When I have mentioned in previous posts about the lack of kits available today, people invariably come back with go to Ebay; or, to a train show, alluding to their perceptions that kits are easy to find and readily available!
At EBAY: I just went through 10 pages of Athearn stuff on Ebay and have to state that although there are still Athearn Blue Box kits available, they are not as plentiful as people seem to think! Many are what I would consider over priced and many are partially built, so if I omit these, I found on 50 items per page X 10 pages = 500 items perused, there were around 50 kits available. Some pages went as high as 17 kits and some pages only had 2 to 3. So I take exception to the perception that the Athearn Blue Box kit is alive and well.
TRAIN SHOWS: I finally did attend one this spring, it was 120 miles away from where I live. That's O.K.! For me to drive to the closest good Hobby Shop is around 165 miles! I did find good deals there and bought 3 Accurail freight cars at the same price I used to pay for them in the late 90s, early 2000s! However, there is one train show (that one) that I would consider going to as the rest are simply to far away! Yes, I choose to live in rural America; so, it's my problem that Train Shows are not prevalent where I live!
I did not bring this up to be argumentative! It is simply the reality that I see!
Can we please keep any discussion as that, D-I-S-U-S-S-I-O-N? I'm tired of my posts being closed down because some of you can't play Fairly/Nicely!!!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Well, I'll admit I haven't been counting, but the last few train shows I've been to, Athearn bluebox and MDC/Roundhouse kits have been available and quite a few. Also, quite a few built kits as well.
Personally, I have started casually collecting MDC/Roundhouse Old Timer Kits (unbuilt) and have gotten 5 or 6 at the last 2 train shows I went to all at or under $10 - a couple for $5. I also bought 2 Roundhouse 4-4-2 kits at the last train show - 1 with open frame motor and 1 with can motor.
One thing that's nice about train shows is no shipping cost.
As for eBay, the kits are too expensive and the shipping just makes it worse.
But this is just a fun little, not too expensive sideline in the hobby for me and getting a good price is part of the fun of the hunt.
Enjoy
Paul
A few thoughts:
First Ebay - agreed, the selection of Blue Box kits on Ebay is hit or miss - like a lot of things on Ebay. But the truth about Ebay is that you just have to constantly watch for the items you are looking for. A LARGE percentage of Ebay sellers are still just people holding a nationwide yard sale.
Train Shows - I live here in the east, in the middle of train show mecca and still the selection of that stuff is thinning out - partly because it is simply thinning out, partly because I believe the train show thing as lost a lot of its prior excitement and is possibly even on the way out. Not that it will ever die completely, but I think the high water mark is past.
Prices - there is always a lot of talk on here about prices, everyone has their own ideas about "value". But the fact is that if retailers cannot make a profit, they will go out of business. I will politely repeat the idea that a 10 year old, "new old stock" item, that is not available elsewhere, in many ways has the same or greater value as the day it first showed up on the hobby shop shelf - do you want it or not - I have it for sale.
I still buy Blue Box kits, or Accurail kits, Proto2000 locos, or lots of other "new old stock" sorts of stuff when I find it - assuming it is on my want/need list. I don't buy "used", been on the layout, already assembled, kind of stuff.
I also buy a fair amount of "new release" stuff - but I don't preorder - not locos or rolling stock.
Keep this in mind, many of those train show type dealers, or Ebay part timers, only list/sell/set up at the show when they feel like it. They are not full time businesses and are not obligated to make their product always available to you. It is often hit or miss to find the guy who has what you want, at the moment he wants to sell it.
And, there might be some guy with 500 Athearn kits who decides tomorrow it is time to put them on EBAY - you just never know.
Sheldon
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I also feel the train show as we once knew will fade into the sunset as more manufacturers join the sell direct. club in the coming years..I suspect train shows will become the shows of the 60s-where modelers sold off their unwanted models.
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As far as buying from the use market to each his own but, I have bought lots of use locomotives and cars over the years at bargain basement prices and (knock on wood) never ended up with a lemon.
I still see hundreds of BB kit at shows as well as the old Bev-Bel/Athearn kits.As I mention before I notice the majority of those old kits and to a certain degree older P2K locomotives with worn boxes from being packed and unpacked.
Again I have seen rows of use Athearn cars with KDs for $ 5.00-7.00. and still they get passed over for the newer models.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
My personal choice in kits is really not Athearn Blue Box, although I've built plenty of them. I prefered MDC, and prefer Accurail, Branchline and C&BT Shops and others kits with a bit better detailing. I have super detailed Athearn kits and kit bashed their cupola caboose into N.P metal cabooses with good results.
Proto 2000, Intermountain and Red Caboose had great kits which appear to not be available as kits, anymore. Plainly put, I like to build my models! However, it looks like I will have to bite the bullet and buy one or two of Fox Valley Models RTR Wagon top B&O box cars as I find them so interesting! I also loved building locomotives; but, it appears there isn't any current manufacturers of kit locomotives.
NP2626 When I have mentioned in previous posts about the lack of kits available today, people invariably come back with go to Ebay; or, to a train show, alluding to their perceptions that kits are easy to find and readily available! TRAIN SHOWS: I finally did attend one this spring, it was 120 miles away from where I live. That's O.K.! For me to drive to the closest good Hobby Shop is around 165 miles! I did find good deals there and bought 3 Accurail freight cars at the same price I used to pay for them in the late 90s, early 2000s! However, there is one train show (that one) that I would consider going to as the rest are simply to far away! Yes, I choose to live in rural America; so, it's my problem that Train Shows are not prevalent where I live! I did not bring this up to be argumentative! It is simply the reality that I see! Can we please keep any discussion as that, D-I-S-U-S-S-I-O-N? I'm tired of my posts being closed down because some of you can't play Fairly/Nicely!!!
Right. In Syracuse where I used to live and now in the DC metro area where I've visited train shows in Chantilly, the ever popular Timonium show in Maryland and another show in Richmond. Athearn blue box, Accurail, Walthers, and many other kits are quite available and very often for good prices.
It sounds like you are limited in terms of choice by where you live, so it is what it is. That still does not mean there isn't a glut of modestly priced kits, it looks like however, that you don't have as easy an access to them. So my assertion that kits are easy to come by and readily available are absolutely true from all I have been able to tell. Now if I chose to live in Alaska or out in rural America, I think it is a "given" that your not going have access to all kinds of things which folks who live in high density popluation areas have? Its kinda of like saying, hey, we don't have stores that sell x here in the corn fields of Iowa, but you in Chicago or northern Virginia have plenty of X.
So in conclusion, you can't really complain you don't have access to a good supply of kits. By your own admission, you live in an area where the stuff isn't available. Just sayin.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Here in St Louis at the Boeing RR Club Swap Meet, I have found a good supply of blue box kits at the $5 to $8 range. One dealer had a good amount of Bevel blue box kits for $5. You can get built kits with KD's & metal wheels from $3 to $8 range. The Fall Swap Meet is on Saturday Sept. 5th.
Of all the current rolling stock manufacturers, Accurail is pretty much the only one still dedicated to making kits. All the others - except perhaps Branchline - have pretty much gone the RTR route.
According to a train show seller last year, Accurail tried RTR for a short time but eventually went back to their bread 'n butter: Providing good quality, reasonably priced, easy-to-assemble kits.
I, for one, am more than glad to support the fine folks at Accurail in this respect. And I'm thankful that my LHS is still in the market of selling them. It is a sad thing to see that this part of our hobby is dwindling in interest.
I've mentioned this before on the forum here. For those of you still enjoying his aspect of the hobby, take a little time and send a kind greeting to Accurail (or other kit builders); letting them know how much you appreciate their efforts in providing us with kits. I've always gotten a very kind response from them in the past and I know that they truly appreciate the encouragement.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I don't often go to train shows, but I saw lots of Athearn Blue box stuff at one which I did attend last Fall. The two hobby shops at which I deal often have them on their "used" shelves, sometimes used and other times unbuilt and still in the box, and at both the show and shops, at reasonable prices.
I picked up eight "used" Athearn boxcars, all at $5.00 or less, and re-worked them into this:
This could have been inexpensive modelling, but with new ends and doors from Tichy, Central Valley floors and underframes, Proto National B-1 trucks, and Viking roofs from DesPlaines Hobbies, the original savings were sorta whittled away. I did get quite a bit of modelling pleasure, though, as the project included removing about 6"(HO) from between the top of the cars' sides and the rivet strip at the eaves. With the project started in January and finished only a couple of nights ago, lotsa "bang for the buck".
The whole story on these and several other "bargain" cars can be seen HERE.
Wayne
NP2626 My personal choice in kits is really not Athearn Blue Box, although I've built plenty of them. I prefered MDC, and prefer Accurail, Branchline and C&BT Shops and others kits with a bit better detailing. I have super detailed Athearn kits and kit bashed their cupola caboose into N.P metal cabooses with good results. Proto 2000, Intermountain and Red Caboose had great kits which appear to not be available as kits, anymore. Plainly put, I like to build my models! However, it looks like I will have to bite the bullet and buy one or two of Fox Valley Models RTR Wagon top B&O box cars as I find them so interesting! I also loved building locomotives; but, it appears there isn't any current manufacturers of kit locomotives.
Okay, so you don't "really" want Athearn Blue box, but you do want e.g. Accurail or Branchline kits.
Which are fairly easy to find. Here is e.g. a search for H0 scale freight cars at MB Klein looking for the word "kit": http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/HO-Scale-Freight-Cars-s/1462.htm?searching=Y&sort=3&cat=1462&search=kit&show=300&page=1
The results (which run to three pages, 300 results to the page) shows tons of Atlas Branchline kits, Accurail Kits, some Bowser kits and so on and so forth ...
Smile, Stein
tstageAccording to a train show seller last year, Accurail tried RTR for a short time but eventually went back to their bread 'n butter: Providing good quality, reasonably priced, easy-to-assemble kits.
Accurail can be commended for sticking to their niche, but my guess is their RTR line perhaps wasn't as successful as others such as Athearn's or other brands because Accurail didn't upgrade the rolling stock significantly to make the extra cost worth it to the average customer. The only RTR Accurail I've gotten so far are the autoracks, and to me it is worth buyting the vs. building them as they are not "easy" or straight forward to the amature. Of all the kits that are available, I have to say that most of Accurails kits are very easy to build and there is little incentive to buy a RTR version because of this.
AFAIK, the RTR versions did not have a vastly superior paint job, where I can say many of Athearns former kit cars have greatly improved paint jobs and whats more, Athearn has upgraded the tooling of many former blue box and MDC cars as well as added new freight cars which are quite nicely rendered in the RTR line - IMO, this is why the Athearn RTR line IS so successful and why the bb kits have suffered by comparison by the customers. I assume it is the purchasing habits that have caused the companies to switch to RTR as a rule, Accural being one of the biggest exceptions, but not without reason.
I too am happy to see Accurail remain successful at it's niche. On the other hand, I am also happy that we have had so many successful and very nice RTR cars on the market over the past 10 years. I think the only people who are sad are the minority who prefer to build kits and turn their noses up at the "collector" or the person who is not a "real modeler" because they buy RTR. All of this continued hand wringing over how sad it is is a moot point, because it is the spending habits that have been driving the market - thats just common sense that the manufacturers are going to follow the money trail. Thats not a bad thing, "it's just good business" to quote Pirates of the Carabean movie line.
I've mentioned this before on the forum here. For those of you still enjoying his aspect of the hobby, take a little time and send a kind greeting to Accurail (or other kit builders); letting them know how much you appreciate their efforts in providing us with kits. I've always gotten a very kind response from them in the past and I know that they truly appreciate the encouragement. Tom
I agree, and I am glad that Accurail has found it good business to remain in their niche. I would like to find an excuse to buy more of their freight car kits, but I do still have a back log of kits (like so many others) that I need to work my way through still. It is because I have a large back log of kits, that I am greatful that there have been a lot of RTR on the market, however.
After a year of being back into the hobby, I would like to say Accurail seems to be a good company, with a good idea. I do have a problem though. Accurail tends to be the one that's fits my price range the best.
Here in lies the problem......I model the late 80s Early 90s. 80% of what Accurail sales is designed for layouts set in the Pre-1970s so a lot of their products don't fit. I really do wished they'd make kits for the more modern modelers
Good point David, most of Accurails rolling stock is more 50's thru early 70's oriented.
For 80's, Atlas definitely ExactRail and Athearn as well.
DavidH66 Here in lies the problem......I model the late 80s Early 90s. 80% of what Accurail sales is designed for layouts set in the Pre-1970s so a lot of their products don't fit. I really do wished they'd make kits for the more modern modelers
Point taken, David. But...what percentage of that pre-70s era rolling stock would one still reasonably find operating in the late 80s/early 90s? - i.e. albeit faded and perhaps banged up somewhat.
Hi!
Ahhh, Athearn BB kits - a mainstay of the hobby for me since the very early '60s. With KDs and metal wheelsets and Dull-Cote, they are excellent runners and look pretty good (IMHO).
Beginning in 1999, I acquired literally hundreds of the Athearn (and Athearn derived) kits, as well as Accurail, Walthers, and others. I confess I went overboard, topping 650 cars - mostly still in kit form - at one time. In 2007 I began selling off the cars on Ebay, and am now down to just under 300.
While the BB kits are no longer made, I can safely say that there are a number of folks out there that have done are are doing what I did - amassing all the cars that they halfway like.
And, in that regard, I can say that sooner or later, a good portion of those cars will find their way on Ebay (or other auction format).
If one is patient and does regular searches of Ebay, that special car will come up sooner or later.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
doctorwayneThis could have been inexpensive modelling, but with new ends and doors from Tichy, Central Valley floors and underframes, Proto National B-1 trucks, and Viking roofs from DesPlaines Hobbies, the original savings were sorta whittled away.
That seems somewhat akin to saying, "This is my grandfather's hammer. My dad replaced the head, and I replaced the handle." There's not much Blue Box left in those cars!
Jim
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
NP2626 When I have mentioned in previous posts about the lack of kits available today, people invariably come back with go to Ebay; or, to a train show, alluding to their perceptions that kits are easy to find and readily available! At EBAY:
At EBAY:
EBay listings are traditionally fewer in the summer than in the other months (and prices lower). With eBay, PayPal, and shipping costs, the person with perhaps 20+ Athearn kits to sell thinks carefully about his options. Just a few kits - put them on eBay and be done with it. A small eBay business - same thing. But when I had about 60 Roundhouse and Athearn kits to sell for my father, I did not sell them singly, and I did not sell them during the summer.
TRAIN SHOWS:
I don't try to sell at train shows, only buy. I don't buy RTR at shows at all because the small size of my layout, roster, and wallet lends itself to kit building. I'm only buying onesies and twosies of items that fit my era - nothing more modern than Roundhouse Old Timer kits. With those conditions, I typically find a couple of dealers at every show I attend that have a few Central Valley, Silver Streak, and similar new old stock kits. These dealers typically have 40-50 Athearn and Roundhouse kits on display as well.
The one item that I sense that is starting to dry up are new old stock locomotive kits - unstarted Roundhouse, Mantua, Bowser steam engine kits are becoming much harder to find. I'll typically only see one or two at a show, compared to a couple of dozen a decade ago.
just my experiences
Fred W
mononguy63 ...There's not much Blue Box left in those cars!
...There's not much Blue Box left in those cars!
You're absolutely right, Jim, but the whole point of the exercise was to use-up those Athearn carbodies. They would have been just as expensive if I had used plain styrene as the basis for the sides - those Archer rivet decals aren't especially cheap. The Athearn trucks and frames were used on other cars.
fwright NP2626: When I have mentioned in previous posts about the lack of kits available today, people invariably come back with go to Ebay; or, to a train show, alluding to their perceptions that kits are easy to find and readily available! At EBAY: EBay listings are traditionally fewer in the summer than in the other months (and prices lower). With eBay, PayPal, and shipping costs, the person with perhaps 20+ Athearn kits to sell thinks carefully about his options. Just a few kits - put them on eBay and be done with it. A small eBay business - same thing. But when I had about 60 Roundhouse and Athearn kits to sell for my father, I did not sell them singly, and I did not sell them during the summer.
NP2626: When I have mentioned in previous posts about the lack of kits available today, people invariably come back with go to Ebay; or, to a train show, alluding to their perceptions that kits are easy to find and readily available! At EBAY:
The larger problem at hand is the higher selling fees on eBay and the increasing cost of shipping make selling $5-10 items like freight cars impractical.
Good point. Which is why in cases where shipping is a higher percentage of the cost of a model, it's better to buy a larger quantity to spread the cost over more models.
Cederwoodron, Carr's was the closest good hobby shop I alluded to earlier. I am actually closer to Fargo/Moorhead than Duluth and do get over there irregularly. I've never seen any advertizements for train shows over there in either Model Railroader; or, the NMRA magazine. Don't mean they don't have them, just means I haven't seen them. Winnipeg is around 275 miles from where I live, maybe more. Since train shows aren't that big on my list, I guess I'll attend the one in St. Cloud when I want to and not worry about it. Also, like I said, Athearn isn't really what I what anymore, anyway, as far as kits are concerned as I'm really happy with Accurail and the others that still produce kits!
There has to be some logic in this discussion! The reality is that Athearn hasn't produced kits in a long time! It only stands to reason that the Blue Box Kits are going to become less and less available. My point was that I think this reality is showing up in what is being offered on Ebay! It should also be showing up in train shows, too. If it isn't now, it eventually will be showing.
I guess if they don't make more, the unbuilt kits will generally disappear.
At train shows, I typically see built BB and MDC kits being sold more than unbuilt ones. I don't look on ebay for BB or MDC kits, but like other items, their availability will probably ebb and flow.
I think that the Athearn RTR rolling stock offers a reasonable trade off between upgrade and price. With better paint, wire details, wheels and couplers, and some new tooling, I think the upgrades are worth the increase in price over the kits.
I guess I've succumbed to the lure of the dark side. I used to buy BB and MDC kits and shunned the RTR's because of price. However, at a recent train show, somebody was selling well assembled kits, many with KD's, for $5. I passed. Typically, I would've bought 3 or 4, but lately I would prefer to use the money to buy one RTR.
I still like Accurail kits, but like others have mentioned, their modern offerings are limited, and I have enough 47' grain hoppers and 50' boxcars. If they would offer a 60 ft boxcar, I would buy some.
BTW, the BB kit offerings of modern rolling stock wasn't all that plentiful anyway.
- Douglas
NP2626 like I said, Athearn isn't really what I what anymore, anyway, as far as kits are concerned as I'm really happy with Accurail and the others that still produce kits!
like I said, Athearn isn't really what I what anymore, anyway, as far as kits are concerned as I'm really happy with Accurail and the others that still produce kits!
Thats fine of course but for those who are trying to copy say, a certain RR during a certain time period, I dont' exclude any maker if they offer freight cars which match appropriate specific cars. For example, if I'm modeling the west in the 1970's, the Evergreen PC&F box cars were present in freight trains, but wait, I'd have to exclude them if I had a religion that excluded buying RTR rolling stock. BTW, I know the RTR stuff costs a lot more and I too am not made of money - what that means is I don't buy very many of a lot of the latest stuff. So far, I only have one of each of each major type of Athearn Genesis Evergreen PC&F box car - a total of 2, but I am hoping to pick up one or two more before they are rare as hens teeth.
At any rate, for the most part I buy from most of the manufacturers where they make what I need, and that includes kits and RTR - it's just that most of what has been offered in the past 10 years new has generally been RTR, so I don't exclude them from my purchases. I buy Accurail in some cases because what they make fits my modeling needs too.
I generally don't go hunting for Athearn bb kits on Ebay, but I do see loads of them at the train shows I've attended in New York and Virginia in the past 5 years. Another reality is they will probably linger for a while longer but if for some reason the demand in the market returns, I also don't see any reason why Athearn wouldn't make them again as long as they sell and Athearn considers them profitable to make. If they try to sell more kits and the sales results are similar to recent, they will probably drop them again - it's all about demand and sales figures.
Doughless At train shows, I typically see built BB and MDC kits being sold more than unbuilt ones.
At train shows, I typically see built BB and MDC kits being sold more than unbuilt ones.
Heh? Aren't kits and unbuilt ones the same thing?
Absolutely. One example is the upgraded MDC Thrall coal gondolas. The ribs on the bottom pieces didn't line up properly with the ribs on the sides with the kits, but Athearn corrected this major flaw. The only way to correct this on the kit would be to chop the bottoms up and realign the ribs. For the 5-bay Ornter Rapid Discharge hoppers, Athearn tooled a new major part on the bottom for the bays to represent the mechanism AND added separate grab irons. Sweet! Not all of Athearns kits show such major improvements but some sure did!
No need to be ashamed of buying some good deals at train shows. I'd do the same thing and why not? As I said, I've got lots of kits in boxes to build if I need to get that good ol kit building feeling or grow some MR hair on my chest and be a "real" modeler. But I don't need to prove my manliness to anyone and the hobby is about enjoyment, not proving myself to a bunch of personalities behind computer screens.
There are certain LHS's that buy and sell used and collections. Many of them have BB kits. Many of these are sometimes in the back of the MRM. One around here is Rail and Spike.
Also, many of the vendors at the large trade shows here in the Southeast and East go to many different shows and so calling them can be helpful--that's what I have done in the past sometimes.
Your frustration is justified.
Richard
Kind of an interesting division of perceptions:
From my point of view, using the Walthers Catalog as a basis for what is available today, there is more from the modern era of freight cars, than the steam; or, steam/diesel transition; or, even early diesel eras.
As spoken by a respondent here, from a modern modelers perceptions, there is a distinct lack of kits for modern era freight cars!
I agree with both these perceptions!
It also points out that manufacturers probably feel more successful producing RTR equipment for modern era modelers and kits for steam/transition/early diesel modelers!
Like many of you like to point out: the market is determined by supply and demand! Glad I rairly have to join waiting lists to buy the things I want!
That last sentence above is a statement that makes me wonder about how the public is marketed to today?!?
NP2626 Kind of an interesting division of perceptions: From my point of view, using the Walthers Catalog as a basis for what is available today, there is more from the modern era of freight cars, than the steam; or, steam/diesel transition; or, even early diesel eras. As spoken by a respondent here, from a modern modelers perceptions, there is a distinct lack of kits for modern era freight cars! I agree with both these perceptions! It also points out that manufacturers probably feel more successful producing RTR equipment for modern era modelers and kits for steam/transition/early diesel modelers! Like many of you like to point out: the market is determined by supply and demand! Glad I rairly have to join waiting lists to buy the things I want! That last sentence above is a statement that makes me wonder about how the public is marketed to today?!?
Keep this in mind, In 1970 or 1998, the Walthers catalog was likely a good comprehensive "guide" to what was available in the market.
But after their parting of ways with Athearn and MDC, and the growth of direct marketing by other companies, the Walthers catalog has lost its status as the comprehensive list of what is or will be made.
Even companies like Bowser, who filled some of the void left by the Athearn departure, are not fully or well represented by the Walthers catalog.
Walthers is slowly and quietly pulling back from being a "distributor" and as retail shops need distributors less and less because other manufacturers go to self distribution like Athearn, Walthers is likely to only carry outside lines it finds profitable in its direct sales to consumers and more and more of their product is likely to be "Walthers" branded.
They are comming around full circle - Bruce started "making" his own products, then in the peak of the local hobby shop era, they became one of the biggest distributors, then they began buying up other manufacturers, now they are moving back to controlling the production of all or most of what they sell.
Boswer sells direct to any hobby shop - why would a shop buy bowser from Walthers? Heck, Bowser sells direct to customers - just pick up the phone and order what you want - that's what I do for their product lines. Some hobby shops discount Bowser products a little, but Walthers surely does not - wholesale or retail.
Anyway, my point is, even with the problems of overseas production, preorders, etc, the selection of product on the market today is WAY bigger than the Walthers catalog. And the Walthers catalog will continue to shrink in importance as the market reshapes itself.
One this topic of modeling eras and available product of each era - This is a problem for the manufacturers - as each new decade passes, more prototype exist to be modeled, and interest in older eras remains strong - so what does one choose to make?
And everyone's idea of "modern" or "old" is different - I model 1954, everything after that is "modern" to me.
It seems to me that Athearn for example has a wide range of products not only for my era, but for the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and present day. Sure, every piece is not available every minute - quess what, it was not all available evey minute back in the day either - the marketing and distribution was just different - it was still produced in batches just like now.
And I realize that some of you have become rather fussy about small details of prototype accuracy and exclude some of the more "generic" models from your modeling - regardless of era.
As some others have suggested, I too buy RTR, easy Blue Box type kits from various manufacturers, and craftsman kits of all sorts (plastic, resin, wood, metal) in an atempt to fill my roster with thr desired equipment.
We have never had it so good as we have for the last 10-15 years - the only question is were in the model train industry going from here?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Keep this in mind, In 1970 or 1998, the Walthers catalog was likely a good comprehensive "guide" to what was available in the market. But after their parting of ways with Athearn and MDC, and the growth of direct marketing by other companies, the Walthers catalog has lost its status as the comprehensive list of what is or will be made. Even companies like Bowser, who filled some of the void left by the Athearn departure, are not fully or well represented by the Walthers catalog. Walthers is slowly and quietly pulling back from being a "distributor" and as retail shops need distributors less and less because other manufacturers go to self distribution like Athearn, Walthers is likely to only carry outside lines it finds profitable in its direct sales to consumers and more and more of their product is likely to be "Walthers" branded. They are comming around full circle - Bruce started "making" his own products, then in the peak of the local hobby shop era, they became one of the biggest distributors, then they began buying up other manufacturers, now they are moving back to controlling the production of all or most of what they sell. Boswer sells direct to any hobby shop - why would a shop buy bowser from Walthers? Heck, Bowser sells direct to customers - just pick up the phone and order what you want - that's what I do for their product lines. Some hobby shops discount Bowser products a little, but Walthers surely does not - wholesale or retail. Anyway, my point is, even with the problems of overseas production, preorders, etc, the selection of product on the market today is WAY bigger than the Walthers catalog. And the Walthers catalog will continue to shrink in importance as the market reshapes itself. One this topic of modeling eras and available product of each era - This is a problem for the manufacturers - as each new decade passes, more prototype exist to be modeled, and interest in older eras remains strong - so what does one choose to make? And everyone's idea of "modern" or "old" is different - I model 1954, everything after that is "modern" to me. It seems to me that Athearn for example has a wide range of products not only for my era, but for the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and present day. Sure, every piece is not available every minute - quess what, it was not all available evey minute back in the day either - the marketing and distribution was just different - it was still produced in batches just like now. And I realize that some of you have become rather fussy about small details of prototype accuracy and exclude some of the more "generic" models from your modeling - regardless of era. As some others have suggested, I too buy RTR, easy Blue Box type kits from various manufacturers, and craftsman kits of all sorts (plastic, resin, wood, metal) in an atempt to fill my roster with thr desired equipment. We have never had it so good as we have for the last 10-15 years - the only question is were in the model train industry going from here? Sheldon
Excellent discussion, Sheldon, and I entirely agree with you. Even as recently as 2003 when I entered the HO scale side of the hobby, the Walthers catalog was the Bible of the Model Railroading Industry. Athearn's acquisition by Horizon Hobby started what I believe will eventually become the death spiral of the catalog. And why not, as Sheldon points out, Walthers has become much less a distributor and much more a manufacturer of structures, rolling stock, and locomotives.
Rich
Alton Junction
Sheldon: But after their parting of ways with Athearn and MDC, and the growth of direct marketing by other companies, the Walthers catalog has lost its status as the comprehensive list of what is or will be made.
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Sheldon,You may want to add the coming of the computer since Walthers catalog is on line and in a instant you can tell if the needed model is in stock..We have never had such readily available information before.
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Excellent question! I hope I live long enough to see the next change.
Actually, I don;t doubt my LHS buys their Bowser through Walters. The owner is cheap, but also lazy. The train department guys want to be a Digitrax dealer, but he won;t fill out the paperwork, so they buy Digitrax from Walthers and have to sell it for far more than the shops that buy direct. They've even told me - don;t bother, it's too expensive here. How this guy has remained in business for so long, and still does, is beyond me - although the train department is shrinking, they do a large volume of RC cars and planes.
Something about Accurail - their kits are made int he USA. So if you want to support a US operation instead of some mass production factory in China - Accurail is your brand. They happen to make plenty of kits that suit my era and needs, so I have - a lot of them. Some of their newer kits, while still retaining molded-on grabs, ave added other details, like slope sheet braces in the open hoppers, no other inexpensive plastic kit has those. The molded on details don;t bother me - I follow the 3-foot rule. CLose up, no denying the Kadee cars look much nicer - but I cn get 4 Accurail kits for the price of 1 Kadee RTR car, and from normal viewing distance there isn't a lot of difference.
Dunno about the BB kits on eBay - there seem to be plenty when I search for just one road name, mostly unbuilt. I am of course counting in the Bev-Bel variants.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.