every time i check their website all they are making are the genisis stuff it seems anymore everything else is sold out and when they do produce them they always produce stuff in the NS UP BN BNSF SP ATSF it seems thats all they produce anymore i have a athearn GP 38 in iowa interstate if you find one on ebay it goes for premium dollars Just my thoughts is all
Keith,
it´s not only Athearn, it´s all of the mainstream manufacturers. This is one of the pitfalls of limited batch-runs in manufacturing. Either you order early, or you might not get it.
Long gone are the times, when you could get whatever item was listed at any time.
Sir Madog it´s not only Athearn, it´s all of the mainstream manufacturers. This is one of the pitfalls of limited batch-runs in manufacturing. Either you order early, or you might not get it.
Yeah,that's the name of the game now..Buy now or lament later.
Thankfully there's e-Bay,HO yardsale,the local use market,train shows and some on line shops..One needs to look around on the Internet and attend train shows in order to fill the missing gaps..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
As recently as 2003, when I entered the HO scale side of the hobby, I could pretty much buy any loco I wanted, Athearn or otherwise. But, by 2007, it was all over. It is hard to find anything you want anymore.
As far as Athearn goes, recall that it is now owned by Horizon Hobbies and every loco it produces is quickly distributed to retailers. So, if you look on the Athearn web site, everything is always out of stock.
Specific road names and engine types, if they are available at all, are buried on the shelves of LHS and on line retailers.
Interestingly, if you look long enough and hard enough, you can still find new locos for sale that were first packaged back in 2003. You just have to look long and hard, real long and hard.
Rich
Alton Junction
When I entered the hobby back in 1963, any "authorized" dealer stocked the entire range of products as listed in the manufacturer´s catalog. When an item was not available at his place, he could either swap it with other dealers or get it from the manufacturer within days.
Buying a loco was an experience of its own. You entered the store, voiced your request, and the shop attendant went into the storage to get it. He opened the box, let you take a close look, took it out of the box and made a test run. Price was never an issue - prices were listed in the catalog and that was the amount you had to pay - at any place. No bargains, no dealings, no wheelings, no "I will pre-order it for you"!
The models announced at the Nuremberg Toy Fair were always available in time for the Christmas season.
In those days, model railroading was the # 1 hobby.
Tempi passati!
Sir MadogWhen I entered the hobby back in 1963, any "authorized" dealer stocked the entire range of products as listed in the manufacturer´s catalog.
Back then you didn't need to be a authorized dealer..All you needed was a small business license and your state tax ID and you could go to any hobby distributor or order direct from Walthers.
One of the best hobby shops I was ever in back then was in the basement of a hardware store.
I would like to mention the hardware store near Ft.Knox that had a complete line of model railroad items.
True. If you favor a road other than the major ones, you're lucky to see it once from the manufacturer. It's hard to get an undecorated or unpainted model as well.
I have found that you need to have a list of items / road names you really want and buy them whenever they show up. Patience will help as it could take years. Also be prepared to have to strip and repaint / reletter for the smaller roads. Consider kitbashing and scratch building as well.
Good luck
Paul
Well it's a sign of the times. Inventory costs money, especially at the end of the year when all manners of government, local state and feds tax the **** out of it. The technology for rotating inventory in and out is there why not use it. Buyers like us just need to refine our abilities to purchase. It's great, now you have "the thrill of the hunt". I prefer this than seeing Athearn, et all, going out of business all together.
Happy New Year
Wayne
This is one reason why I have almost completely stopped modeling anything standard gauge. I am getting back into On30 and On3 narrow gauge because 1) I absolutely love it and 2) a lot of what I like are made by individuals here in the US. I much prefer dealing with people that actually make the stuff and I can support an American business.
As far as Bachmann On30 stuff goes, I have a few things, but I only buy what I can't get elsewhere or build myself.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Come to think of it, I haven't purchased a new locomotive since this new method of marketing was begun, 2003-4 or so. I have bought one Blue Box Athearn GP 40-2 locomotive that I built for my grandson off of Ebay and that is it. I look at the adds, and sticker shock kills any thoughts of a purchase! Thankfully my roster is pretty well filled out.
I have bought many Accurail freight cars and am thankful Accurail still produce kits and doesn't market in this new way.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
TA462 I've got so much stuff on preorder now that I've lost track, lol. The only way to be sure your going to get a model you want is to preorder it. Sucks but you can't do anything about it.
I've got so much stuff on preorder now that I've lost track, lol. The only way to be sure your going to get a model you want is to preorder it. Sucks but you can't do anything about it.
You too, huh?
Just gotta keep on plugging away at it.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
NP2626 look at the adds, and sticker shock kills any thoughts of a purchase!
This never was a "poor man's" hobby..
The day of generic freight cars is rapidly coming to a close since modelers are preferring more accurate cars.
How long Accurail and Atlas ex Yardmaster kits will last depends on the demand.
BRAKIE NP2626 look at the adds, and sticker shock kills any thoughts of a purchase! This never was a "poor man's" hobby.. The day of generic freight cars is rapidly coming to a close since modelers are preferring more accurate cars. How long Accurail and Atlas ex Yardmaster kits will last depends on the demand.
Dah!
NP2626 Dah!
You may say that now but,Accurail kits could sink into the sunset if sales drop off..Atlas ex Yardmaster who knows? We already seen the Branchline kits become RTR..
It just as cheap to manufacture RTR as it is kits according to those in the know..
keithh9824,Hobby manufacturers are not in the warehousing business. They are in the manufacturing (or if you prefer, the import) business. They create product and ship it out as fast as possible, They don't make much money stockpiling locos for three years or more (Iowa Interstate GP38's were announced in June 2009) on the odd chance that someone might buy one. It's unrealistic to expect them or any manufacturer to do so.
As for why only Genesis items were hitting the shelves, it's been well documented online that Athearn's RTR Chinese factory closed very suddenly. So suddenly, in fact, that the Chinese "owner" of the factory is, AFAIK, still on the run from the Chinese police, if you catch my meaning. Only just recently has Athearn found another supplier/factory in China for their RTR product line. Expect more RTR products soon.
Lastly...and I only bring it up because it makes your post hard to read...but please use periods and capitalize the first letter of each sentence. I don't say this to be the grammer police as I get no pleasure from correcting typos and junk like that (I make enough mistakes for everyone). But if there are no sentences, it's just not easy to understand what someone is trying to say. Thanks.
richhotrain,Our hobby has always had "batch" production. The difference was back in the "Olden Days"(tm) there was very little product, and therefore batches were run more frequently. But even then, when I got into the hobby in 1990, one could not find any Athearn Trainmasters, RDC's or 200ton cranes. They were simply not available and hadn't been run in years. In the mid-1990's, they were available once more.
IRONROOSTER,Back before limited runs, there were no other roads run by manufacturers other than the major ones. There were also few if any "oddball" locos...ones that were specific to one railroad or ones that weren't made in the thousands by Alco, EMD, FM, BLW, or GE...unless it was a Big Boy or something else famous.
Folks,Everyone has to acknowledge the incredible amount of product that comes out these days. In the 1980's, Athearn came out with the narrowbody diesels like the SD40-2, GP40-2, GP38-2, etc. All told, I think they came out with 4 new engines in 10 years. Nowadays, folks get terribly disappointed if Athearn doesn't come out with multiple new engines every year. And that goes for Atlas, BLI, Bowser, and so on.
In 1991, the Walthers Catalog listed the following Athearn engines:
There were maybe half a dozen road names per type, and only one loco number per paint scheme. And accuracy was more of a guess than anything great (New Haven RR SDP40's, anyone?).Since 2001, Athearn has released something like 60 new engine models. Now a bunch of them are updated BB and RPP and MDC tooling, but all of them had new money invested into them and almost all of them involve different road numbers for multiple paint schemes.
How many can afford to stock hundreds of locos these days as a hobby shop? In the old days, a hobby could get 4 of each engine type made by Athearn (100 Athearn BB engines). The retail price would have been $3,000 ($30 ea.). So if he got 40% off of that, he paid $1,800 for them. Today, if he tried to do the same thing (100 Athearn RTR's at $100 ea.), he'd have to shell out $6,000. And if he wanted 100 Genesis engines, that's more like $11,400 (at his cost) when they cost $190 MSRP. Yikes.
The point here is that expecting to be able to go into any LHS and find everything that's ever been made is totally unrealistic. It's not going to happen. Be glad that somewhere out there is the model you want as at least it's been made. 20 years ago, you'd have to whip out the masking tape and paint your own...provided anyone made the model you wanted.
Paul A. Cutler III
(see below)
BRAKIE NP2626 Dah! You may say that now but,Accurail kits could sink into the sunset if sales drop off..Atlas ex Yardmaster who knows? We already seen the Branchline kits become RTR.. It just as cheap to manufacture RTR as it is kits according to those in the know..
Branchline kits are available from Atlas now, I don't think the Branchline Yardmaster kits are available anymore.
I have personally communicated with Accurail and they have said they are going to stay with kits. However, things change over time; so, if the present RTR craze continues, it is hard to say what will happen.
Having been involved in manufacturing all my adult life, I can assure you it is not as cheap to manufacture RTR, as it is kits! Anyone telling you such, doesn't know what they are talking about. Someone is being paid to assemble the kit into a ready to run car and that someone ain't doing it for nothing!
NP2626Accurail and they have said they are going to stay with kits. However, things change over time; so, if the present RTR craze continues, it is hard to say what will happen.
That's good news since I'm thinking about changing eras and using Accurail cars.
I like RTR but,I dunno something just doesn't seem right when all you need to do is switch out couplers and paint the wheel face but,seeing I built hundreds of kits over the years maybe I lost my kit building interest or grew tired of tweaking Athearn BB kits in order get couplers at the correct height.
I also hope Atlas Trainman (ex-yardmaster) kits lasts.
Larry,
Atlas also produces the Branchline Blueprint series of freight car kits. Are you saying that the Branchline Yardmaster series is now the Atlas Trainman line? I've have not heard that rumor, before.
Two things. It appears Athearn prefers to wholesale to dealers, rather than mess around retailing small orders to consumers.
It also appears that they are slapping the Genesis lable on everything to get a better price. The detailing may be a bit better, but the drive trains appear to be the usual RTR drive trains.
At some point in time we modelers need to take "The Bull by the Horns". If we don't like how a particular producer markets their products, we need to stop buying from them. Someone was saying that Model manufacturers are not storage warehouses, which is true and they never have been! The hobby shops where the warehouses. The hobby shops took care of inventory control, they knew what models sold and what models didn't. The producers made their products and the hobby shops indirectly told them what was selling, by what they reordered. That sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me, why it changed is beyond my ability to comprehend!
Personally, I want kits, not ready to run rolling stock. I have over 125 fright and passenger cars on my railroad. All but, maybe 3-4 are from kits and all the kits were built by me. I have also sold 25 to 30 cars on Ebay. All told since I got into the hobby in the early 1960s I have likely built 200 plus kits. I enjoy building kits immensely! Since I like kits and want to see them around for a long time, I do not buy RTR if I can possibly help it.
I do not buy new Athearn, Roundhouse; or, any of the other RTR suppliers. In essence I am boycotting these companies as I don't want RTR!
NP2626 Larry, Atlas also produces the Branchline Blueprint series of freight car kits. Are you saying that the Branchline Yardmaster series is now the Atlas Trainman line? I've have not heard that rumor, before.
Its no rumor.I found this out while looking at Trainman cars on e-Bay.
These are nice looking cars and easy to build.
Just to continue, Larry is indeed correct. You can find all the Trainman 1937 AAR's here
http://www.atlastrainman.com/HOFreight/tmho1937boxcar.htm
But back to the OP, Pre-orders have become more of norm. All the companies have created artificial demand. I feel like now if I don't pre-order something I want or at least buy it when I see it, I might be out of luck. As others have told you, Athearn lost it's RTR factory without any notice. This of course didn't help.
So either buy it when you see it OR get creative and buy deals that no one else wants and re-paint and or detail for your prototype
By the way, while we are talking about car kits, are there any companies that produce 1950's era freight cars in kit form?
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
Lehigh Valley 2089 By the way, while we are talking about car kits, are there any companies that produce 1950's era freight cars in kit form?
Lehigh Valley,
This is a list people here helped me come up with about this exact question:
Abacus Model Works (Mixed media prototype scale model railway kits in HO).
Accurail (I love this manufacturer, they have told me personally that they will continue to make kits)
Alkem Scale Models (Laser cut freight car kits and detail parts, car kits are from the 1860s to 1890s).
American Model Builders-Laser Kits (Out of the ordinary Wood Caboose Kits. There kits produce very fine caboose models)
American Models (S-Scale & S-Hi-Rail model kits and RTR, a wide selection of products).
Amesville Shops (Resin craftsman Kits of pre-1900s freight Cars).
Atlas Trainman Series (Kits of easy to build AAR box cars).
Bethlehem Car Works (Passenger Car Kits)
Branchline By Atlas (Maybe the second widest selection of kits available. Some small parts that break easily. Branchline Passenger cars can be found at some of the auction sites [Ebay, etc.])
Central Valley Products (Has a very nice Northern Pacific Round roof Stock car Kit).
C&BT Shops (Fairly easy to build, mostly box car kits).
Crusader Rail Services (Handles craftsman kist from a few different manufacturers.
Deerfield River Laser (Laser cut wood kits in 0 scale narrow gage).
Durango Press (Now owned by JL Inovative, did have some HOn3 freight cars).
English Model Railroad Products--Bowser (Bowser sells a nice selection of Freght Car Kits! Easy to build and nicely detailed.)
ExactRail (ExactRail does offer some kits of their products. However, they sell their undecorated unpainted kits for the Exact same price as their RTR [ready to run] products?!?
Funaro & Camerlengo Highly detailed resin unpainted/undecorated kits. I've never built a resin kit, so I can't speak to there difficulty).
Hi Tech. Details (Make kits of Hy Cube Boxcars and detail parts).
Intermountain Railway (Undecorated kits and RTR)
JL Inovative Design (Detail parts, structures, line side details, etc.).
Kadee Quality Products (Kadee offers undecorated; but, painted car kits of many of their Freight Car offerings and has hundreds of detail parts, wheels, trucks and of course probably the best couplers available to the modeler.
Kasloshops (Canadian company with many products listed at http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/kasloshops.html#CMLW ).
Labelle Woodworking (Wood Kits, mostly older truss rod type equipment, both feight and passenger)
Moloco (An Austailian kit manufacture of two General American 50 foot box cars, caboose and freight car parts).
Mount Blue Model Co. (Mostly On3, On30 caboose wood kits.
NKP Car Company. (Prototypically correct passenger cars for many roads. Craftsman kits for experienced modelers, with brass car sides, plastic and resin parts.
OK Engine Company (Passenger car kits and will even make car side per the buyers descriotion of window positions and other data).
Precision Scale Company (As well as an importer of wonderful brass locomotives, the offer some kits in both HO, HOn3, O, On3 and large scale, both cars and locomotives).
QConnection (HO scale Whale Belly Cement car and CB&Q Havelock Baggage/Express car [unsure of material construction] and structure kits. Also sell American Model Builders [Laser Kit] CB&Q Caboose kits).
Rail Line (I could not find a website for this manufacturer; however, they are advertized in the Walther's Catalog as a producer of quality narrow gage plastic kits.
Red Caboose (Undecorated/unpainted freight car kits)
Rib Side Cars (CMSt.P & P, Milwaukee Road 40 & 50 foot Rib Sided steel boxcars with decals for road numbers. Middle as far as difficulty).
Rio Grande Models (HO, HOn3, On3 On30, Sn3 model craftsman's kits with laser cut and cast metal parts).
Silver Crash Car Works (Resin pre-1900 craftsman kits).
Southern Car & Foundry (Manufacture passenger cars, tank cars and box cars in both HO and O scales, fairly expensive).
State Tool & Die (Steel industry hot metal cars,Ingot mold car, Universail Mill cars for steel mills and some structure kits).
Sunshine Models (Another producer of high quality/highly detailed resin kits.
Tichy Train Group (Nice selection of out of the ordinary and ordinary Freight Car Kits)
Treasure Trove (HOn3 Trucks, Passenger and Freight cars kits).
Trout Creek Engineering (HOn3 freight and caboose craftsman kits in wood, styrene with metal detail parts).
Westerfield (Another resin kit manufacturer, extensive list of kits).
Wrighttrak (Resin kits Freight cars and cabooses, loved there sales position: Our models are not "ready to run" because we feel each model should be built and painted by the modeler according to their specifications. We also feel that a hobby should be "hands on" for enjoyment and to be able to say "I built that". A hobby is an activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure or relaxation, often in one's spare time. Personal fulfillment is the aim!
Ye Olde Huff & Puff (Wood Kits, older steam up to transition era freight cars and Cabooses from Silver Streak, Mainline Models, Sugar Pine Models and AC Models)
Decals by Jerry Glow:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals/full.html
NP2626 wrote:
In this case I would normally agree with you as it totally flies in the face of logic that a RTR model would cost the same as a kit to produce. However, the word came from Athearn themselves that having the Chinese make BB kits would cost the same as their RTR line. Some of that is that these are not Genesis-like models, so it's not like the parts list would be very long. Assembly of most Athearn RTR models can't cost very much. The other part is that it may have been true at that time when they made the decision to eliminate the BB kits, perhaps because of a very favorable factory contract they had. It's also perfectly possible that Athearn fudged the truth to make it seem like they had no choice. Who knows? But again from what I understand, the word came directly from Athearn that RTR = kits in price.
hobo9941 wrote:
Athearn preferred selling wholesale to wholesalers like Walthers, Hobbytyme, etc. After they were bought by Horizon Hobby, they became exclusive to Horizon. Athearn has never actually sold direct to retailers, AFAIK. They have gone through wholesalers first. Just in their case now, it's only through Horizon because they own them.If you want to buy direct, the online retail arm for Athearn is:http://www.horizonhobbytrains.com/CategoryLandingView?categoryId=10001084
Um, no. I don't think you've actually looked at both side by side, have you? Most Athearn RTR's still have the old JET motor and still use the same gear tower design from the 1980's. They do have improved drive shafts, worms, and spur gears, but otherwise look remarkably familar from 30 years ago.Genesis units all have can motors and have much different truck construction with a more precise fit for the gears. The result is a quieter, lower amp drive that's more effiecient and, believe it or not, lasts longer.
At some point in time we modelers need to take "The Bull by the Horns". If we don't like how a particular producer markets their products, we need to stop buying from them.
Someone was saying that Model manufacturers are not storage warehouses, which is true and they never have been! The hobby shops where the warehouses. The hobby shops took care of inventory control, they knew what models sold and what models didn't.
The producers made their products and the hobby shops indirectly told them what was selling, by what they reordered. That sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me, why it changed is beyond my ability to comprehend!
Think about this: in the past 10 years or so, Athearn and Atlas combined have released over 5000 individual & different engines. That's over 5000 SKU's a hobby shop would have to stock, and the average price of these 5000 engines is at least $100. If some LHS was able to buy one of everything from these two companies, they'd have to shell out for over half a million bucks worth of product in 10 years. How many folks have that kind of money to stock a hobby shop? Or can afford to have that kind of stock laying around? And what if they ordered two of everything? Or 10?
Now compare it to the 1980's, where Athearn was making 25 or so engines in half a dozen road names (no multiple road numbers) and Atlas was making maybe 15 different engines in half a dozen schemes (no multiple road numbers) for around 240 different SKU's. At an average price of well under $50 (call it $50 to be fair), that's only around $12,000 bucks (MSRP) in 10 years of production.Can we see the difference now? $500,000 vs. $12,000. Take 40% off of that for wholesale, and you're still talking $300,000 vs. $7,200. Do you understand now?UPinCT,There is no "artificial demand". Either the demand is there or it isn't. The only change is the time between when it's available and when it's gone. Say there's a new car coming out. If you don't want it, you don't order it. There is no demand there from you for that new car. But say there is a new car that you do want, but if you had a choice, you'd delay purchase for whatever reason. You feel you have to buy it now or you won't get it later, right? Well, the demand was there...just the timing changed.
Lehigh Valley 2089,See: Bowser, Atlas Trainman kits, Accurail, and even Kadee makes kits.
The Atlas/Trainman kits are 1950 era..Accurail does 50 era cars as well.
You can still find Athearn BB,MDC,Bev-Bel/Athearn and other like kits f you look around at train shows and on e-Bay..
Oh, sorry. I was wondering if there were cars of that era from the 50's time frame in N scale.
Again, sorry I didn't make that specific.
Lehigh Valley 2089 Oh, sorry. I was wondering if there were cars of that era from the 50's time frame in N scale. Again, sorry I didn't make that specific.
Yes,Atlas,Atlas/Trainman,Micro Trains,Fox Valley,Eastern Seaboard,Delux and several others.