Pot of coffee for Newbies

[NZRMac]

Hey

Do you guys lay track on homasote board (we call it pinex) or on plywood with track underlay foam or sumfin else??

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ken Mackay

REX

How do you check the grade??

I Cheat! [:D]
Nah! I used 3dPlan It software to design my layout. When I want a rise of say 3" between point A to B, it will tell me the % of rise. If it is a greater % than I want, I know that I have to increase the distance of the incline.

After the incline is set the way I want, then I can click anywhere on the track and it will tell me the elevation at that point. I have open grid so I do this at each 16" centered joist or other that I will attach a riser.

The actual work is easy with this information and you can easily see the amount of inches needed in the rise per riser and can adjust for different distances. Curves are very tricky and I usually have to tweak them some. This is where I screwed up as stated in the above post.

I highly recommend 3dPlan It. You can continuously make changes without any trouble and I have made many as I get better ideas. If the plan says its a 24 1/8" radius and 2 3/16" from the other track---you can take it to the Bank.[:)]

Teffy's method is the way to go if you don;t have this software.

REX

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea

Railroading_Brit,

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know that about traction tires. I'll take a look at the Bachman Spec.4-8-2 drivers and see if there's a coating. Can you sand the drivers and remove this or would it scratch them too bad??

I think this would probably scratch them badly - I've not tried this approach as I didn't at first realise that this coating existed - I was puzzled why the loco had more haulage ability after a few hours running until I heard/saw someone else comment on this and say that they'd found this coating. I also had problems with out-of-gauge wheelsets and incorrect quartering on this loco, both might be worth checking out as a potential cause. Hope something here is of help!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ken Mackay

REX

How do you check the grade??

Good Morning Ken:

I use a 24" plastic level from Lowes Home Improvement; 1) prop the level up level with the high end on the track, 2) measure the distance from the level to the track on the low end, 3) divide the height by 24, 4) multiply the answer by 100, 5) percent of grade. Say that when you get the leveling all done and the measurement is 1/2 inch, divide .5 by 24 and that equales .0208333. When multiplied by 100 it comes out to 2.083333, that means that for all practial discussion you have a 2% grade. You can use a 12" level just take step "3" and divide by 12 instead of 24. All measurements have to be in the same measurement IE: inches, feet, mm, or whatever. When I lay sub roadbed I use two pieces of cork roadbed under the down side of the level and it gives me pretty close to a 2 % grade.

Have a blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY
Bob

[NZRMac]

REX

How do you check the grade??

[NZRMac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ken Mackay

I'm a Newbie!! I've started an HO layout, not used any plans, have been careful with my turns, but is 15" radius turns too tight? The loco (8 wheel drive unknowen brand) runs ok .

Hi Me again

I've pulled my layout to bits and started again! This time it's 12' by 8' in a u shape with room for two 24" radius u turns at each end I've used Right Track to make sure it all fits.

I wanted to run larger steam locos and modern diesel so I thought might as make it right from the get- go.
I've been reading the latest Model Railroader mag and just realised what the 2-10-4 etc means!!
The number of wheels!! amazing thanks for your input the other day guys you put me on the right TRACK.

[rexhea]

Trainnut1250,

This is a good 'Watch It!!" for Newbies.

Just made a quick check of the grade in question. [oops] I believe that I screwed up with the risers elevating this curve.

The curve is the start of a long grade. The overall grade is 2.48%, but in the curve it appears [:I] to be closer to 3%. I believe I can adjust this out by starting the grade sooner and take some of the % rise out of the curve section.

This area runs on the back side and has no scenery so it shouldn't be too hard. That's one of the plus's of open grid. When I started the layout design, I had it set that I wouldn't go over 2%. Well, I talked myself out of it .[xx(]

I haven't noticed this before because the grade is part of a loop connecting my 2nd level to my 3d and I always ran the other direction. That grade is only 2%.

If your BLI cab forward is like my BLI 4-6-6-2, it will pull all of your rolling stock up 2%. [tup][(-D]

Thanks for the steering.

REX

[Anonymous]

Check the grade again. it might be more than 2.5%. Even 2.5% is considered steep by prototype standards. Many modelers try to avoid anything over 2.0%. Remember that curves intensify the grade, so your equivalent may be closer to 3% depending on the radius. Metal wheels and free rolling trucks help, as well as extra weight in the loco...Other wise it is double heading...

BTW: My Spectrum 2-8-0 has no problem pulling 10 cars up 2%
My BLI Cab forward will pull at least 20 cars up 2%. It's pretty heavy...

Guy

[rexhea]

Railroading_Brit,

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know that about traction tires. I'll take a look at the Bachman Spec.4-8-2 drivers and see if there's a coating. Can you sand the drivers and remove this or would it scratch them too bad??

The BLI is new and it may have oil on the drivers since I lubed the drive mechanism. They both do good on other grades. It's just this one d...n spot!

Yes, I use DCC and using a helper may be the answer if all else fails. I'll have to make some track changes to accommodate the loco. But, what the heck! That's what it's all about.

Thanks again,
REX

[AggroJones]

Tip for newbies......

1. Chemically blackening sintered iron wheel, such as on an Athearn locomotive, will increase horsepower by about 25%.

2. Always use metal wheels on rolling stock.

3. Never use brass track. You'll have a helluva time keeping it clean. Its garbage.

4. Steam locomotives don't like #4 turnouts.

[Anonymous]

I'd regard traction tyres as a last resort - they tend to attract dirt and gunge and often result in wobbly locos if not fitted "just right". A better idea (to my mind) would be to either add ballast weight to the locos (I use lead sheet, though there's been a few threads about what material to use over the past few months - other have suggested lead shot, pennies, etc). Just be careful not to over-do it to the extent that the loco burns out rather than slipping with a heavy train - you'll probably find that you reach the point where there's no more space for extra weight before this happens. Another idea (which would be very cool from an operational viewpoint), If your're running DCC, consider using helpers on this section of your layout - easier with DCC than with straight DC.

Just a thought about the Bachmann loco - I have one of their British-outline OO scale steamers (a "Jubilee" class 4-6-0 in LMS livery). I found this had very poor haulage ability when new, but improved with running - there was some sort of coating on the wheel treads that made them slip far more easily. I found this wore off after a few hours, and it'll now handle prototypical length trains. If all their locos have this coating (probably something to do with the chemical blackening), this might also be causing the problem. Hope something here is of help!

[rexhea]

Hey, fellow Newbies and Masters. The Coffee is fresh. Have a cup.

Question: I have a curved grade that is about 2.5. My Bachman 4-8-2 and BLI 2-8-2 slip pulling more than 6 cars. What can I do to be able and pull about 10 or more?? Traction Tires??

[RedLeader]

Hey Ken.

There are a couple of articles in MR about removable sections. I think one is titiled "No more duck unders" you can look for it at the mag index.

[krump]

Thanks for the Tips Rex and Railroading Brit. I'll have to go look for that book and add it to my library.
cheers

[Anonymous]

lets get some layout pics here!

[NZRMac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ken Mackay

I'm a Newbie!! I've started an HO layout, not used any plans, have been careful with my turns, but is 15" radius turns too tight? The loco (8 wheel drive unknowen brand) runs ok .

Thanks Chaps
The only 15" turn is going to be hidden so mayby I'll get away with it. The rest I can relay as Im still laying and testing as I go. Can anybody show me details on a removable section (for access to the middle).
Thanks Ken

[Anonymous]

heres the sugar

[darth9x9]

Could someone please pass the sugar?

BC

[Anonymous]

I agree with Rex's advice about keeping the wiring simple to begin with - build your layout wiring up over time, and keep it neat - one useful trick I've found is to use self-adhesive copper tape stuck to the underside of the board instead of long pieces of wire (this would probably work very well for DCC power buses too, though I've not tried it). This stuff needs no clips, staples, etc to stay under control, and you can just solder wires to it to make any connections rather than having to strip insulation to attach feeders. Just remember to use some insulating tape where one feed crosses another to prevent shorting, and avoid placing it where it can contact anything under the layout (above rather than below cross-braces if possible, though this is probably easier to build in while at the benchwork stage. Gaffa or Duct Tape should work as a hard-wearing insulator if you have to go round or under any framing that might come into contact with something likely to cause a short). The advantage of this approach is that you're less likely to have an unexplained problem (assuming you use the layout on a regular basis), and if you do, fault finding is easier when faced with clear, ordered wiring.

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by krump


is 16 gauge appropriate? 14 gauge or 12? or am I way out - I need to have another look at Andy's book though.
a coffee and a read, that'll do it.
wiring can be a real discouragement (for me), so I'm getting ready for the challenge
cheers

Since you are considering DCC, Digitrax, "Big Book on DCC" is an excellent source of information. It gives a very good discription of DCC, shows the differences between DC and DCC, and how to's for installation.

To answer your question on gauge (I assume you are talking about power bus that supplies the juice to track feeders. ) it depends on the max. total locos you will have running at the same time and their current draw, plus any lighting, controls, etc...thats coming off it and how long your bus length will be.

I used 12 guage on the underside of my layout from one end to the other. I tapped off it every 6 feet with the wire thats on the atlas wired track joiners. I think that they are 22 guage. I use 12 gauge for the bus mostly because of the length of the wire. Besides, what I need today may not be enough later on and the price isn't that much different. I believe most on the forum have said they use 14 or 12.

From"Big Book of DCC" page 42
The Table for 0-5 amps.
0 - 30' 18 gauge
30' - 50' 14 gauge
50' - 100' 12 gauge

The Table for 5-8 amps.
0' - 30' 16 gauge
30' - 50' 12 gauge
50' - 100' 12 gauge

REX

[willy6]

Again welcome Ken to a great hobby. I used 15" radius on first layout.It was to tight and I was limited to certain locomotives. That was one of my reasons for building a second layout. I donated my first to my Father-in-law.

[der5997]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ken Mackay

I'm a Newbie!! I've started an HO layout, not used any plans, have been careful with my turns, but is 15" radius turns too tight? The loco (8 wheel drive unknowen brand) runs ok .

Ken: Welcome. 15" radius in HO is tight to impossible, depending on what you are going to run. 18" is the "standard" minimum. That makes a complete circle 36 inches, and that's quite a lot of territory on a small layout space. That's why the temptation to reduce the radius. However, if you do go for 15 inches, even if the locos can make it round, and the cars aren't too long, (eg passenger cars, auto racks, stuff like that) they will LOOK wierd as they hang over the tracks in the curves, and gap widely looked at from the outside of the curve.

All that said, it's your road, and you can build what suits you. The main thing is to have fun[:D]

Good luck with this

[NZRMac]

I'm a Newbie!! I've started an HO layout, not used any plans, have been careful with my turns, but is 15" radius turns too tight? The loco (8 wheel drive unknowen brand) runs ok .

[krump]

I have the second edition of Andy's book also. Wiring is the biggest challenge for me at this point so I'm reading the book, asking local club members, and noting their thoughts as well as opinions on the forum. I'm planning for an Easy DCC system and need to save up for that - some of the other club members have switched to it in recent years and are familiar with it (I am not, yet) ... while I save up, there's benchwork to finish...
as far as the wiring goes though: I'd like to do basic wiring in black and white, then designated various wires colours to turnouts, accessories etc. I'd like to know what gauge of wire others have used and for what purpose?
is 16 gauge appropriate? 14 gauge or 12? or am I way out - I need to have another look at Andy's book though.
a coffee and a read, that'll do it.
wiring can be a real discouragement (for me), so I'm getting ready for the challenge
cheers

[rexhea]

Tom,
Take it from a retired electronics/electrical instructor when I say keep it simple. I assume you have no electrical background, but the books you've mentioned are still very easy to understand if you keep it simple. I'm not sure if your using DC or DCC, but the basics are very much alike. Don't worry about turnouts, blocks, signals, and etc... yet.
If you use DCC its even more simple.

Start with nothing more than powering your track. Get a handle on that before anything else. You can still install your turnouts, just wait to power them. Powering your track is like your car where you have to make sure Positive goes to one side and Negative to the other and not get them crossed. This is true with both DC (neg/pos) and DCC (a/b).

Once you have accomplished the power then study the ways you can control your turnouts or reverse loops or whatever. The point is that it can easily be overwhelming if you jump ahead to fast. You can always install connections and controls later. I have been the electronic/elecrical field for over 40 years, but I still take it slow and easy.
I hope this helps you a little.[:)]
REX

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by der5997
tstage: Is one of your books "how to WIRE your model railroad" by Linn Westcott?

John,

Currently I've been slowly plodding through Easy Model Railroad Wiring SECOND ADDITION by Andy Sperandeo. I just started it. It's been a couple of weeks since I've looked at it so I'll more than likely start from the beginning again to make sure that I don't miss anything. It's been good so far but it still gets thick rather quickly. I think I'll just have to get used to "plodding".

I did try the ATLAS wiring book. As I read through it, I had to keep flipping back to earlier sections to re-familiarize myself with things. The challenge is learning the terminology AND the wiring issues at the same time. Sometimes the writers either assume that you know a lot more about the topic or just can't seem to teach some good, basic concepts of electricity before moving onto the more sophisticated concepts on wiring. (I'm probably just a slow learner.)

Is the How To Wire Your Model Railroad by Linn Westcott book still available or updated? I really do want to LEARN wiring; NOT just know about it. Thanks for your help. [:)]

Tom

[Anonymous]

Advice from a newbie to newbies: Never try to get everything you want on your first layout.

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by willy6

I think to help out the newbies, we need to tell them the mistakes we made in our layouts and problems we encountered so they then learn. "WE LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES". A nd I'll start, do not use #4 turnouts if you plan to run 6 axle locomtives on your mainline.I like Maxwell House with a shot of milk.

willy6 has a great idea. So many times when you read how to do something (even with several sources) the between the lines is what keeps you from trouble.

Example: Position item A over C and solder.

What is not said: Follow their directions, but watch out. If you don't temporarily move B to the left you you will blow your house up[:D].

I don't know how many [oops] I've had because I didn't know what was between the lines. . Book knowledge is a starting point, but the working knowledge of others passed on to the novice is priceless. POUR IT ON, MASTERS or anyone else who has learned the hard way.

Oh yeah, willy6 using #4's in the wrong place was one of my [#oops].

REX

Got any Folgers? I'll have mine straight.

**I forgot to add a lesson: If you are using DCC friendly turnouts, not only check them mechanically before installation, but also electrically. I have installed and ballasted some only to find out the jumpers from frog straight rail to frog curved rail was open.[xx(]

[Anonymous]

cool i had pretty much the same question