Few weeks ago I spotted some MRC F7's at my LHS. I like the detail and see through grill but knew nothing about them. So I asked here, was pretty much told they where junk and not worth buying. Here is a link to the original question.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/207787.aspx
I was still interested in the engines, even with the very bad reviews. Sometimes I like a challenge. MSRP on the engines was $79.99 and my LHS had them at $69.99 each. With there age (made in 1999) and bad review's I asked Ken (owner of my LHS) if I could get a discount, heck he did not even know he still had them. Answer was yes on the discount and I took one home with me for the cost of a Athearn Blue Box Engine. Got the one running, so I picked up the F7 Ken was holding for me yesterday. Will review both at the same time.
Main complainant I read was the details where not correct. Well I am not a rivet counter and to be honest I cannot tell the differences between a F7 and a F9 unless I am looking at the box they came in!
Paint lines do look sharp and love the see through grills. Mine are Santa Fe Warbonnet Passenger Engines.
My engines came with MRC motor decoders and they where perfectly speed match straight out of the box! In other words, they did not run! I was pretty much expecting this so I was not mad. Good side is MRC uses a lot of wire on this decoder install, so I got free wire. Both engines ran on DC so if you run just DC you might be fine.
Decoder install was very easy. There was plenty of wires from the trucks, headlight and motor. So I did not have to add any wires unlike my PK 1000's. All but the + side on the motor was correctly color coded. I hard wired in Digitrax DH 123's.
Farrellaa hope you don't mind, but I am using some of the pictures you posted.
Shell attaches like a Athearn BB engine so it is easy to open. This is what is in side.
Green part is the PC board (I did not uses) and the cooper grid below it is the motor mount. There are 4 screws that screw into the motor mounts. Seems odd way of doing it but it works.
While I cannot swear to it, the motor looks to be a A-Line or a knock off of one.
It is easy to open the the trucks up, simple prying does the trick.
One of the odd things, is one of my engines gear's are the same color as the one posted by Farrell A and the other one gears are black? Wheels are not Nickel Plated but brass. So far they seem to stay clean just fine.
Engines weight in just a tad over 1 pound each. My first one dragged 20 fifty foot boxcars and a Train Line Tracking cleaning car with no problems up a 1.5 % grade. Not bad at all.
Motor draws .40 amps free wheeling in the chassis and stalls at .80 amps. Motor and drive train on the first is as quite as my PK engines. Second one has a slight high pitch whining sound, but it is getting quieter as I run it more.
Coupler pockets are easy to use and is held in places with a screw. I installed Kadee #5 on the front and Kadee #27's on the rear.
Both engines with the DH 123 decoder where pretty close to each other far as speed matched. One was faster but that is normal. Top speed is 98 scale MPH so they will do fine in Fast Passenger Services.
Head light, with there age I am not surprised by the fact they use a light bulb and not a LED. Odd part is the blub stand straight up and not pointed toward the lens of the headlight. Does lite the cab some but I kind of like that.
Pro's.
1 Got them at a very fair prices
2 Easy to install a decoder (plus if you get one with a MRC decoder you get free wire)
3 Pull very well
4 Love the see through grills on the side
5 They track well
6 Seems to have a good quality motor
7 1 is very quite (gray gears) black gear engine is making some noise but not bad
8 Ample room for a speaker. I planing on using a MRC Sound only Decoder.
OK there are Con's.
. 1 Front of the shell is to thin. When you turn on the headlight you can see light through the shell.
Easy fix, and I will do it later.
2 Hard to get on the rail's. I think it has to do with the way the side frames mount but not sure yet. But once's yo get them on the rails correctly they track fine.
3 Trucks rock's when you change directions. Well I cannot say that is a true Con. Might be MRC attempt to make the trucks follow uneven track better and has not caused any derailments. But the first time you see it, it seems odd.
Summary
If you are a Rivet Counter you may not like the MRC F7's. If I paid $70.00 and was counting on the MRC Decoder working I would be If I paid $70.00 and knew I had to install a decoder, I be OK with them but would like not to have to fix the shell where the light showed though.
If you can get one in the $50.00 range, I you will be tickled. Prices I got mine for? I am a very happy camper.
Look on E Bay, they do show up there.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
The original Intermountain F units had the same issue with the x-ray vision nose for the head lamp.
You did not mention the things that have kept me from purchasing these units through the years. I currently own zero. 1. To me it looks like the body sits about 3 scale inches too high off the trucks. That could account for the rocking that was described, but to me it makes it look Lionelish. 2. The mold mark around going from the nose of the unit up toward the cab side windows. I would have to sand that away before I could stand to look at the things. 3. The truck detail seems very crude. While you are impressed with the see through grills, there are some things on the truck that should also be more see-through. 4. On some of the units (this Santa Fe one seems to be one of them) the logos seem to be stickers or decals rather than being painted on. Once again very Lionelish.
I would have to get these into the $10-$20 range to consider getting them for play toys.
Ken, I am glad you are happy with them. I still plan to DCC mine. I have 1- NYC and 2- SF as you have and think they look pretty good, especially for the price (I only paid $30-$32 each on Ebay) and I think the detail is also pretty good. BTW, glad you could use my photos.
I found a good way to keep the headlight shining thru the lens; I cut a piece of styrene tube (about 3/16-1/4" dia) and glued it to the cab front and put the LED inside. The front of the tube is cut to just clear the back of the lens. Did this on my P2K E8's and will see it it works on the MRC's (plus some black paint inside the nose). Keep us posted on your reworking issues.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
I went back and read the original thread where it was thought that it might be a Kato clone drive. But after looking at your photo of the truck, that is definitely an Athearn or Proto 2000 clone. The wheels certainly look like Protos with there blackened copper (not brass) look to them. The engine having been made in China could have sourced their parts from the proto factory. The wheel gears look like ABS or gray Delrin/Acetal. The idler gears are probably Nylon (or thr Chinese equivalent and should be long lasting).. The motor, which I haven't seen, is probably sourced from somewhere else.
Anyone that bought one of MRC's ALCo C-420s might remember that MRC's Lima (Italy) built models was also an amalgum of parts. The old Lima updated body now with dynamic brakes, new all-metal frame with new Delrin handrails (instead of the old fat plastic ones), trucks borrowed from one of Lima's electric locos and finished off with the now famous Mashima (A-Line) motor. For it's time this was a good product, even with it's flaws, it ran very smooth, but was geared too fast and wouldn't play well with others and also had several demensional flaws as wel, ( When Rivarossi took over Lima, they replaced the motor with a slower RPM Faulhaber motor). It took another 20+ years for Alas to make a proper one. I updated mine with the Faulhaber motors and they're still running smooth after 20 years of quite regular use (now with decoders in them).
So, just 'cuz they're Frankenstein creations, doen't mean they can't last a long time.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Zephyr said " 1. To me it looks like the body sits about 3 scale inches too high off the trucks " Boy ypu have better eyes than me! What is that, 1 MM if that?
More than likely a engine that meets your needs would be 4 times than what I paid both engines and the decoders. (plus I got the extra wire off the MRC decoders ) Rivet Counters have there places in this hobby and glad they are there. Keeps the makers half way honest on details. When it comes to real old Mopar Cars, I am a rivet counter. Drives me nuts to see a 69 Roadrunner decal on a 68 Roadrunner. Then lets talk about 73 Cuda Mirrors on a 70 Cuda! What where they thinking?
But this is not serious hobby for myself. It is a fun hobby, and seeing my improperly detailed MRC F7A's dragging 50 cars puts a smile on my
Bob, glad your not mad I stole your pictures! Hum, do you happen to have a MRC Santa Fe B unit?
Rivet Counter won't like them. But the detail is better than the Stewart's, PK 1000's and the Athearn Blue Boxes I have.
Ken
Texas Zepher The original Intermountain F units had the same issue with the x-ray vision nose for the head lamp. You did not mention the things that have kept me from purchasing these units through the years. I currently own zero. 1. To me it looks like the body sits about 3 scale inches too high off the trucks. That could account for the rocking that was described, but to me it makes it look Lionelish. 2. The mold mark around going from the nose of the unit up toward the cab side windows. I would have to sand that away before I could stand to look at the things. 3. The truck detail seems very crude. While you are impressed with the see through grills, there are some things on the truck that should also be more see-through. 4. On some of the units (this Santa Fe one seems to be one of them) the logos seem to be stickers or decals rather than being painted on. Once again very Lionelish. I would have to get these into the $10-$20 range to consider getting them for play toys.
3 scale inches too high. you have got to be kidding.
cudaken Zephyr said " 1. To me it looks like the body sits about 3 scale inches too high off the trucks " Boy ypu have better eyes than me! What is that, 1 MM if that? More than likely a engine that meets your needs would be 4 times than what I paid both engines and the decoders.
More than likely a engine that meets your needs would be 4 times than what I paid both engines and the decoders.
Your having a laugh (as the Brits would say). Four times what you paid for both engines and the decoders would be what, about $130 or so? Lets see, I picked up an AB set of Genesis F3's for that much and they are universally considered to be the best HO F unit made to date.
When it comes to real old Mopar Cars, I am a rivet counter. Drives me nuts to see a 69 Roadrunner decal on a 68 Roadrunner. Then lets talk about 73 Cuda Mirrors on a 70 Cuda! What where they thinking?
Well see you are a rivit counter, but just not with trains, so you can't blame people who feel about their train hobby the way you do about your car hobby. Eh?
All things being equal, I prefer the Stewarts over the MRC given the availability and price you can likely get them at is simillar. The Stewart drive can't be beat and I like the shells - the only thing really appearing better are the see through air grills but I'm not all that fussed on them.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
cudaken Zephyr said " 1. To me it looks like the body sits about 3 scale inches too high off the trucks " Boy ypu have better eyes than me! What is that, 1 MM if that?
Jay, thank you for pointing out the fact the wheels are copper and not brass. I have about 10 hours on the first one and been running on some track that was not clean. Headlight is not flickering.
Rio Grand, I don't blame anyone for being a Rivet Counter. We both have our places in the hobby.Like I posted before my LHS has quite a few of Stewart's engines. If you want me to see what he has let me know. I will ship for him.
Zephyr To be honest about the body sitting a little high, maybe. My Athearn BB F7's look about the same (Jay may be right on there trucks being Athearn). My PK 1000 F3's do sit lower. I don't know if a F3 and a F7 should sit at the same height.
Do I think the original reviews a little hard on MRC. They run well, pull great and pretty quite. Most engines will have some drawbacks and these do. Like I said, if you can find them for $50.00 or less they are a good buy.
Thanks for the answers.
Ken; sorry I don't have any B units. I kept looking for one but they don't seem to be very common or maybe MRC didn't make any.
It's pretty obvious that MRC acquired locomotives from several different sources. I purchased one of the very first that was offered, and it was definitely a Walthers Trainline locomotive mechanism that came in a plain white box.
The only thing that seems to be common between all the different versions was the MRC decoder being dead on arrival.
When MRC stopped selling them, they were liquidated for $30 each regardless of whose mechanism was used, so a selling price of $70 is a bit unrealistic..
Ken, thanks about the Stewarts but considering my time period of 1965 - 1980's, an as such F units were in their final years. I currently own 17 Stewart F units, 4 Proto 2000 F units and 12 Genesis and don't anticipate needing anymore.
Based on the Stewarts I own, they run silky smooth like the KATO chassis they are, and the bodies are nicely proportioned. They do have mold lines on the nose sides similar to the MRC; depending on the Stewart, the mold lines can be more pronounced or very subtle. As for the see through griills, they do look more "jazzy" at first glance but somehow don't look quite right to me. The horns don't look quite right either, seems the paint is always chipped off on the examples I see and don't the horns have two mounting posts per horn and not one?
To be fair, the Stewarts have been accused of sitting a bit too high also on the trucks, and this is common to many model engines - often to give them a sharper turning radius. The Stewarts height can be fixed by removing the trucks and filing a nub down, but I haven't bothered because the slight height issue doesn't bother me - I don't think most people can really see 3-inches differene in HO scale. I recall the Bachmann Spectrum F40PH was listed in the review as being 9-inches too tall, and to me it was indeed noticable - what was one of many dimensional flaws that caused me to sell off my pair and replace them at the time with the better looking Walthers Trainline F40PH's.
I have never counted rivits, never, but I do look at fairly major features such as phase details, overall fidelity, does the model match the real thing in all the major visible ways, near prototype coupling distances and so on. Since trains cost a lot of money, I do pick and choose. As you commented, you are picky when it comes to cars - me? not to that level, nor do I have the cash to have a "car hobby" - I'm still trying to get to the point where I can afford a decen place to live in the exensive DC housing market.
Regardless, I think it is always worth having reviews of products so people can decide for themselves. Everyone has their own level of standard they want to satisfy, so the MRC F7A will probably satisfy some and not others. In the end, you only have to please yourself. Cheers.
Rio Grand, K-10 has other Stewart's engines in the same prices range.
Thanks for everyone's time answering rather Pro or Con.
3 inches may sound picky in HO but it is noticeable, especially coupled up with anothe ruinit that is correct height. The old AThearn BB Geeps were 6" too wide, that was noticeable without another to compare, the proportions don;t look right compared to prototype photos. Set a moder correct width unit next to one of those oldsters and it's REALLY obvious.
This coming from someone who is most definitely not a rivet counter, I tend to follow the 3 foot rule instead.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker 3 inches may sound picky in HO but it is noticeable, especially coupled up with anothe ruinit that is correct height. The old AThearn BB Geeps were 6" too wide, that was noticeable without another to compare, the proportions don;t look right compared to prototype photos. Set a model correct width unit next to one of those oldsters and it's REALLY obvious. --Randy
3 inches may sound picky in HO but it is noticeable, especially coupled up with anothe ruinit that is correct height. The old AThearn BB Geeps were 6" too wide, that was noticeable without another to compare, the proportions don;t look right compared to prototype photos. Set a model correct width unit next to one of those oldsters and it's REALLY obvious. --Randy
I agree that small deviations can be seen especailly in certain circumstances. For example, Bachman Plus made their F7A and B, and even in the MR review, they noted the A unit sat too high, among other issues, and the B unit was closer to the correct height. When you ran the A with the B, as we do, you could really see the difference between them, it was very noticable when you compared the two.
As for the 6-inch difference in the hoods of some of Athearns old blue box, notably the SD45 looked really fat - even at age 14 I noticed how fat the nose looked - aweful.
riogrande5761 As for the 6-inch difference in the hoods of some of Athearns old blue box, notably the SD45 looked really fat - even at age 14 I noticed how fat the nose looked - aweful.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
farrellaa Ken; sorry I don't have any B units. I kept looking for one but they don't seem to be very common or maybe MRC didn't make any. -Bob
It appears that MRC did produce B units in many flavors. Or at least they intended to as Walthers cataloged them. Possibly they were just vapor-ware. They started with Walthers item 500-34100 on up. If you put this number in the Walthers advanced search and search for all items including discontinued you'll find them.
Just a little up date. They now have around 20 hours on them and are still going strong! They will out pull my Athearn Super Weight F 7's. I have yet to have to clean the wheels.
X Ray body, well that has to be fixed.
Still happy with them Ken
Well I am pushing well over 100 hours and they are still running fine! One is still a little noisy, but still not a ton of racket.
I bought a pair of Pennsy A units direct from MRC while their last fire sale was on. Price per unit was $15.98 per unit. They did have a few B units avialable but in very limited road names.
I do not think I saw so many people bashing a model before. You would have thought it was a Bachmann product from the old days that so many people can just not get out of their mind.
I still have the Pennsy units and when they are parked next to the Stewart Pennsy's they make the detail on the Stewart's look almost toy like, due to the lack of fine detail.
I did prefer the Intermountain F units over all others.
However, I am still running in my set of Rapido FP9's, and I now have a new favorite.
But as Rapido is a relatively small player the FP9's are only available in limited roadnames. so they will never be purchased in large numbers in the USA. too bad, it is a fantastic engine. as are the Rapido budd cars, I have never seen detail done to the degree that Rapido has produced.
Timing is everything... Earlier today I took out my trusty old MRC Platinum New York Central F7A unit and assigned it to a small commuter train. It continues to run flawlessly after all these years. And it looks good doing it. Don't remember the actual cost but I think it was around $39.00 brand new. Well worth it for a locomotive has stood up to the test of time.
John R.
OK, they do sit a little high. Far as the seam on the nose, never saw it till I took the close up picture. Far as pulling power? Had 20 cars hooked up to them last night and I had a PK 2000 E-6 that would not take a command from my DCC system. Thought it might have dirty or be on a dirty section of track. MRC engines where able to push it, with there train still hooked up. Not bad for POS engines if you ask me!
cudaken OK, they do sit a little high. Far as the seam on the nose, never saw it till I took the close up picture. Far as pulling power? Had 20 cars hooked up to them last night and I had a PK 2000 E-6 that would not take a command from my DCC system. Thought it might have dirty or be on a dirty section of track. MRC engines where able to push it, with there train still hooked up. Not bad for POS engines if you ask me! Ken
Well Ken, ones mans POS is another mans treasure. If you are happy, no foul then!
It has been another 4 months and I still like them. I have yet to clean the wheels! Found the odd humming sound problem and I caused it! Left some screws out of the upper motor brace when I installed the decoder.
If my LHS still has the last one, I am buying it this Saturday and see if I can make a Athearn BB B shell fit it.
If you can find one and not a rivet counter, good engine for DCC for under $35.00.
I looked at a couple of SOO units back in the day. They were the worst rendition of the red/white scheme I have ever seen.
If your happy with yours that is all that matters.
Jim
If anyone has checked e-bay you will find a few of the MRC B units for sale. Note the variance in prices, a bunch of them are listed at $89.00