Well, I just picked up my first piece of brass: An unpainted OMI NYC 19000-series Wood sheath caboose by Ajin:
In general - the caboose is in very good shape, with only a couple of small spots where the surface is slightly discolored.
Given that this is my first piece of brass, I do have a couple of questions for the panel of experts:
Thanks for the help ahead of time...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Tom, I don't really know the answer to those questions, but it seems to me that if the journals currently manage Kadee or Jaybee or IM wheelsets, as examples of possibilties, then the journals should be close to 'standard shape' where the axle ends touch them. It stands to reason that a gentle ream attempt with 'the tool' might.....MIGHT...free up some gunk and smooth things out a bit, particularly after re-lubing. I wonder if a sharp toothpick and some Goof Off first to clean out the journals, then a drying, and then a lubing might improve things sufficiently that you can forget the Tool.
Is it your intent to leave this piece of eye-candy as-is visually, or will you ship it off for a custom paint job? Any brass I buy, used or new, will be painted before it gets onto my trains for revenue service. To date, though, I only have the one brass purchase, the Sunset Selkirk 2-10-4. Painted, natch.
Crandell
I keep patiently watching and waiting to snag one of the Overland Reading cabooses. No luck snagging one for a price I'm willing to pay, yet. But I'm patient.
Brass isn;t known for its free-rolling characteristics. Kind of a shock after modern plastic trucks and slippery plastic axles. Good thing it's a caboose, it will keep the slack stretched out on your train.
As for couplers, ever wonder why the Kadee #5 style boxes had those ears on them when everyone always seems to clip them off? Now you know. I've seen brass with the holes drilled and maybe even tapped in that pattern - the idea being that by attaching the plastic box by the side ears, the coupler is insulated from the metal carbody, so there won't be any shorting issues through the couplers. You cna still get a nice solid short if one of the trucks gets spun around though, so if you put it on the track and everything dies, check that first.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have the brass NYC NJ Pacemaker caboose. I had a friend paint it for me. I put the #5 couplers on. I was lucky to pick it up for $70.00. I only run it with twenty seven Pacemaker box cars and runs fine. It was tough finding boxcars with a different number.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
selector Is it your intent to leave this piece of eye-candy as-is visually, or will you ship it off for a custom paint job? Crandell
Is it your intent to leave this piece of eye-candy as-is visually, or will you ship it off for a custom paint job?
Thanks for the input, fellas. Crandell, my intent is to paint and detail it (whether it's me or someone else) and run it on my layout. Only if a piece is not "serviceable" will it sit on display or go back in the box. I'm into modeling and operating; not collecting.
rrinker As for couplers, ever wonder why the Kadee #5 style boxes had those ears on them when everyone always seems to clip them off? Now you know. I've seen brass with the holes drilled and maybe even tapped in that pattern - the idea being that by attaching the plastic box by the side ears, the coupler is insulated from the metal carbody, so there won't be any shorting issues through the couplers. You cna still get a nice solid short if one of the trucks gets spun around though, so if you put it on the track and everything dies, check that first.
That makes perfect sense, Randy. There are four (4) holes in a "T" pattern on the underside of each end of the caboose in the following manner:
O
O O
The three (3) vertical holes are closest to the ends and these line up with both the center hole and the two side ears of the Kadee coupler box. Obviously, as you pointed out, Randy, the side ears would be used for brass to insulate the couplers from the caboose body.
Along the same vein, I thought I was going to need to switch out the wheel sets for insulated ones because the wheel sets that came with the caboose were uninsulated. However, upon closer inspection, they are indeed insulated. And, I also discovered that the coupler box holes - although shallow - are already tapped.
I don't know that "the TOOL" was designed for reaming metal trucks, so let us know if the process damages it? I would try some graphite first. Will you be painting? I would use the #5 coupler box. Since the #5 coupler box has a plastic boss the mounting screw goes through which in turn goes through the coupler, I don't worry about shorts as there is no metal to metal connection. If your still worried about a short, there are 2-56 plastic screws you could use.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP,
The truck reamer should work fine on both plastic and metal journals. Brass is a soft conglomerate (bronze and zinc) and is fairly easy to machine. So, it shouldn't place undue wear 'n tear on the reamer.
With that said, it's generally wise to keep plastic and metal cutters separate and "designated" - if possible. That way you don't run the risk of inadvertently contaminating and marring your plastic stock during machining because of metal shavings or debris.
Therefore, having two designated truck reamers - one for plastic trucks; the other for metal trucks - is the best way to handle that.
Tom,
I read through quick, but I don't think it was mentioned...oil those brass truck journals and they roll much better.
Depending on how old it is, the sideframes of the trucks may be attached with screws. Sometimes loosening them to adjust the square of the truck will also help. It's also possible to have a warped sideframe, which can be gently straightened and bent in or out a little depending on the symptoms.
The third thing is a wild shot, but worth mentioning. Definitely check wheel gauge. Many Overland trucks seem to be a little tight in gauge. You'll likely want a NWSL wheel puller or something to break the wheel free and move it. Sometimes this wil put a burr on the pointy end of the axle. Unless you take the time to smooth it with a file, that could be another source of your problem.
I'd agree that brass trucks aren't quite as free-rolling as modern plastic ones are, but they should still roll free and easy when set-up right.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks for that info and suggestions, Mike. What sort of lube would you suggest between the truck and the wheel axle points?
Presently applying a gentle "flick" test with my finger, the wheels spin ~0.5 seconds. Yea, I guess I've been spoiled for this long by plastic trucks.
Tom:
I wouldn't use the Tool on the brass sideframes--just clean whatever gunk might have accumulated in the truck journals with alcohol and a Q-tip, then after it's dry, apply a small drop of LaBelle #8 light oil just as you would do to a Walthers passenger car. Should do the trick just fine. You're right, the car won't roll as freely as it would if the trucks were plastic, but the oil should help it roll much more smooth.
The Kadee #5 coupler box should be able to be mounted to the car with #90 screws. That seems to be the standard tap in the brass mounting holes--at least in all of my brass tenders. I would assume the caboose would be the same thing.
That's one VERY handsome caboose, BTW. I've always kind of admired the fact that the NYC didn't go with the "Northeastern" style of crummy that every other railroad in that area of the US seemed to prefer.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Be careful with the graphite it is conductive, actually it's what the motor brushes are made of. If you use too much it could bridge the gap between the insulated wheels & the axle & cause a short...found this out the hard way. jerry
Tom.
Some brass wheel sets have a blunt axle end instead of the pointy end like the plastic trucks. A good clean and lube plus a possible shimming the screwed on side frame should have these rolling as good or better than the plastic ones.Make sure the insulated wheels are on the same side after assembly.
If the model has a good flat clear coat with no dust and dirt imbedded in it do not strip it before painting. It will make a great base coat for your paint to adhere too. I suggest using Scalecoat 1 paint. It is designed for brass and once baked on dries glossy for decal application.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I use LaBelle 108 on my stuff, because so much is plastic and it's plastic-compatible. Any good light machine oil will work.
I like the roll test better, using the assembled truck. It's more likely to catch an out-of-square or other issue with a sideframe. Also, if it tends to dodge in one direction, instead of running straight, then the drag/issue affects the side it turns toward as it rolls.
twhite That's one VERY handsome caboose, BTW. I've always kind of admired the fact that the NYC didn't go with the "Northeastern" style of crummy that every other railroad in that area of the US seemed to prefer.
The tunnels on the NYC pretty much dictated the use of the low cupola and stack. Regular cupolas were too tall. Only those on the Big Four had cupolas that were regular-sized.
Yea, the 19000-series cabooses were unique. That's pretty much why so few manufacturers are willing to produce them. Other than Trix and Waterlevel Models kits, brass is the only way to get this specific cabooses.
jerryl Be careful with the graphite it is conductive, actually it's what the motor brushes are made of. If you use too much it could bridge the gap between the insulated wheels & the axle & cause a short...found this out the hard way. jerry
How can graphite used as a lubricant in a location already making electrical contact cause a short?
I discovered a couple of things about the new caboose. The two side mounting holes (vs. the single center hole) for the Kadee coupler boxes are 0-80s. 1/8" long screws are too short and 1/4" are way too long. So, I'll have to cut some 1/4" long 0-80s down to ~9/32" (0.156") in length.
Other than the bolster screw, there is no screw on the truck for removing the wheel sets. Do they solder the truck together with the wheel sets already in place? I don't see any way of getting the wheel sets off.
I'll go ahead and clean out the truck journals with some lacquer thinner then, once dry, oil them with Labelle #108 to see if they roll more easily.
Yep, on the older ones, they soldered the truck together.
Depending on your comfort level and if you've detected places where the wheelsets seem tight, you can gently pry the sideframe out to loosen things up. A fingernail will work. If you use a tool, remember it doesn't take much pressure. I've generally found I can pop the wheelsets out this way and reinstall with a squeeze on the sideframes to snug it back up.
Thanks for the help everyone on the new caboose. A drop of Labelle #108 on the axle tips helped out nicely. Not as good as plastic but better than what it was.
Does the wheel action get smoother/better as the caboose breaks in?
It should improve with running if it was just tight and now runs fairly freely with the lube. The difference won't be dramatic, but it shouldn't be worse.
Another option would be to replace the brass trucks with plastic.
True, NP...until I want to paint the trucks the same color as the caboose. I had considered though.
Why the issue with the center screw on the coupler box? The center screw hole has an integral sleeve to prevent squeezing the box (andso binding the coupler swing) when using the center hole for mounting, so there would be no way to short through the coupler. Am I missing something?
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Duh! Thanks for pointing the obvious out, Mark. . The coupler is indeed insulated:
I'll still need to shorten a pair of 2-56 screws so that they don't bottom out in the hole.
Got the Kadee #58s on 'er:
I had already cut down four (4) brass 0-80 x 1/4" screws to length so I just used those to secure the Kadee coupler box to the underside of the body.
It made its maiden voyage around the layout earlier this evening. Should look really nice once it's painted and detailed - whenever that will happen.