I am reading with interest, the threads about operations but am a bit confused about the difference between staging and yard. I know the verb to stage as used in mrr but the nouns are what I am talking about.
Is the words, "staging yard" correct?
73
Bruce in the Peg
Blind BruceIs the words, "staging yard" correct?
Yes. "Staging Yards" are typically, though not always, secluded areas for storage of complete trains. Staging is not always a yard. Yards are not always staging.
Anyone interested in model operations would be well-advised to join the Operations SIG. Just 7 bucks per year (for on-line magazine delivery option). The magazine provides excellent information, references, and resources and there is a CallBoard service that allows OpSIG members to locate nearby folks whose layouts are open to guest operators.
A recent "Back to Basics" series in the OpSIG's magazine included introductory articles for those new to operations. My article in this series discussed the basics of staging and was published in the October 2012 issue.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Staging areas or yards are a groups tracks that are "off layout" that is connected to the layout but typically not visible and are used to "stage" trains during an operating session or to simply store trains not on the visible portion of the layout. These hidden area can used to make up or modify train consists by hand as well. They are also referred to as fiddle yards as well because and operator can "fiddle" with the trains that are in the yard. Tony Koester once wrote to think about your model railroad as a theatrical stage so to speak. The staging yards are like the wings of a stage they hold the cast of players waiting to appear in the show. The layout itself is the stage and the operating session is the show.
Typically the term yard refers to any group tracks on the visible layout that is used to make up and break apart trains or store cars. They are usually switched by a switch crew using a locomotive as on the real railroads. Hope this helps.
Dan Metzger
dm9538These hidden area can used to make up or modify train consists by hand as well. They are also referred to as fiddle yards as well because and operator can "fiddle" with the trains that are in the yard.
Fiddle yards are a subset of staging yards. In many cases, the operator cannot reach into hidden staging yards to make changes to train make-up. Not every staging yard is a fiddle yard. Fiddle yards would pretty much always be considered staging areas.
On my layout, this is staging:
This is Spooner yard:
Hope that helps.
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
Staging is, well, OFF STAGE! It can be a spur, a loop, a yard, or a yard on a loop.
If you model Chicago, then New York is represented by a staging yard (loop etc).
LION has no staging tracks, everything is "On Stage". There are holding tracks where OOS trains go to layup, but everybody can see them. There are service tracks where the Money Train, the Signal Dolly, the Trash Train and other "C Div." characters go to live. There are yard tracks out by Coney Island which I no longer use for lay-ups since that station is not convenient for that purpose, but the back shops are there and there are some subway cars parked there for scheduled maintenance.
I enjoyed the piece in MR about the passenger terminal. THAT would make a very interesting layout, but then once a train leaves that station (in my concept) it would disappear directly into one of the staging loops. So a lwayot of that sort would only be concerned with terminal operations.
A modest sized "City Terminal" might have six tracks serving three platforms, I would arrange for two staging loops, one on an upper level (call it the Northern Pacific) and one on the lower level (say it is shared by Santa Fe and the Burlington). In addition to those tracks you need two tracks and one platform off to the side to handle the mail cars. You need a wye, you need engine terminals, you need various car cleaning shops, and just for fun a set of C&NW push-pulls will run interference with commuter operations.
I was thinking about this, and the room to hold it would have to be at least 12, more likely 20 feet long and would need to be wide enough to accommodate wide radius turning loops.
Oh well, if some one wants to build such a thing, LION would be happy to draw plans and produce a timetable for you.
ROAR
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As mentioned above, staging is like the wings in a theater. Though this is probably most often the case, not all staging is hidden. One basement layout I have visited has no off sight staging. It is a point to point layout, with a large yard at each end. The yards are actually backed up to the same corner of the basement and there is a track through the scenic divider, so that it looks like a train is coming in from another, out of view location. (It also allows for continuous running.) Trains mostly run from one yard to the other, picking up and dropping cars, then can be broken down, made into new trains and off they go.
Have fun,
Richard
Let me add somewhat of a twist to this.
Do layouts model interchanges?
If so, how would you compare an interchange to staging or a yard?
Is an interchange multiple tracks like staging or yard?
Rich
Alton Junction
If you have room, then "out of site" staging yard(s) separate from the "on-stage" yard(s), is preferred.
But it is also very common (and often necessary) on smaller layouts for operational yards, interchange tracks and/or passing sidings to run double duty as staging.
Andy
I am lucky enough to have the space to use foreign line connections for staging. they are separate yards with yard office and other buildings as well as foreign line power and such. when things get really hairy, i revert to my Penn Central influence and "store 'em on the main" just line them up like trained pigs until you get some room in the yard.
charlie
richhotrain Let me add somewhat of a twist to this. Do layouts model interchanges? If so, how would you compare an interchange to staging or a yard? Is an interchange multiple tracks like staging or yard? Rich
Yes, interchanges are often modeled.
Think of a an interchange as the ultimate multi-purpose industry that uses all kinds of interesting equipment that none of your specific industries handle.
The extent of interchange trackage depends on the size of the interchanging railroads and their traffic. Sometimes it is nothing more than a shared siding (or even just the secondary line's track), sometimes its a whole yard. Selective compression often applies (model what you have room for).
Usually, the interchange line either ends out of sight (tunnel, underpass, around the bend, etc.) or is just cut off flush at the edge of the layout. Mirrors are sometimes used, especially in tunnels or underpasses, to enhance the illusion that the interchange line extends beyond the edge of the layout.
Now I have a question: what do most modelers do to avoid accidentally running a train (or pushing/backing cars) off the end of an interchange line that is cut off flush at the edge of a layout?
richhotrainDo layouts model interchanges?
Yes.
richhotrainIf so, how would you compare an interchange to staging or a yard?
You are mixing ideas that may or may not be related.
An interchange is a connection with another railroad, as others have noted already. That other railroad could be modeled, or it could be suggested by staging.
Staging is defined in earlier posts in this thread.
Interchange can take place in a yard, or on tracks dedicated to the interchange.
A visible active yard is typically where switching of cars or trains takes place.
richhotrainIs an interchange multiple tracks like staging or yard?
It can be. But it could also be a single track.
Have you read John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation or Tony Koester's Realistic Model Railroad Operation: How to Run Your Trains Like the Real Thing? I find that sometimes this kind of thing is easier to understand if one reads a logical explanation from a single author rather than trying to piece together disparate forum posts from people with varying perspectives and degrees of experience.
Good luck.
Modeling a prototype ROW has advantages,Rich.The ROW I model really did interchange with the Soo in Cameron, Wis.I got maps from the county and tried to model it faithfully within my constraints:
This was an in progress pic. The straight track that dissappears into the hole is my mainline. The one that bisects it at the crossing is the Soo main.The right hand curve is where the Soo drops interchange cars, the left is(was) used by my line to drop cars for them. That's all that is there. The Soo had a passing siding to the east(left). The line is now being used for Frac Sand transport, lots of hoppers and track upgrades.
bear in mind that not all interchange takes place on a designated interchange track or connection. in major gateway terminals such as Chicago, St Louis, KCMO etc. railroads often deliver cars to connecting lines by taking them to the other carrier's yard and leave them on a track directed by the yardmaster. it may or may not be a designated interchange track. the foreign line may also deliver to other carriers in the same way.
in major terminal cities, it seems that most interchange was done through an intermediate carrier like BRC, Harbor Belt, TRRA, KCT etc. etc.
On the NYC almost all of our westbound trains went directly to the Terminal Railroad Assn. at Madison or the Alton Southern at Mitchell Illinois. After the PC merger, just about everything was pre-blocked run through some going directly to the other carrier like MOP west, Frisco, SSW and the like. We still switched out one westbound and delivered cuts to GMO, CB&Q, L&N, Sou Ry. and others. The trains that went directly to connecting lines would come back across the river cab light or sometimes just the lite power would return. On trains to the TRRA and A&S the power and cab stayed there and they used them on eastbound trains they made up for us.
This is just to give you some ideas how you can use staging yards as part of your operating scheme. With all the consolidations and mergers recently, there is little interchange left today since there are not that many railroads out there anymore.
Charlie9, there's still lots of interchange - much of it with the operators who picked up all of those branch lines that the Class Is lopped off.
To try to sort out this bad hand:
richhotrain Do layouts model interchanges?
Yes. I have 3 interchanges with the PRR and one with the B&O. I had to cut back since the prototype line I am modeling actually had 6 interchanges with the PRR in 72 miles.
A yard is the physical arrangements of tracks. Yards can do many things and can have many purposes. Although my interchages at Wilmington look like a yard, I don't concieve of them as a "yard".
I know a lot of people think of an interchange as a "industry". I think of it more as a staging track. It is a connection to the rest of the world. For the most part, at an interchange, you pull the same cars out that you put in. If I spot PRR 123456 into the industry, I will expect to pull PRR 123456 out of the industry and I would expect cars to ahnge load/empty status for the most part. That's not necessarily how an interchange works. If I put a general service car (box, gon, flat) on an interchange there is a reasonable chance I will never see that car again. It is also more likely that a car delivered loaded will come back loaded (but a very slim change a car delivered empty will come back empty.)
It can be. At Wilmington the PRR and B&O interchanges each have two tracks. One track is for my railroad to deliver to the other and the other track is for the other railroad to deliver to me. That way the yard (there is a nearby switching yard) can deliver and pull from the interchanges at their leisure.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Dave, thanks for that discussion on interchanges. That helps a lot, and I appreciate the information.