I have n scale and G scale
Enjoy!
I have several sound loco's for a while but only today ran one for the first time. I finally got a test loop up and running today and ran one of my Atlas GP40-2's with sound in DC mode. It was kinda cool but after a while of running around the loops, the sound got irritating. I think since it was in DC mode and I didn't have total control of the sounds made some difference too, DCC mode would have allowed me to control more of the sounds separately.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
So Mike, what do you think of sound?
Far as sound, I love sound engines but there will all wise room on my roster for none sound engines! Far as Steam, it must have sound!
riogrande5761I have several sound loco's for a while but only today ran one for the first time. I finally got a test loop up and running today and ran one of my Atlas GP40-2's with sound in DC mode. It was kinda cool but after a while of running around the loops, the sound got irritating.
I am all so glad that sound has a off function as well! Might try turning the sound down, on my Diesels I have cut the sound to between 75 and 50 percent and it helped me a lot to enjoy them.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
I hope you enjoy it. I've had a grand total of one and found it to be so annoying I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I guess I'm just one of those who don't like sound.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
jeffrey-wimberly I hope you enjoy it. I've had a grand total of one and found it to be so annoying I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I guess I'm just one of those who don't like sound.
I have a few, and initially found the sound most annoying. As time passes, the sound becomes more acceptable. Must be mellowing
The Atlas GP40-2 I have with sound I ran in DC mode - the sound works but I'm not sure if there is a way to control it or vary the volume. I do have a DCC system (Digitrax Radio Chief) with the original DT100 controller but no layout so I haven't used it in quite a while. I really need to get the DT400 throttle which is supposed to make programming alot easier but I haven't been able to bring myself to cough up the $180 or so for one hand held throttle! Anyhow, I realize DCC gives control over the sound in loco's so I'll have to try that out next.
It's all about the volume. Most sound engines and decoders are shipped at full volume. If you adjust the volumes to a more comfortable level, they are great fun. I love to hit the break squeal when shoving a long cut into the yard, or making a setoff, or slowly rounding a curve.
Generally, you can reduce the volume on any sound decoder by 1/3 to 1/2 and have it loud enough. And if I get tired of it - bip! - I just press F8 and the sound disappears. I do enjoy sound but I also enjoy running them muted - especially if I'm watching a movie with my wife.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Monsterbigmike!
Congratulations! You haven't said what you think of the sound so after you play with it for a while and maybe make some adjustments you should let us know.
I love sound but I have a couple of early sound decoders that don't sound all that good, specifically Soundtraxx LC series which are now discontinued. I have recently installed two QSI decoders with dual speakers and I think they sound really good. I also have a couple of ESU (Loksound) decoders and they are nice sounding as well.
I am by no means an expert on sound but I think one of the key things you should learn to do is adjust the volume(s). Some decoders come with the volume cranked up to full and the effect is not always pleasant. The sound should not make you jump or squint your eyes every time there is a brake squeal or a bell rung. As Cuda Ken says, 50-75% is much better in most cases. On most decoders you can also adjust individual sound volumes so if the bell is rattling your fillings but the chuff is ok, then you can lower the bell alone. I believe that the sound should not dominate the experience, but it should add a detail that is reasonably realistic and most of all enjoyable.
One thing that totally turns me off with sound is the insertion of human voices. For whatever reason to me the sound of a disembodied voice is very annoying. Each to his own!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Congratulations on your new sound loco!
I like sound very much, it adds a new dimension to model railroading, when sensibly applied. Quite often, however, the volume is turned up to much and those additional sound features get used too much or not in context with prototypical situations.
I also find operating more than one sound loco on a layout annoying.
I have quite a few sound locos, steam and diesel. They run the gambit from BLI to MRC decoders with a generous helping of Soundtraxx LC and DSX decoders.
The key to enjoying sound equipped locomotives IMHO is to keep the volume down. This is especially important on a small layout like my BRVRR.
With the sound toned down I am comfortable running two, three or even four sound equipped locomotives. And it it does get to be too much, F-8 takes care of the problem/situation.
Sound adds another dimension to model railroading and, I think, has had nearly as much effect on the hobby as DCC.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Job 1 for me is getting the address 'fixed when I get a new loco. Right away I programme the cab number for the loco into the address.
Job 2 is to access the CV (two of them in succession for QSI's) for Master Volume, and I halve it...mathematically. If the max volume figure is 256, I input 128,
Then I tailor the individual sounds to suit my taste. The bell is usually much too loud in relation to other noises. The chuff is often too loud too, for an observer standing 200-400 scale feet away from a hard-working or yard-working locomotive. But it really depends, and you have to listen and decide if the 50% Master Volume programming looks after about 70-90% of all the audible annoyances...and they're almost certainly going to be there. For example, the blowdown and injector roars and howls from the earlier QSI's drove me batty. Rod clank on the Tsunamis has to be cranked way down.
Anyway, do reduce the Master Volume right away. Live with that setting for an hour or so and then adjust up or down, or fiddle with individual sounds as you see fit. In fact, it might be good to wait to fiddle with the individual sounds and the first Master Volume reduction until after a night away from the layout and your brain and ears are keen once again.
Crandell
I agree that once the volume has been adjusted to a proper level, it adds to the enjoyment of the layout. The size and acoustics of the room definitely determine the level the volume is set at. A friends loco that sounds quite loud in his basement with cement floors and walls can hardly be heard in my carpeted finished train room.
When I got my Bachmann and BLI steamers the volume was perfect out of the box. My diesels however shook the rafters until the volume was adjusted.
One thing I like to do is turn all the engines sound off and listen to an engine running around the layout. It is amazing how one can pick up any potential track issue's just by the clicks and clacks one hears as the engine goes around.
Congrat's on your first sound Loco Mike. May it be the first of many.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
As others have already stateted, sound can be a hot debate or it can be very workable. I have a large fleet of diesels, all with DCC decoders, but I have settled on only 10 or 12 having sound, not because of cost, but because of the hearing aids I wear. I have found with the hearing aids in place, sound can be very annoying, to the point that I usually leave only one sound equiped on the layout so that during an op session I have to listen to everyone "tooting" their horn all the time.
My compromise with sound then is simple. When I am on tour, or showing the layout to people that include mostly non modelers, I run a sound unit or two. For an op session, depending on who the operators are, I may leave sound off the railroad althogether.
Remember not only is it "your railroad", you also have to live with it.
Bob
There is noise and then there is sound. Many sound systems just make noise that is distantly related to real railroad sounds. Sounds that irritate are not only too loud, but are often turned down because they are not that good in the first place. In general, a really first rate sound decoder will run you in the area of $100.00 by itself!
However, the manufacturers are catching up and some few, (very few), produce servicable sounds at under $100.00. The old maxim, you get what you pay for is sage advice here.
In general, DCC is a must have with expensive decoders or you'll never see the value vs. what you spent running them on DC.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
jeffrey-wimberly had a grand total of one and found it to be so annoying I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I guess I'm just one of those who don't like sound.
Russell
riogrande5761 Enjoy! I have several sound loco's for a while but only today ran one for the first time. I finally got a test loop up and running today and ran one of my Atlas GP40-2's with sound in DC mode. It was kinda cool but after a while of running around the loops, the sound got irritating. I think since it was in DC mode and I didn't have total control of the sounds made some difference too, DCC mode would have allowed me to control more of the sounds separately.
There is considerable research that suggests that poor quality audio reproduction can be very irritating to the "brains" of many people. Listening "fatigue" is actually the test of good speakers, the longer it sounds good, the better the speakers are.
As an avid HiFi hobbyist and speaker designer, nothing that comes out of two 1" speakers can be anything but irritating.
But what do I know?
Sheldon
It seems we all agree.... for once!
Some hate sound, some don't... actually like it, others fall somewhere in between. I have it on about half my locos and noticed long ago that all sound is not created equal. Some of my earliest QSI sound units are, to me.... quite terrible. I was running a little 0-8-0 last night, I believe it is a Proto 2000, with sound and i thought how bad it sounded. Then I ran Bachmans consolidation with a Tsunami decoder and was much, much more pleased.
I agree, Rule 1... turn the volume down before you do anything else and turn it down to suit the room it's being run in. Small layout room, turn it way down. Large exhibition hall, turn'er up more.
Jarrell
Joe Staten Island West
that what i had to do is turn the volume down and i love it want to get more sound stuff
in time I sill have alot work to do on my train plan
Congratulations on your sound equipped locomotive.
I enjoy 1st and 2nd generation locomotive sound very much as it brings back fond memories of my railfanning days during my teens. For me, metaphorically, sound is part of the gourmet meal that operating a model railroad can be.
I agree that a key facet to enjoying sound (for most modelers) is to keep the volume turned low. Imho, a rule of thumb I use for my lone sound equipped unit: If I'm at a club layout, and it's 20 feet down the mainline at a stop signal idling, I shouldn't be able to hear the prime mover if there are other trains running on the layout.
I've read threads in the past where posters complained about some modelers at clubs that persist on turning their units up to "full volume". I think that it could be a subconscious feeling of wanting to show off their units. Now more clubs are starting to implement rules regarding sound volume. Good move as modelers should be considerate of one another.
One of the scenes I'm looking forward to regularly creating on my layout is to have a batch of sound equipped HO SCL EMD and GE locomotives sitting at my fuel & service shop area on the ready track awaiting assignments idling.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
You want to know what my biggest problem is with sound Diesels is? I feel compelled to sound the darn horn as it goes around the layout!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL There is considerable research that suggests that poor quality audio reproduction can be very irritating to the "brains" of many people.
There is considerable research that suggests that poor quality audio reproduction can be very irritating to the "brains" of many people.
Obviously, that doesn't seem to hold true for cell phones, which have rather poor quality audio - as compared to a land line. But...I accept the limitations of a cell phone much the same way as I accept the limitations of a 1" speaker. At least with the decoder, I can mute the sound and still enjoy the technology.
I am one of those who can do very nicely without the sound for two reasons... 1. I'm basically deaf and to have the sound that loud where I can hear it is grossly annoying. And, 2. I have yet to hear any sound from a scale locomotive sound anything reasonably close to the original. (Professional Musician....) Laws of physics come into play here. Those that like sound equipped locos, be my guest and enjoy. To each their own.
Only reason I am posting here is to ask a related question. When sound is "muted" on the decoder, does it have to muted again every time the loco gets powered up or does it stay muted? I ask because I am looking at buying a locomotive I really want, but I can get the factory sound equipped one for less than a DCC ready one plus the cost of the decoder. I could probably just clip one of the speaker wires, but would rather just set it up so the sound is off.
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
Your layout pics are very impressive and well done. To answer your question re: the muting , yes, you wil. Have to mute it each time. Rather than cutting a speaker wire, why not just turn the volume way down?
Hergy Your layout pics are very impressive and well done. To answer your question re: the muting , yes, you wil. Have to mute it each time. Rather than cutting a speaker wire, why not just turn the volume way down?
hmmmm... you know, as many sound locomotives as I have and as many times as I've 'muted' them over the years, I don't recall right off, without going out to the trainroom and testing it, if the sound stays muted after a shutdown/restart. I do know that last night I had an Genesis SD 70 running and I either muted it and it stayed that way after a restart of the Zephyr or I had hit the emergency stop button on my DT 400 throttle which, on that particular engine, shuts the loco down completely sound and all until you twiddle the throttle knob and it will come back to life. It has a Tsunami decoder in it, so maybe it's different ways with different sound systems. I'll have to test a few of them and pay attention to what happens on a restart of the system.
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL There is considerable research that suggests that poor quality audio reproduction can be very irritating to the "brains" of many people. Obviously, that doesn't seem to hold true for cell phones, which have rather poor quality audio - as compared to a land line. But...I accept the limitations of a cell phone much the same way as I accept the limitations of a 1" speaker. At least with the decoder, I can mute the sound and still enjoy the technology. Tom
I for one hate talking on a cell phone for that very reason. And today's "cheap" land line phones are no where near the sound quality of those made by Western Electric years ago.
The cell phone is a work tool and personal convenience for me, not a hobby, or social activity. My car has indash hands free bluetooth for my phone - bringing the sound quality up as high cell phone technology allows. My cell phone usage last month was a typical for me average of 11 minutes per day.
I don't listen to music on computer monitor speakers, or on smart phones or tablets. I got rid of all the nine transistor radios in the house years ago. I'm surely not investing $100 a loco for something that sounds no better than that $10 nine transistor radio I had as a preteen in 1968.
Another fact about our brains and sounds - for short periods of time, like the length of a 3 minute pop song, our brains "pretend" that the poor quality sounds are the same as the "better" version in our memory that we previously heard live or on better reproduction equipment. But that "effect" has a limited time span, after which are brains start to become "tired" of squalky, compressed, and pitchy sound from poor quality sources.
I do like onboard sound in the larger scales, where the speakers are bigger, and the viewer is in a more "intimate" relationship with the model, because its larger size makes it effectively "closer" to you.
And, I will concede, that reasonable effects can be had on HO layouts where only one loco operates at a time and the layout is designed, operated and viewed in an intimate style, such as a shelf layout of a short line.
But a room full of those things on a large layout with 4-8 trains moving and operators trying to communicate with each other - no thank you - there is no volume setting low enough except OFF. And based on a number of replies to this thread reguarding operating sessions and sound, I am far from being alone in this view.
At 3 actual feet you are 261 scale feet away. At 8 feet you are nearly 700 scale feet away. I have listened to more than a few real trains, steam and diesel, from those distances - you hear way more track/wheel/coupler noise than you do loco noise - a secondary benefit of metal wheels and sprung trucks on HO equipment.
Howmus wrote:
"Only reason I am posting here is to ask a related question. When sound is "muted" on the decoder, does it have to muted again every time the loco gets powered up or does it stay muted? I ask because I am looking at buying a locomotive I really want, but I can get the factory sound equipped one for less than a DCC ready one plus the cost of the decoder. I could probably just clip one of the speaker wires, but would rather just set it up so the sound is off"
Ray,I have many sound-equipped engines on my layout,from several manufacturers. The only one I have to mute on startup (every time!) is an old athearn genesis with the MRC decoder. If you're getting anything but that,I think you'll be okay.
Mike
Thanks guys! I guess I will be able to get the loco (one of the Bachman Alco 2-6-0 ones) without having to do major surgery on it.
Sheldon, guess we have something in common after all.... LOL I spent the last 20 years of my career running a small sound and recording business. I still use my old near field monitors down in the train rooms for some decent sound, including an old recording I did for a client of some recordings of Steam Locomotives... I like to turn on that CD and have it playing when I am running trains solo. The newer Alisis speakers are here by my computer for those times I fire up iTunes. I have over 8000 full res (AIFF) files on a hard drive I used to use for DJing.
NorthCoast... Rotary Dial? I miss picking up the phone and having a human being say, "Number Please."