OK, we all know that the PK 2000 E8/9's with sound are slow. Most here seem to think it is the gearing of the engines. (I all so wonder if it might be the motor, they are smaller than the E 6 PK 2000 motors)
Reason I am beating this dead horse topic is because I am a little worried about burning out the motor or decoder. To get the engine to run 50 scale MPH I have to turn the throttle up to 74% power. To get her to move 60 scale MPH I have to crank it up to 97% power. I do have 95 foot of main, and I do like to crank it up some times and watch it passing freight trains.
I run DCC a Digitrax SEB.
I am pulling 9 Con Cor passenger cars, that have there wheels worked and are just a tad over NMRA standards
So the questions are.
1 Do you think I will hurt the motor or QSI decoder running it around 70% to 97% power?
2 Are all PK 2000 E 8/9 slow, or just the one's with sound?
3 Has anyone tried switching PK 2000's E-6 gears into the 8/9 trucks?
4 I can all so pick up a pair of none sound PK 2000's E 8/9's for a fair prices, will they be as slow?
If most people here think I will not hurt the motor or decoder at the power levels I am running at then I will leave the gears a lone. I do have a E 6 that I could take the gears from.
Thank you for the coming answers.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken 1 Do you think I will hurt the motor or QSI decoder running it around 70% to 97% power?
All my Proto 6 axle ( Es, SD7S, SD 50?60s all run much slower than all My other stuff. These aren't new versions or sound. the early units used 18:1 ratio, but I believe the newer are 14:1. I use the 3 SD50s the most and end up w/ the same results as you do. I have been running them this way for many years and will run for hours at a time during shows. I feel this type of running actually keeps them running better. I know you like to run that notch 8, but i don't believe you will hurt the motor, you know that the way they pull you're not loading those bad boys a bit. Stall or load will cook it not speed. I have actually hurt a couple Atlas GP38/40s by running with these. The Atlas even last w/ pulling the train still wanted to over run the Protos. this has caused excessive wear and have gear noise now. Of course I don't want to slow down all 20 of my Atlas, I just run the P2Ks separately and the way you do.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Other way around? 18:1 is a greater reduction so for the same motor speed 18:1 would turn the drive wheels slower than 14:1.
It's not going to hurt anything to run wide open. Theoretically it should be less heat in the decoder because the motor drivers are in the on state more instead of more off and blocking current. As long as you aren't hookign so many cars on that the loco is nearly stalling, the motor should do jut fine as well. My locos run many hour+ sessions at club shows with no problems, although not at full throttle, realistic speeds only, which for my Geeps is no more than 50% throttle.
If these are newer ones, you might want to try one of the different drive modes int he QSI decoders. See if that can coax a little mre speed out of them. Are they really only going 50 wide open if you use the function that speaks the current speed?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have 9 Proto 2000 E8/9 and one E7. Of them all my oldest unit runs the slowest. I have always had to crank it a bit even when it was new. My E8 with sound runs like all the others and it's just fine. It does seem to vary unit to unit to a degree. They are a little heavy.
RMax
Randy, when it is warmed up, at 97% throttle the voices read out of the decoder say's it is hitting 60 to 65 MPH depending on the section of track . (grade or turn) Engine will hit 70 mph when it not dragging any cars. Far as the passenger cars over taxing the engine, no. As I said they pull pretty easy. My PK 2000 SW 1500 switcher can pull the whole string.
Far as pulling power, the E 8/9 is a bit weak in the knees. If I where to guess, it might pull 25 cars? I was very disappointed with it when I got it. My PK E 6's on the other hand will drag 50 + cars. I have never weight them, and the E 8/9 might be lighter because of the speakers. But, then again, the E 6s motors are a 3rd bigger.
Well, if you folks agreeing running it at higher throttle settings will not hurt anything, I am fine with the speed. After all it is a train and not a slot car.
Thanks to all that took there time to answer!
There's likely a very significant weight difference once space was carved out for the speakers. The non-sound ones are almost solid metal inside, except for the motor cavity, the slot across the top for the wires, and the little shelf on the back for the light board.
As long as it slips when too many cars are attached, it's good. Stalling the motor is bad.
You want heavy - Proto 1000 DL109. That entire shovel nose has a metal casting under it, SOLID piece. They weigh a ton.
rrinker Other way around? 18:1 is a greater reduction so for the same motor speed 18:1 would turn the drive wheels slower than 14:1. It's not going to hurt anything to run wide open. Theoretically it should be less heat in the decoder because the motor drivers are in the on state more instead of more off and blocking current. As long as you aren't hookign so many cars on that the loco is nearly stalling, the motor should do jut fine as well. My locos run many hour+ sessions at club shows with no problems, although not at full throttle, realistic speeds only, which for my Geeps is no more than 50% throttle. If these are newer ones, you might want to try one of the different drive modes int he QSI decoders. See if that can coax a little mre speed out of them. Are they really only going 50 wide open if you use the function that speaks the current speed? --Randy
Randy, what's the other way around? Yes the 18:1 of coarse will run slower than 14:1 for the same motor RPM. All my 6 axle P2Ks are 18:1 ratio, don't know when the newer units started to use the 14:1.
Well, they must have greatly changed the motor then too, if the new ones are 14:1 gears but run SLOWER, which is the general complaint. I would have expected the slower ones to have the 18:1 gears and the older faster ones to have the 14:1.
Maybe Brakie can chime in on this one. He's been quite knowledgable, especially when it come to Protos "gear ratio of the month" as he calls it. I don't have any of the newer units or any w/ sound. All mine are older ones as stated that are 18:1, and they do run much slower than all my other, Atlas, Stewart/ Kato, Katos, BLI and Athearns. I don't know for a fact or own any of the newer ones, The issue of the gearing change is from dealers and many others that claim they use the 14:1. It is possible that this is untrue and all 6 axle have the same 18:1. I don't mind this, but would ocasionally like to MU w/ other equipment. I'm not going to change CVs on 80% of my equipment just to do this. I had some succuess, I though anyway, by running Atlas GP40 or 38s w/ the SD50s. Eventually the drive has been affected in these by trying to "overrun" the slower P2Ks. I thought by having the faster, Atlas, last in the consist would help as it was slowed considerably by doing most of the work pulling 30+ hoppers. The slower Sds were just going along for the ride out front and there when needed on a grade. decending grades is another story, this is where I started to notice gear chatter/ noise starting in the Atlas units.
Ken's unit has to be something going on w/ the motor, board or some other issue. The gearing alone would only cause slower running, but not that slow.
Bob, it has all wise been slow and I bought it new. Engine has around 100 hours on it and only thing I have doe was to oil the motor.
If you don't think the gearing has anything to do with it then my guess it is the smaller motor. Either way I can deal with the slower speeds. At 55 MPH, it covers the rails at a fair clip.
Thanks for the answer.
Ken
Hi,
I've got two of the IC E units - both with factory DCC and sound - and they easily pull 8 Walthers passenger cars with ease and at a pretty good clip. I wouldn't want them to run any faster, but don't know what scale mph they actually run at.
FWIW, my track is pretty clean and I've got feeders every 3-4 feet.....................
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Mobilman, if they have QSI decoder's press F 10 and they will call out there speed.
The old original P2K E-units had 12:1 gearing, just like Athearn. They moved out fairly well.
Walthers went in and put 14:1 gears in the E units during the retool and new drives, and got complaints that the new ones topped out at 65 mph, freight speed, but nowhere near the 117 mph some of the full-size E-units were geared for. I think maybe the PRR E-units now have 12:1 gears, to get closer to passenger speeds.
The SD50-60 had 18:1 gearing. The SD7-9 and SWs had 14:1, similar to Kato and Atlas. SD45 had 9:1. U28B had maybe 6:1. GP38-2s were real goofy, best to put something different under it.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Ken, I have two of the P2K 2000 E8/9 locos, a PRR and a NYC, with QSI sound.
They both run pretty fast at top speed and easily pull 10 Walthers passenger cars.
I pressed F10 on the longest stretch of straight track, and I got readings ranging from 90 to 93 MPH.
Rich
Alton Junction