70's and who has "modernized" over the last 35-40 years.
Joe Fugate starts in 1980 and updates each year until 1990 and then goes back to 1980 and starts again.
Haven't seen anyone do a reverse Brooman yet (i.e. start with current era and backdate each year). Of course, it would take something like 55 years to get back to the steam era.
Andre
If the real world (aka Universe 3, Neil Armstrong) doesn't have what you want, just move your layout to another universe! Avoid Universe 1, Leslie LaCroix - they traded railroads for huge moving conveyor belts (The Roads Must Roll, R. A. Heinlein.) Universe 11 is also reputed to be pretty nasty. I personally model in Universe 13, Alfred E. Neumann - What, me worry?
Why did I move. I wanted to model a particular coal mining operation in Kyushu, but my railroad is set in Central Honshu - a place where there's never been a workable coal seam. Thanks to My Pal Al, there is now...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - sort of)
I have two eras that I am interested in and plan on eventually modeling both. 1959, Final year of steam on my freelance railroad and 1969. In the area I plan on modeling the industries are mostly still in operation in those time periods so the only changes will be some rolling stock and vehicles as well as eliminating the steamers and replacing them with more modern EMDs and ALCOs. By putting in some extra staging tracks the anachronisms for either era can be rolled off the layout and it can continue to be prototypical.
I guess I'm a little different from most of the opinions in this thread.
To me, having a hodge-podge of equipment with no real theme or reasoning is little different from what I did in 3 rail O for 15 years. When I moved back to scale modeling about 10 years ago, I wanted my layout to portray a unified, understandable theme. I wanted the the layout to represent a plausible railroad(s) in the real world. I ended up choosing coastal Oregon in 1900 - standard and narrow gauge.
The era was driven by what I wanted the layout to show and the equipment I wanted to use. I wanted to represent logging using dog hole schooners - which set constraints on how late the layout could be. I also wanted to use knuckle couplers for switching, and assume air brakes in my model operations. That pretty much constrained how early the layout could be. I wanted to avoid the financial hardships throughout the West inflicted by the Silver Crash and its aftermath in the mid-1890s.
Picking an era and region has proved to be very beneficial to my wallet. When I think about a possible acquisition of a new model, I realize that 99% of what's available is not suitable for my region and era. So in keeping with a small layout, not a whole lot of modeling time, and even less $$ with kids in college, having less than a dozen engines is a good thing. What little I have gets operated. With a small roster, and car fleet, occasionally turning over a few pieces (selling and replacing with more desirable) is fun.
just my way of having fun, yours may differ
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
That is pretty much what I do. It doesn't matter to me all that much, what trains ran where or when, on my layout. I build my scenery to mostly represent New England, because I lived in NE all my life and I know how New England looks. Era? Well that doesn't matter to me to much ether, again I grew up in the 50's & 60's, and I can remember how things looked in New England in the 50's&60's so that what I try to model to the best of my ability. As far as the trains I run on my layout? Well now, you can see almost any era, any road name, whether steam or diesel, on my layout. I know a lot of you folks will cringe reading this, but hey, I am in this hobby to enjoy myself. So while building my layout I am doing so as to please me, and not worry about pleasing someone else. I know a lot of folks build their layouts perfectly, right down to the last rivet, and that's great, I give you all a lot credit, because what you do compared to my way, is just so much harder than what I do. It's a hobby to have fun with, and I am having the time of my life.
Sam
ONR FANNow I want to model steam engines.
As to prototype -- Most Class I railroads went to diesel from steam by the end of 1957 -- Perhaps a "circa 1957" starting timeframe to go up or down?
CR&T is circa 1956 for motive power roster flexibility of steam/electric/diesel.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
When I got into the model railroading in the 1960s, brass steam engines were cheep to buy, but didn't run well without a lot of maintenance.So I sold them off and purchased Athearn diesels, they ran much better. I was in a club at the time with no home layout. When I was able to start my modular layout dering the early 1990s, I choose to model what I grew up with. . . Diesels. Proto 2000, Athearn, Atlas started producing high quality models and also in steam too. I stayed with first and early second generation diesels, operation was what I wanted on my home layout and still enjoy switching operations..
ONR FAN This has become very frustrating and confusing for me. I initially thought I wanted to model the Ontario Northland Railway which explains my user name. At an operating session last night I had the chance to play with some steam locomotives that had sound in them. These were incredible looking and one was a replica of the old steam locomotive at the CNE grounds in Toronto Ontario. I remember climbing on that as a kid. Now I want to model steam engines. I've been flopping back and forth on what to do. Is this normal when planning a Railway?
This has become very frustrating and confusing for me. I initially thought I wanted to model the Ontario Northland Railway which explains my user name. At an operating session last night I had the chance to play with some steam locomotives that had sound in them. These were incredible looking and one was a replica of the old steam locomotive at the CNE grounds in Toronto Ontario. I remember climbing on that as a kid. Now I want to model steam engines. I've been flopping back and forth on what to do. Is this normal when planning a Railway?
You do what you gotta do. If there is a piece of rolling stock you just gotta have, get it, run it, enjoy it. You can deal with anachronisms by ignoring them, or some times running modern era and some times running steam era. The buildings will look fine in any time. You can swap out the motor vehicles as required. Or you can decide that the transition era lasted longer than it did in real life. Not to worry.
If you are modeling the Ontario Northland, consider modeling the town of North Bay. The tracks come in along the water front into a compact freight yard in front of the train station. The rest of the town is neatly arranged behind the station.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Hi!
While finding an era to model (or RR or location) can be difficult for some, for others it was never a question. My first layout in the 1950s was 1950s Santa Fe, and every layout since has been of the same time and RR. There was never a serious question otherwise.
Being 68, I was (as a kid in Chicago) up close and personal with steam locos from the CN&W and IC. So my layouts have always incorporated steam (ATSF). When I was a kid, it was modern railroading, today its reliving my childhood.
You are apparently younger, and not experienced everyday steam railroading - but its attraction has gotten to you. So now you are torn......... what era to model.
My advice is to weigh the options, and to not jump one way or the other until you are fairly certain.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I just got through posting the response below, to the same question by another beginner. The thoughts seemed worth repeating:
I wonder why there is even a hint of guilt about mixing eras? Yet this does seem to be the case. Somehow; or, another, when people become interested in Model Railroading they happen upon the idea from what they read on the forums, that it is a "No-No" to mix eras. Somehow they come to this conclusion, even though they are fully aware that they are the one paying for, building and operating their Model Railroad. In essence, we are creating a fictitious world, whether we are strict prototype modelers; or, not! So, it is our right as the financier, builder and operator of our model railroads, to do as we dang well please with them.
When I started out, I came to the hobby with a deep interest in modeling steam era and liked the idea of freelancing, as I could then use any steam locomotive I desired. As I got farther into the hobby, I determined that I was very interested in the Northern Pacific Railway and joined the Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association. This peaked my interest in N.P. locomotives and fostered an interest in 1st Gen. diesels, so I updated my equipment to the transition period, so I could have both steam and diesel.
As I have gone along, over time my interest has become more prototype oriented.
The above has been my case, others will have a completely different journey. Possibly you might become interested in adhering to strict prototype, possibly you will stay totally freelanced in era and equipment. The idea is to have fun; so, don't let anyone tell you, you can't do exactly what you want to do and don't feel guilty about doing so!
Model the era that you like most and just include the steam. If you need a justification, just say on your version money was tight and the diesels had to wait. Steam was used in some parts of the world throughout the twentieth century.
Enjoy
Paul