I want to photograph HO locos and rolling stock from track level and at a 45 degree angle. This requires a good depth of field but what about the perspective? A telephoto would give a flat 2 dimensional effect and a wide angle would distort the actual shape of the print.
Am I correct in my thinking? Which lens is best. cost no object (I'm dreaming here.
73
Bruce in the Peg
Have you tried focus stacking software? It's free and just about the only way to get the same depth of field would be to use a wide angle lens and a very small f stop such as f/22. With a lens opening like that you'd need tons of light or shoot at a high ISO off a tripod.
Of course, using the free CombineZP program requires the use of a tripod also so that the camera remains absolutely still. But you can use your normal angle lens which would give you the most distortion free image.
I use it all the time.
Jarrell
Bruce, I would say it is a bit more complicated an issue than to get the "one" correct lens. I have 4 lenses in my collection and use them all for different reasons. The most used is my 17mm - 85mm. I also have a fixed 100 mm medium telephoto/macro lens. Very good for some shots, but not as useful as I thought it would be for model photography. I recently bought a 10mm - 22mm wide angle lens. Again there are shots that it is perfect for, but there is a bit of fisheye. I use Photoshop CS5.5 on my Mac and it has a correction that will remove much of the fisheye problem. It does have a great depth of field and can be stopped down to f/32 I believe (IIRC). Very useful for closeup shots with excellent depth of field. Like this one:
I second the suggestion of getting and using a good tripod. I also use a bean bag, a short section of 2x4, or any other way to firmly keep the camera from moving and shoot in AV mode. Also get a remote shutter release for your DSLR.
If you know any local pros talk to them about what you want to do. I am lucky to have a couple of friends who are fairly well known local photographers, one of which has won the top award given by the Professional Society of Photographers of New York State. They have been a great help to me while learning my second hobby in the MR hobby...
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
Back in the late '70s, Model Railroader had an article about making a pinhole aperture for an SLR lens. It's made from brass wire and thin brass sheet (see pic below). You have to unscrew the rear lens element, insert the pinhole aperture into the lens, and reinstall the lens element. I think he achieved an f-stop of something like f100, or close to it.
Steve S
What camera do you have or are considering? Most come with 18-55mm lenses. At 18mm they are quite capable of shooting what you want, just use the f/22 aperture. You do not need a macro lens, I've been shooting model railroad subjects for about 30 years without one, and not one of my 850+ published images was taken with a macro lens.
For extreme closeups, a wider lens can do magic, but you are talking about lenses in the $500.00 range. My favorite lens is a Tamron 11-18mm lens, use it mostly at 11 mm. Here's a shot on my HO scale modules:
I have quite a bit of info and examples on my website in my signature, check it out.
And contrary to what has been posted previously in this thread, no need to go to a photography website to get model railroad photography information, there are a lot of talented photographers who post on this one.
Good luck!
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Listen to Ray and RailPhotog on this, they know what they're talking about. When I don't use focus stacking software I lean heavily on a 15-30 mm wide angle zoom lens to get that extra depth of field. I've been in photography for over 45 years. Model photography, if done well... is a whole 'nuther hobby within a hobby.
So, to answer your question as directly as I can, and I think you already know this by the information you gave in your post, you'll get the best depth of field with a wide angle lens and by using a small lens opening on that lens.
Don't forget Helicon Focus software for stacking focus. It's not too pricey and can stand alone. Doug
You can't go wrong with Bob/Railphotogs advice. Of equal importance to the lens is high quality lighting. These need not be expensive. You could get everything you need (2 reflectors, two tungsen bulbs) for less than thirty bucks. I suggest you read Rob Enrico's lighting sidebar in the 2006 issue of Model Railroad Planning for more detail on the subject. If money is no object I highly recommend the "TotaLites". Expensive but effective.
Lance
Visit Miami's Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
I have a 40mm lens for my Nikon, which has the APC size sensor, so it is equivalent to about 60mm on a full size sensor. It is sold as a "portrait" lens, but it can focus down to 6". It also forces you to move the camera to compose the shot.
I have had success with it, but the real secret is lighting. Lots of light makes it easier.
I did some shooting at a modular setup in January, with ambient lighting and a zoom lens. Exposure time might have been 10 seconds or more, but it worked. I could set up the picture, close down the iris , and open the shutter. Many of the pictures turned out well. People walking in front of the camera didn't even appear in the picture. (Still amazed by how many people don't understand that the lens is pointed at the subject and still walk between you and the subject.)
Remember, the closer you get to your subject the less depth of field you have. Most wide angle lenses have very little distortion unless they'er a Fish eye lens. Read the manual of your camera to see if you can take muliple shots on one frame. The DSLR I have has this feature although I haven't tried it yet. Joe
I
Kingofweathering It is NOT complicated answer otherwise this type of question should NOT be asked on a train forum because it is a huge loaded question filled with many opinion answers so you would REALLY need to get the answer from a professional at a Best Buy or other popular Photo center. So here is the CORRECT answer - YOU NEED A MACRO LENS. THE END
It is NOT complicated answer otherwise this type of question should NOT be asked on a train forum because it is a huge loaded question filled with many opinion answers so you would REALLY need to get the answer from a professional at a Best Buy or other popular Photo center. So here is the CORRECT answer - YOU NEED A MACRO LENS. THE END
I agree, you need a macro lens. Or rather YOU need one. For those of us who take photos of our layout with any depth of field, you can use pretty much any lens, including the kit lenses you get with a camera or the one found on any compact/bridge camera.
A macro lens has too shallow a focal plane. They are great for imaging a bee or the petals of a flat flower, but unless you are prepared to use image-stacking software, you are not going to get great depth of field.
Try this with a macro lens: (Canon Powershot A710is at F8, seven stacked images using Combine ZM.)
Crandell
I agree with Crandell, except I haven't yet figured out how to use photo stacking. This shot was taken with a Panasonic DMC-FZ7 at f8. DJ.
This is what I can tell you
A 50mm lens (AKA Prime Lens) is about as close as it gets to a human eye in terms with width perception (Viewing angle). These are also called, "Prime" lenses.
However this would only provide a correct sizing of objects based on distance. (Less flat then a zoom, but not as blown out of proportion for fish eye/wide angle). The total viewing box (ie: Fulstrum)...how far left and right you can see is about 2/3 that of a normal 35mm film camera, mainly because the imaging sensor is smaller then a 35mm film plate by 1/3.
You can get a much deeper depth of field by using a high f-stop (higher numbers like f20). This means more objects will be in focus from front to rear. This can usually be adjusted by putting the camera in "A" mode (short for Apature mode) on Nikons. Next put the camera in spot point focus mode and point it towards the front 1/3rd of your frame distance wise. Lock the focus, then reset your camera on the center of your frame. Hit the camera timer button and take the photo. Take your hands off the camera and wait for the camera to take the picture before touching it again.
If you do this, you will need a tripod, as higher numbers = smaller light opening, which means longer exposure time.
I post horrible photos here, but only because I don't have an expansive layout, or take the time to create great photos when it comes to my models. Portraits, landscape photos are where I take my time. I'm sure Grampy, Railphotog, Selector, and a few others will offer some really valuable tips.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
As I noted in my previous post, there's a whole load of info I've gathered on my website in my signature. It's all geared towards taking model railroad photos and nothing else.
Kingofweathering It is NOT complicated answer otherwise this type of question should NOT be asked on a train forum because it is a huge loaded question filled with many opinion answers so you would REALLY need to get the answer from a professional at a Best Buy or other popular Photo center. So here is the CORRECT answer - YOU NEED A MACRO LENS. THE END Isn't that an oxymoron?
Railphotog As I noted in my previous post, there's a whole load of info I've gathered on my website in my signature. It's all geared towards taking model railroad photos and nothing else.
I have found Bob's site to be very helpful for taking model rr pictures. I highly recommend it.
It's a real service to the hobby.
Thanks Bob.
Paul
rayw46Kingofweatheringget the answer from a professional at a Best BuyIsn't that an oxymoron?
Kingofweatheringget the answer from a professional at a Best Buy
I have yet to see a 'professional' at any big lot type store I've to, Best Buy included. That also goes for Wal-Mart and Radio Shack.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
If you want proper advice on cameras, you go to a camera store. They not only have the knowledge, but they have a full product line too.
The big box stores are only interested in selling you what they have on the shelf, and they don't bother stocking anything more than what is cheap and popular, because they are in the business of shifting boxes. The more the better. That is what they want to do.
A camera store will have knowledgable staff, and they can help you get the right product for your needs. You might pay a little more, but you will probably save money in the long term by spending it wisely.
betamax If you want proper advice on cameras, you go to a camera store. They not only have the knowledge, but they have a full product line too. A camera store will have knowledgable staff, and they can help you get the right product for your needs. You might pay a little more, but you will probably save money in the long term by spending it wisely.
Betamax! Absolutely correct sir! Also if you have have a problem they will take care of it at the Camera Store. In talking to local professional photographers around here where I live that is one of the first items they impressed on me.
Wow, somebody had a bad day.
Dumont462 Kingofweathering It is NOT complicated answer otherwise this type of question should NOT be asked on a train forum because it is a huge loaded question filled with many opinion answers so you would REALLY need to get the answer from a professional at a Best Buy or other popular Photo center. So here is the CORRECT answer - YOU NEED A MACRO LENS. THE END Wow, somebody had a bad day.
Based on his usual posts, that's the only kind he has. Going through puberty is tough, apparently.
alco_fanBased on his usual posts, that's the only kind he has. Going through puberty is tough, apparently.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
DigitalGriffin A 50mm lens (AKA Prime Lens) is about as close as it gets to a human eye in terms with width perception (Viewing angle). These are also called, "Prime" lenses.
Not to nitpick, but you're not totally correct. A 50mm lens is roughly equivalent to the human eye on a full-frame camera, which are almost unheard of in the consumer and prosumer market. Your everyday DSLR is what's called a crop-sensor, and your 50mm lens is more like 85mm. This is VERY tight when you're shooting scale models and I don't recommend it. On a crop-sensor, a 30mm lens is pretty close to your natural field of view.
Also, prime lenses can be any focal length, not just 50mm. It just refers to a lens with a fixed focal length, whether that's 30mm, 50mm or 85mm. If it can't zoom, it's a prime lens.
I personally prefer focal lengths on the wide end of things when shooting my trains. Sure, there's (unnoticeable) distortion, but to shoot with a tighter focal length my aisles would have to be about ten feet wider!
Also, lighting is incredibly important. Poor lighting will kill any photo. Rather than shooting with flash, stick to powerful constant lights because you can see what you're doing in real time. I'm a full-time professional photographer and I still use a pair of powerful (300 watt equivalent) lights rather than my flash kit to shoot my trains.
The only way to get a 45 degree photo, like you were at trackside, is with a first surface mirror. You should build a box to place the camera upon facing downward and mount the mirror in the box you made. It reflects the model, which will come out 180 degrees backward. Then photo stacking software from Combine ZM, which is free on the internet from Wild Blue Yonder, Alan Hadley of the UK. Then I used Adobe Elements to flip the photo 180 degrees and to enhance it. My photos are on the web . Look up "Jim Fite Model RR Photos". They were published in Model Railroader which uploaded them to the web . I can't download photos any more. A lens with a 2x teleconverter will give a lot of depth of field because it moves you farther from the model whih increases DOF.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=xx9AOAL5&id=1102C05030CE8FA320EB09D0EE4A9837C41EF29B&thid=OIP.xx9AOAL5ZmH-7KezAXZVJAHaEg&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.c71f403802f96661feeca7b301765524%3frik%3dm%252fIexDeYSu7QCQ%26riu%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fcs.trains.com%252fcfs-file.ashx%252f__key%252ftelligent-evolution-components-attachments%252f13-755-00-00-02-28-95-08%252fUP-Greyhound-1_2D00_5--Oct-11-3-diopters-modified-PE6-transformed.jpg%26ehk%3d4iINVvA9m18KmZhGFj%252f1pEWCfGK84%252bMxpj3Tsps%252b%252f4I%253d%26risl%3d%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=1124&expw=1845&q=jim+fite+model+railroad+photos&simid=608008503229099141&FORM=IRPRST&ck=364835E9F77B5F53BDCDF4C68B2C9321&selectedIndex=1&itb=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0 This is a photo made with the mirror. Click on the link or paste it. Not all of my photos are with the mirror. A Minolta A1 digital camera was used on all my photos.
A Vivitar 2x macro teleconverter is a great way to get close for close ups, and to move farther from the model. The farther away you are, the more depth of field. f22-->f45. The Vivitars are cheap on ebay and are great. Mine is Nikon mount. The 2x Macro covnverter has 7 elements and will go 1:1.
This is a 10 year old thread!
50mm is considered a "standard" lens for most photographers. It's about the same viewing angle as the human eye with full frame cameras. It has good bokah at low f-stop numbers (fast lens). You would need to give us the mfg and model of the camera to make recs. But you can find some very reasonable Tamron 50mm on the cheap for most bodies.Most MRR's use even wider lenses. (<50mm) You can correct barrel disortion in software easy enough. (with some loss of detail) But the best way to avoid barrel distortion is not sit so close to your subjects.
dennis461 This is a 10 year old thread!
Rich
Alton Junction
Optical physics hasn't changed in 10 years