I noticed some suppliers have the HOn3 and HOn30 in two different categories, but I can’t figure out what the difference is. Can someone clear this up for me?
SleeperN06 I noticed some suppliers have the HOn3 and HOn30 in two different categories, but I can’t figure out what the difference is. Can someone clear this up for me?
HOn3 HO scale "n" narrow gauge 3 track gauge in feet
Just to confuse you in HOn30 they have quoted the gauge the 30 in inches, so it should really be HOn21/2
So it uses the same pattern and isn't confusing.
regards John
Thanks for replying. I’m still a little confused. I’m assuming by 3-track you mean Lionel O gauge.
Bachmann has their Christmas Street Car as On30 and I’ve seen it advertised as O gauge on HO track. Would the Con-Cor HOn3 Street car be the same scale as O?
SleeperN06 Thanks for replying. I’m still a little confused. I’m assuming by 3-track you mean Lionel O gauge. Bachmann has their Christmas Street Car as On30 and I’ve seen it advertised as O gauge on HO track. Would the Con-Cor HOn3 Street car be the same scale as O?
No we are talking about HO scale equipment.
Standard gauge is four foot and eight and a half inches. This is what your HO scale tracks are.
HO n means that it is an HO scale model that is running on narrow gauge tracks. Like an industrial railroad or perhaps a mountain railroad.
HO n3 means that the HO scale equipment is running on tracks with a three foot gauge.
HO n30 means that the HO scale equipment is running on a track with a 30 inch gauge. (About 2 1/2 ft)
All of the people, house and scenery are in HO scale (1:87) including the trains, but the tracks are a narrow gauge. When looking at the layout the trains would look too big for the track even though they are usually smaller that standard gauge equipment.
HO n3 obviously requires a different size track, smaller than HO but of course it is still HO.
HO n30 Likewise requires a smaller track but happens to work out to N gauge track with an HO sized train running on it . (Leastwise I *think* that n30 is what can run on standard N track) Of course if you were to really model this you would want to actually buy or build HO n30 track rather than using N gauge track for the tie frequency and spacing would not be correct for a narrow gauge operation.
On30 would be O scale equipment (1:48) built as narrow gauge equipment and would fit on standard HO tracks but again with the same issue as running HOn30 on N scale tracks, It would not look right.
LGB train sets (G Scale) run on Number 1 gauge tracks, but are in fact narrow gauge equipment, the trains would be much bigger if you were to use 1 scale trains on those tracks.
Thus spake the LION, your facts may be different.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I think you're confusing scale and gauge somewhat. It's true that a On30 car will operate on HO track. While the gauge of the track is the same, like the relationship between HOn30 and N scale models, they are built to different scales.
HOn3 track gauge is 10.5mm.
HOn30 track gauge is 9mm. This is the same as N gauge, so N gauge track and mechanisms, trucks, etc are sometimes used to model it.
HOn3 (or any HO item, i.e. 1:87 ratio) is a different scale than O (1:48).
Sometimes, HOn3 gauge track/mechanisms/trucks are used to represent O scale 20" gauge track (On20) and N gauge track/mechanisms/trucks are used to represent 18" gauge track (On18).
The Con-Cor HOn3 streetcar mechanism could be used in O as the basis of a On20 loco, but the shell of it would look weird on an O scale layout. You'd also need 10.5mm gauge track to run it on.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The "n" refers to narrow guage. HOn3 refers to an HO scale model of a three-foot (36 inches) narrow gauge locomotive, rolling stock, or track. There are other sizes of narrow guage trains as well. One is HOn30, which is actually two and a half-foot (30 inches). The two and a half foot guage is not as common in North America as the three-foot guage was. However by sheer accident an On30 scale model will run on HO track, and HOn30 models will run on N-scale track. So manufacturers like Bachman fudge the 6-inch difference and make the models to the two and a half foot guage. That way they don't have to manufacture special track, they can just use the available track from the smaller scale.
So the Con-Cor HOn30 street car is an HO model designed to run on N-scale track, that's all.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Wow, this surely has been educational and thanks everyone. I think I got it now. Up until now I could only relate to N, HO, and O scales because I actually have each of these scale, but the narrow gauge stuff has always been a mystery. I see it in the online catalogs, but was afraid to buy any of it.
I was actually looking for a street car to run in my town and maybe a small mining train if it will fit in my mountain.
HOn30 was started as a way to model 2 foot gauge railroads in HO scale using N scale track, trucks, and locomotive mechanisms.
This is actually a common way many narrow gauge modeling scales began. S scale 3 foot gauge railroads were originally modeled by many using HO track etc. which made them Sn3 1/2. Going one step further Sn2 is modeled using HOn3 track etc. Nn3 uses Z track etc.
Enjoy
Paul
Thanks S gauge is another one of those categories I’ve seen listed, but never actually saw one up close next to another scale.
I do also have to say that I never heard of HO scale trains running on N track or even N on Z so now when I hear “narrow gauge” I now know exactly what it is.
I’m going to be keeping my eye opened for Narrow gauge the next time I’m at a show although I don’t think I’ll ever have a layout using it because of the cost. I am interested in seeing what people have done with it.
I remember seeing a post many years ago of a mining operation that someone done using smaller gauge track, but it was all kit bashed and I figured the smaller track was just something they came up with for that particular layout.
N scale track is not the only choice for running HOn30 (HOn 2-1/2, also known in Europe as HOe just to add to the confusion). Peco makes HOn30 track and turnouts with smaller ties but larger spacing between the ties. Some of the Peco ties are set at slightly odd angles and not all of the ends of the ties are square. The Peco track is designed to replicate the lower standards for track laying that were often used where 30" track was being laid. It was usually used for short run railways, often in rough terrain, and the track was not required to last for years under heavy use like a main line. Hence, it was laid as cheaply as possible.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/552-500
The small engine in my avatar is HOn30. It was built using a Bachmann N gauge 4-4-0 steam drive system. The only parts that are left from the original engine are the locomotive main driving wheels and worm gear assembly, and the tender which is disguised as a work gondola. The gon contains the electric motor.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
So just out of curiosity, what would be the min radius on HOn30 with the BCH International HOn30 5061 MinitrainS Steam Loco & 8 Car Set?
To accurately answer the OP's Question;the Distance between inner rails, or flange way is;(By my Caliper):
HOn3 0.4195" or 10.65mm
HOn30(N) 0.355" or 9.02mm
Thanks for asking, & good luck!
SleeperN06 So just out of curiosity, what would be the min radius on HOn30 with the BCH International HOn30 5061 MinitrainS Steam Loco & 8 Car Set?
At a guess and I do mean guess
Based on the fact that a Peco HOn30 point is 12" radius I would say 12 inches is the minimum radius.
But it would really need some one far more familiar with that scale gauge combination to give a more accurate answer.
Thanks I was just wondering how much room I would need to build a small mining operation and if I could actually have a loop or not.
I've operated the old Mini-Trains/now-BCH locos and cars. My guess is that 6" min radius is more like it, maybe less. They have loop couplers (at least the old ones did, not sure about BCH) so they can really get around some corners.
Here's a great website with lots of ideas for tiny layouts in multiple scale/gauge combinations to give you an idea of what's possible:
http://carendt.com/microplans/index.html
mlehman I've operated the old Mini-Trains/now-BCH locos and cars. My guess is that 6" min radius is more like it, maybe less. They have loop couplers (at least the old ones did, not sure about BCH) so they can really get around some corners. Here's a great website with lots of ideas for tiny layouts in multiple scale/gauge combinations to give you an idea of what's possible: http://carendt.com/microplans/index.html
Thanks I really don’t need another layout, but when I saw the one that was only 12 x 17, my head started to swim. LOL
SleeperN06 mlehman SNIP http://carendt.com/microplans/index.html Thanks I really don’t need another layout, but when I saw the one that was only 12 x 17, my head started to swim. LOL
mlehman SNIP http://carendt.com/microplans/index.html
SNIP
Remember that's 12 by 17 inches folks.
Yeah, it's easy to get sucked into another layout when they're so tiny...
SleeperN06 Thanks I was just wondering how much room I would need to build a small mining operation and if I could actually have a loop or not.
I would think you could have a loop, mine, a town of sorts, canal basin or port and a fire wood branch line. All in a very tight space. If its a rabbit warren layout YUK!! you could increase your run length considerably
Careful it could turn into a full pioneer railway complete with every thing you can think of
Some of the 2'6" gauge railways around the world where quite extensive and I am told narrow gauge can become quite addictive.
If the project goes ahead hope you will share it with us.
In the US, electric streetcars generally used standard gauge--although some used 3'6" gauge that had been standard for cable cars, like those in San Francisco, or Los Angeles, where the Los Angeles Railway's "Yellow Cars" used 3'6" gauge in part because their earlier cable system used that gauge, and partially to ensure the city of Los Angeles that their tracks could never be used to haul standard-gauge freight cars down city streets (as the standard gauge Pacific Electric did.) But I don't think there are any commercially available 3'6" gauge kits out there...
Narrow gauge doesn't necessarily use sharper curves than standard gauge locomotives (a lot depends on the equipment being run) although a lot of narrow gaugers modeling industrial lines like mining or logging railroads use small equipment with tight curves. Streetcars can operate on curves that would make narrow gaugers wince (a single-truck Birney streetcar in HO, standard gauge, will run on 6" curves.) Traction is a fun subset of the hobby for those who like sharp curves and urban settings!
mlehman Remember that's 12 by 17 inches folks. Yeah, it's easy to get sucked into another layout when they're so tiny...
Thanks for pointing that out. I’m usually careful about dimensions, but I guess in my haste I left out the most important part.
John Busby SleeperN06 Thanks I was just wondering how much room I would need to build a small mining operation and if I could actually have a loop or not. I would think you could have a loop, mine, a town of sorts, canal basin or port and a fire wood branch line. All in a very tight space. If its a rabbit warren layout YUK!! you could increase your run length considerably Careful it could turn into a full pioneer railway complete with every thing you can think of Some of the 2'6" gauge railways around the world where quite extensive and I am told narrow gauge can become quite addictive. If the project goes ahead hope you will share it with us. regards John
It’s funny because I was actually more interested in a street car when I stumbled upon the BCH locos and cars set. I have been thinking of something to put on top of a mountain where I have tunnels below for my other trains for many, many years.
I actually bought both a Walthers Sawmill and a Glacier Gravel kit 6 or 7 years ago to put on top. I couldn’t decide on logging cars or Gondolas, but either way it always required more space than I had. Both kits are still in their boxes.
As far as the loop, I’m more into building and modeling than I am into operations especially something this small. So if it was to be operational, I guess I could use an auto reversing circuit to have it going up and down the track although I don’t know how well small narrow gauge gondolas can handle backing up on tight curves. It might be too much trouble.