Has there ever been a plastic model of a Great Northern steam engine released?
A few years ago I bought a special edition Mantua 4-4-2 in the Glacier Green livery, a found out a bit later that it was actually a Pennsylvania 4-4-2, which would explain the Belpaire firebox. I later obtained a few brass GN steamers including the GN 4-4-2 which looks nothing like the Mantua model.
How could the GN steamers be ignored for so long? I guess it must be as they are too unique looking with their unusual Belpaire fireboxes.
Ignored? You must be too young to remember all of the Tenshodo GN brass steam engines imported by PFM over the years. GN steam has been well covered. There is something like 46 brass engines/cars on eBay right now.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Although GN steam has been well-represented in brass, I can't think of any reasonably accurate versions in plastic or Zamac.Since Pennsy was probably the biggest user of Belpaire fireboxes (at least on this side of the Atlantic), and models of many of those locos have been offered in plastic or Zamac, you may find some that could be useful starting points for GN conversions.
Canadian National had some Mikados with Belpaire fireboxes, but the only models of which I'm aware are also brass:
Wayne
Don:
To my knowledge, no GN steam (at least prototypically correct) has been offered in plastic in HO scale. I know that an S-2 is (or was) available in N scale, but that's about all I can remember.
Brass, of course, is a totally different matter, but you weren't asking for brass.
BLI had announced an HO S-2 some years back in a brass 'hybrid' model, but I don't know whatever became of that model--the production of it seems to have been put on the back burner.
Too bad, too, because like you, I think GN steam is very handsome. I have several older Tenshodo models on my MR, used as 'run-throughs' off of the old WP/GN "High Line". I like them and they're very nice runners.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
IIRC, someone here said that one of the Rivarossi locomotives was supposed to be accurate. I can't recall which one though.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
The BLI USRA Heavy Mikado is accurate for an "as delivered" GN O-3 class engine - although technically by the time the "side facing goat" herald came along in 1936, most of the engines had had some changes made...so I guess replacing the herald with the older "front facing goat" would make it more correct. These engines primarily were used on the eastern end of the railroad, and were often seen in the Mesabi Iron Range, Duluth/Superior, and the Twin Cities.
The Spectrum 4-4-0 in GN livery is pretty close - the rear driver should be farther back for example. But overall it's pretty good.
If you wanted to do a mild "kitbash", it's occured to me that a Spectrum heavy Mountain with a vanderbilt tender would, if properly decorated, be pretty close to the GN's Mountains.
Actually a lot of GN engines didn't have belpaire boilers, particularly the 19th century engines.
Packer IIRC, someone here said that one of the Rivarossi locomotives was supposed to be accurate. I can't recall which one though.
Rivarossi offered their heavy USRA mike in the GN scheme. It was a fairly accurate model as the GN did take some of the USRA copies. This was when they were also offering a Ps-4 Southern heavy pacific with the elesco feedwater heater. While this was a good copy it did suffer from several discrepancies. The trailing truck was one of the standard Deltas offered on most of their models, while the real Ps-4's had the Cole/USRA trailing trucks. There were also major differences in the tender. This may also be where the GN model suffered as well.
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
twhite Don: To my knowledge, no GN steam (at least prototypically correct) has been offered in plastic in HO scale. I know that an S-2 is (or was) available in N scale, but that's about all I can remember. Brass, of course, is a totally different matter, but you weren't asking for brass. BLI had announced an HO S-2 some years back in a brass 'hybrid' model, but I don't know whatever became of that model--the production of it seems to have been put on the back burner. Too bad, too, because like you, I think GN steam is very handsome. I have several older Tenshodo models on my MR, used as 'run-throughs' off of the old WP/GN "High Line". I like them and they're very nice runners. Tom
I was on the BLI waiting list for the S2 Hybrid. Longest wait for a engine that never came.
don7Has there ever been a plastic model of a Great Northern steam engine released? How could the GN steamers be ignored for so long? I guess it must be as they are too unique looking with their unusual Belpaire fireboxes.
jrbernier Ignored? You must be too young to remember all of the Tenshodo GN brass steam engines imported by PFM over the years. GN steam has been well covered. There is something like 46 brass engines/cars on eBay right now. Jim
I agree, there are a variety of GN brass locos for sale from some reputable sellers, I saw 2 beautiful brass GN locos for @ $300 each, fully guaranteed, so there seems to be a lot available in brass which isn't a bad deal .
Actually the GN O-3 Mikados were USRA engines, not copies. Four of the heavy mikes went directly to the GN in April 1919. They later bought five more USRA heavy mikados that originally went to the El Paso & SouthWestern Ry. during the USRA time, but that road found them to be too heavy for their tracks.
"Steam Locomotives of the Great Northern Railway" by Middleton and Priebe is probably the best source of GN locomotive information.
GN owned six or eight wheel arrangements where at least some of the engines did not have Belpaire fireboxes.
wjstixGN owned six or eight wheel arrangements where at least some of the engines did not have Belpaire fireboxes.
Texas Zepher My research back when I thought I was going to model the GN indicated that any sizable GN steam era layout would look very strange without locomotives that have Belpaire fireboxes. Otherwise one is modeling the exception rather than the rule.
My research back when I thought I was going to model the GN indicated that any sizable GN steam era layout would look very strange without locomotives that have Belpaire fireboxes. Otherwise one is modeling the exception rather than the rule.
I'd agree with that. If I were going to model GN in the "steam era" I would probably fudge a little bit and model more the very early transition era...say circa 1941. By that time, GN had a fair number of diesel switchers, and had just received their first FT's which were used in both freight and passenger service. Those are readily available in plastic model form. Then maybe a couple of BLI USRA heavy mikados, and a Spectrum 4-4-0 for branchline trains, and at least you could start operating. Over time you could fill out the roster with brass engines, purchased over several years to help soften the blow of the cost of brass.
All I have to say is "welcome to the world of steam era modeling".
With rather limited exceptions, it is very difficult to assemble a reasonably correct road specific roster of any railroad that isn't PRR without using lots of brass models. There just weren't that many railroads that used standardized or "off the shelf" designs. That's one reason why in the past so many elected to "freelance" their own railroad. We hobbyists might prefer the articulated from road A and the 4-8-4 from road B and the 2-10-4 from road C.
Union Pacific: Sure, you can get Big Boys and Challengers, but the other engines are very unique to UP with relatively long front smokeboxes. The BLI 4-8-2 and brass hybrid 2-10-2 are not that common, and in the case of the 2-10-2 can cost more than many other brass models that are out there. Even the MTH 4-12-2 is now harder to find and in serious brass price territory now. Also, UP never owned a 2-6-0, so the cute little Bachmann 2-6-0 with sound and DCC is a "none such".
There are many more "none such" engines painted up for the other railroads.
Santa Fe: Excepting a few recently done 4-8-4's and 2-10-2's by BLI, and the Bachmann 2-10-4 and 4-8-4, and a russian decapod 2-10-0 that ran on a Santa Fe subsidiary, one must use brass to properly model Santa Fe. The 4-8-4's and 2-10-4's ran on the mainlines--to actually "model" Santa Fe, one is going to need other motive power found in brass in limited quantities and sometimes questionable quality. However, the 2-8-0 is common in brass and sometimes affordable, but may require detail upgrades. You cannot just use a Bachmann 2-8-0--the Santa Fe version is way different.
Southern Pacific: OK, one can get Daylight 4-8-4's and cab forwards--but they had an extensive roster of everything else, most of which is only found in brass. The Athearn Genesis MT-4 4-8-2 is a wonderful engine (I have 2). The IHC 2-6-0 is allegedly close to the SP version.
Nickel Plate Road: Berkshires are occasionally available but are always hot sellers which means when one wants one they can actually be difficult to find. USRA 0-8-0's or 0-8-0 copies have been available from P2K, and the light mikado from BLI (which represents only one class of NKP mikado). Also the Spectrum USRA ex-WLE 2-6-6-2. However, to build a truly representative roster of the standard NKP steam power, one must resort to brass, some of which has operational problems. The premium grade models are not cheap. Rolling stock for NKP has historically been more of a challenge to find, at least until very recently.
B&O: Nothing inexpensive in HO ever done to my knowledge excepting the wonderful Bachmann EM-1 only recently released. Must use brass to fill out roster.
C&O: Sure, 2-8-4's, 2-10-4's, and 2-6-6-6's have been done, along with the recent 2-6-6-2--but the vast majority of C&O steam is available only in brass.
NYC: Bowser did one engine. MTH/BLI have done a few more--again, must resort to brass to fill out roster (excepting USRA engines).
New Haven: BLI Brass Hybrid I-5. Otherwise, buy brass steamers made mainly during the 1980's and later by Samhongsa. Great engines, but not cheap and not easy to find.
Illinois Central: Nothing close is cheap--even Bachmann 2-8-0 is modified from IC version. Must buy brass steam.
PRR: Bowser did many. BLI and others have too--but if you look in dealer inventory today one might find even PRR to be more of a challenge to find than in past years. BLI regularly sells out of everything PRR that they do, and there has been plenty--but one must be patient to find all the different models. They just aren't as common as they used to be. I live in the heart of Pennsy territory.
John
doctorwayne Although GN steam has been well-represented in brass, I can't think of any reasonably accurate versions in plastic or Zamac.Since Pennsy was probably the biggest user of Belpaire fireboxes (at least on this side of the Atlantic), and models of many of those locos have been offered in plastic or Zamac, you may find some that could be useful starting points for GN conversions. Canadian National had some Mikados with Belpaire fireboxes, but the only models of which I'm aware are also brass: Wayne
Yes, you made me aware of this some time ago and I found one, it is a late PFM, amazing detail. It is waiting for a painting.
wjstix Actually the GN O-3 Mikados were USRA engines, not copies. Four of the heavy mikes went directly to the GN in April 1919. They later bought five more USRA heavy mikados that originally went to the El Paso & SouthWestern Ry. during the USRA time, but that road found them to be too heavy for their tracks. "Steam Locomotives of the Great Northern Railway" by Middleton and Priebe is probably the best source of GN locomotive information. GN owned six or eight wheel arrangements where at least some of the engines did not have Belpaire fireboxes.
Thanks for the info. I did fill a few slots on the GN roster with BLI GN Heavy Mikados
wjstix Texas Zepher: My research back when I thought I was going to model the GN indicated that any sizable GN steam era layout would look very strange without locomotives that have Belpaire fireboxes. Otherwise one is modeling the exception rather than the rule. I'd agree with that. If I were going to model GN in the "steam era" I would probably fudge a little bit and model more the very early transition era...say circa 1941. By that time, GN had a fair number of diesel switchers, and had just received their first FT's which were used in both freight and passenger service. Those are readily available in plastic model form. Then maybe a couple of BLI USRA heavy mikados, and a Spectrum 4-4-0 for branchline trains, and at least you could start operating. Over time you could fill out the roster with brass engines, purchased over several years to help soften the blow of the cost of brass.
Texas Zepher: My research back when I thought I was going to model the GN indicated that any sizable GN steam era layout would look very strange without locomotives that have Belpaire fireboxes. Otherwise one is modeling the exception rather than the rule.
I have started to fill the GN Roster with brass. Have most of the GN steamers with the exception of the mallets. As fantastic as they look my layout is just too small.
Most of the duplicates on my roster are the H5 Pacifics and O Mikes as they were the mainstay, branchline filled with E class 4-6-0's and F class 2-8-0's
UP 4-12-2 All I have to say is "welcome to the world of steam era modeling". With rather limited exceptions, it is very difficult to assemble a reasonably correct road specific roster of any railroad that isn't PRR without using lots of brass models. There just weren't that many railroads that used standardized or "off the shelf" designs. That's one reason why in the past so many elected to "freelance" their own railroad. We hobbyists might prefer the articulated from road A and the 4-8-4 from road B and the 2-10-4 from road C. Union Pacific: Sure, you can get Big Boys and Challengers, but the other engines are very unique to UP with relatively long front smokeboxes. The BLI 4-8-2 and brass hybrid 2-10-2 are not that common, and in the case of the 2-10-2 can cost more than many other brass models that are out there. Even the MTH 4-12-2 is now harder to find and in serious brass price territory now. Also, UP never owned a 2-6-0, so the cute little Bachmann 2-6-0 with sound and DCC is a "none such". There are many more "none such" engines painted up for the other railroads. Santa Fe: Excepting a few recently done 4-8-4's and 2-10-2's by BLI, and the Bachmann 2-10-4 and 4-8-4, and a russian decapod 2-10-0 that ran on a Santa Fe subsidiary, one must use brass to properly model Santa Fe. The 4-8-4's and 2-10-4's ran on the mainlines--to actually "model" Santa Fe, one is going to need other motive power found in brass in limited quantities and sometimes questionable quality. However, the 2-8-0 is common in brass and sometimes affordable, but may require detail upgrades. You cannot just use a Bachmann 2-8-0--the Santa Fe version is way different. Southern Pacific: OK, one can get Daylight 4-8-4's and cab forwards--but they had an extensive roster of everything else, most of which is only found in brass. The Athearn Genesis MT-4 4-8-2 is a wonderful engine (I have 2). The IHC 2-6-0 is allegedly close to the SP version. Nickel Plate Road: Berkshires are occasionally available but are always hot sellers which means when one wants one they can actually be difficult to find. USRA 0-8-0's or 0-8-0 copies have been available from P2K, and the light mikado from BLI (which represents only one class of NKP mikado). Also the Spectrum USRA ex-WLE 2-6-6-2. However, to build a truly representative roster of the standard NKP steam power, one must resort to brass, some of which has operational problems. The premium grade models are not cheap. Rolling stock for NKP has historically been more of a challenge to find, at least until very recently. B&O: Nothing inexpensive in HO ever done to my knowledge excepting the wonderful Bachmann EM-1 only recently released. Must use brass to fill out roster. C&O: Sure, 2-8-4's, 2-10-4's, and 2-6-6-6's have been done, along with the recent 2-6-6-2--but the vast majority of C&O steam is available only in brass. NYC: Bowser did one engine. MTH/BLI have done a few more--again, must resort to brass to fill out roster (excepting USRA engines). New Haven: BLI Brass Hybrid I-5. Otherwise, buy brass steamers made mainly during the 1980's and later by Samhongsa. Great engines, but not cheap and not easy to find. Illinois Central: Nothing close is cheap--even Bachmann 2-8-0 is modified from IC version. Must buy brass steam. PRR: Bowser did many. BLI and others have too--but if you look in dealer inventory today one might find even PRR to be more of a challenge to find than in past years. BLI regularly sells out of everything PRR that they do, and there has been plenty--but one must be patient to find all the different models. They just aren't as common as they used to be. I live in the heart of Pennsy territory. John
Were you going to mention GN?
Regarding GN steam, the Great Northern Historical Society recently published a truely outstanding book on the topic. This will most likely serve as the number one reference book for GN steam fans for many years. ... I have a copy, and it is hard to put the book down.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Don7--
Did not think I needed to discuss GN as the few engines readily available (affordably) were already well discussed above my long winded list.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
The point is it can be a challenge to model most steam locomotive rosters well, especially without brass or without being a master modeler.
UP 4-12-2 Don7-- Did not think I needed to discuss GN as the few engines readily available (affordably) were already well discussed above my long winded list. Sorry if I offended anyone. The point is it can be a challenge to model most steam locomotive rosters well, especially without brass or without being a master modeler. John
No offence taken, I thought your post was informative and interesting. I just thought you might have a few GN items to discuss as well.
I've looked into modeling several of the roads discussed above at one time or another, but then gave up because the locomotives I wanted or felt I needed just weren't readily available.
Now I realize it's my railroad and if I want to have a wandering B&O EM-1 show up in the desert on the Sunset Route, then that's perfectly ok.
At the end of the day I have to buy what makes me happy, and the EM-1 was cleared to run into my father's home town of Butler, PA, so I need one (the B&LE 2-10-4, which was common there, has only been correctly modeled in brass by five custom modified locomotives--total--so I doubt I'll ever even see one of them let alone be able to afford to buy it).
Best Regards--