Tom,
I think it's the lighting causing these issues. If you see in my video, where it begins, I have better lighting in there, and the colors seem OK. And when it goes into the main room, you start seeing the purple. Because my lighting isn't that great in there.
I was gonna try another video during the day when sunlight shines into the room.
Since your layout is in the garage, your lighting probably isn't that great either. Could you hook up some temporary lighting in your garage? Could you open your garage during the day and let sun shine in?
You should be plugging in the memory card to your computer. Then just open up windows file explorer, go to my computer, and then the memory card. Just copy the video file to your hard drive somewhere, My Documents or My Pictures, etc.
Then find out what the file size is, right click on the file and then select properties. If it's a very large like 500mb file, then that's why youtube is coming up with upload time.
Try deleting the file off of the memory card, and shoot another video. And again, just copy the file from the memory card to your computer. Don't use any other programs for this.
One last thing, turn off your loco lights, it screws with the infrared in the tunnels.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Michael:
Actually, the big hang-up for me is the focus aspect. Anything that comes close to the camera becomes blurred--the little camera I have from MicroMark which is not much larger, has much better focus and depth (its only drawback is that I have to record it directly to DVD instead of being able to download it directly into the computer). And since I prefer to run the camera mid-train and not pushed ahead of the locomotive, the field of depth just doesn't make it. I'm going to return it and look for a slightly larger video camera with more focus control.
I can see it working well in a helicopter with an 'infinite' field of depth, but for close-up work in 1/87 scale, it's not what I'm looking for. I took the initial video with the garage door open and plenty of light, but it still did very weird things with the color, and again there was a focus problem.
Oh well, LOL!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
MisterBeasley richhotrain: You blew up your wife's wrist watch? At least she wasn't wearing it at the time.
richhotrain: You blew up your wife's wrist watch?
You blew up your wife's wrist watch?
At least she wasn't wearing it at the time.
Is that good or bad?
Alton Junction
I think the real issue is depth of field within focus range. This camera is a pinhole type which is famous for needing a lot of light, but having a decent closeup focus coupled with a nearly infinite depth of field.
With a simple "real lens" equipped small camera, you can often focus at ranges a close as 1/2" or better, but your depth of field and focus at infinity is terrible. Thus, the pinhole camera predominates where long focus ranges to create good depth of field is needed. You can always pump in more light.
Using mirrors to force your nearest object's focus out about another 5 inches might do the trick here.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
Okay, went out and bought a new MicroSD-8 card for the Dice. Inserted it and took a video. Came out okay--with the lighting I have in my garage, I suppose I can live with purple trees, LOL!
Downloaded it directly into the computer and sent it to My Documents. Ended up in My Documents with over 831,000KB. Now there's no way I can load that many KB into Youtube without waiting about 3 hours for it to download. The video is about 10 minutes long, because that's how long it takes me to run a train completely around the layout (who needs a Fast Clock, LOL?).
Does anyone know how to 'shrink' the KB once it's in the computer? I'm at my wits end with this one. Any help for this Computer Challenged guy will be appreciated.
PS: The video is kind of neat. I had no idea I had so many CLIFFS! But I'll be an even OLDER Old Man before it gets loaded onto Youtube at this rate.
It takes a long time for me to upload to You-Tube as well. Go watch a movie or do like me and start it at bed time. It will be ready for all of us to enjoy with our Saturday morning cuppa.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Format Factory is a free program that can convert extremely large video files in AVI down to small files in WMF. You can also specify the quality of the WMF file, from best, down to merely 'good', to produce a file small enough to email!
http://format-factory.en.softonic.com/
BATMAN Tom It takes a long time for me to upload to You-Tube as well. Go watch a movie or do like me and start it at bed time. It will be ready for all of us to enjoy with our Saturday morning cuppa. Brent
Brent:
Excellent idea. You'd think I was downloading the 8-hour Russian movie version of "War and Peace", LOL!
I think a long, involved phone call to my computer-genius son in Vancouver is in order, tomorrow, though.
Well, further nightmares. It didn't load. Got up to 51% on YouTube and just quit. So obviously I have to find out how to either download video with less KB or reduce it once it's downloaded. Sheesh!
I thought this would be like my Sony 7.2 camera--put the memory card in Image Transfer, download it into My Documents Image Transfer and bring it up anytime I wanted. And yes, I've done videos through the camera--granted they're shorter, about 2-3 minutes long, but had no problem uploading them to YouTube. Unfortunately, Image Transfer will NOT accept the memory card out of this little camera, and downloading the video directly into the computer seems to explode the KB all over the place.
Back to the drawing board, (sigh). Really, guys, this little Dice mini-cam has turned out to be a Major Pain in the posterior, LOL!
twhite my computer-genius son
my computer-genius son
I have one of those too, also a daughter. My son is in grade seven and has taken computer tech since Kindergarten. They have an amazing tech lab and get all new updated computers every two years. No wonder I look like an idiot to them.
Anyway back to your problem. I think You-Tube will only allow videos a maximum ten minutes in length so could that be the problem? After all that's a mighty impressive empire your about to show off. As a paying customer with coffee in hand I am happy to watch the show in two parts especially if it is higher quality.
A lot of those instructional videos come in several parts. They are all no more than ten minutes in length. Just a thought or two from one technology challenged person to another.
I never thought of that. You're right, it does take ten minutes--at least--to get a train around the entire layout, and maybe if I try chopping it up into two or three parts, it might load. I did find a program that reduced the K quite a bit, and got it loaded and finalized onto You Tube, but then it promptly faded into the ether. It gave me a URL, but then THAT didn't work trying to bring it up--
Whew!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rEyMumoq9Q
Oops, found it again. Let's see--nope. Not found. "The Video you requested is not available." This is stranger and stranger.
I put one on order, but in the meantime I'm making a platform for it from an old passenger truck. It will almost resemble an old tyco truck with a coupler, a flat base & a longer wheelbase. I added some 33" metal wheels & the axle spacing will let me add lots of lead too. I will use it as a push truck, as any flat car will be able to be used mid train. I won't get the camera until late next weekend, so I may update later on. Yes, I feel the pain of Video still being about roughly 80Mb to a 100Mb a minute for good quality.Thanks guys, this is an interesting thread to follow.
Well, after fiddling around with reducing the file, I think I finally got one loaded on Youtube. Unfortunately, the focus is lousy, as is the color. Anyway, here it is, I think.
http://youtu.be/N1CI3X5Ec9U
I had to reduce it to about phone size to get it to load. Not that it was that good to begin with. I think I'll get me a real video camera that I can mount on a flatcar. Something with good resolution.
Tom that is one incredible layout! That is great!
Yes, I can see everything you stated before about the performance of the camera.Taking that away & knowing the limitations of the camera, that is a great video, thanks for the layout tour!
Although I I have looked at small Helmet cams & other compact ones, I want something HD, so I was looking at a small JVC.For now, I think I will just goof around with the Dice (when I get it) & besides I only have a 2' x 6' switch ladder right now. ha hah...
Chad:
I think the camera will work a lot better if it's mounted ahead of the locomotive, so the pin-hole can focus better. That was my mistake, mounting it about 4 cars back. Check out Motley's video on this same thread--his clarity is much better. He's got a REALLY neat layout, too.
I think tomorrow I'll mount the camera ahead of the locomotive and see if the focus and color definition are a little better. I think if I mount a couple more overhead lights (spots) and film it with the garage door open around noon when the sun is directly overhead, I might get a better video out of it.
But hoo boy, reducing the size of the video so that YouTube will accept it was a MAJOR headache! Luckily, I only have to go through that nightmare, once.
And thanks for the compliment on the MR. I didn't realize until I timed the video that it takes a train almost 10 minutes to make a complete journey in and out--and I stopped the video before the scenery ran out, too, LOL!
Hi Chad,
I enjoyed your video and layout tour. One thing that will help a lot with these and most cameras is extra light. The brighter your train room the better the pictures will be. I notice this with my videos taken on other peoples layouts and at shows. Even a couple of spotlights bounced off a white ceiling will make the picture less grainy and the colours closer to true colours.
cheers
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
Hi Alan,I apologize, that is Tom's excellent layout. I am building a platform truck to push when my camera arrives. & to everyone who posted a video, I really enjoy them, what is neat is we will never really see any of the same thing, as everyone will have built their layouts differently.I am still excited that we have the technology to be able to do this, although it may not be perfect, it is pretty darn neat to see.
Thanks for the correction Chad,
great layout Tom!
I've enjoyed all the layouts too.
Okay, just uploaded a second video done with the Dice:
http://youtu.be/01qdTTbFQCs
This one was done with better lighting, but the focus quality is still not that great. I think part of the problem is that it downloads into the computer at such an enormous load of KB that I have to use an AVI program to reduce it in order for Youtube to accept it for loading, otherwise, it would take about 6-8- hours.
I thought my trackwork was bullet-proof, but wouldn't you know it, I had a derailment between tunnel 3 and 4 on the video. Luckily I kept the cursing low so you can't hear it, LOL!
I was telling Chad in a PM that there is a guy on Youtube that lives in Ft. Collins, CO that has one of the most awesome mountain model railroads I've ever seen--at least since John Allen, LOL! If you're interested to see what he did with an on-board camera, I don't haver the URL, but get onto Youtube and type in SOUTHERN PACIFIC IN THE CASCADES PART 5--CAB FORWARD. The quality of the video (and the layout) is simply stunning!
I'm afraid I don't understand why there is a belief that one should be able to upload what comes out of the camera without re-formatting. Unless you specify otherwise, most video programs, including the one in your minicam, will produce the largest file that it can, to ensure a high quality end result. It doesn't say anywhere that you are expected or have to use this huge file.
This can be easily done by using a built-in program like Windows Movie maker or an external program like the other one I mentioned, Format Factory & setting the output to a small size. I have done this many times, as I could never upload what originally comes out of my Adobe programs - imagine a nine-second video, that is 845 MB in size, larger than most commercial DVDs.
Here's an early attempt using the rectangular spycam with the 'permanent' timestamp.
This shoot illustrates another tip (as in, I should've..); film while running your train s-l-o-w-l-y...you can always speed it up later. That way, you'll retain visual clarity while on curves.
?action=view¤t=SilentTrain.mp4
Bigpianoguy:
Thanks for that information. Believe me, I'm brand new to this video thing and I didn't know that cameras loaded the information in the largest format possible. I tried Format Factory and got totally lost with the Tech-Speak, so went to AVI, which is much more understandable for a bare-bones novice like myself, LOL!
But I will say that even viewing the initial download from the Dice on my computer before re-formatting, the focus quality wasn't that great, especially since distances on model railroads are finite. I think it was really designed for RC helcopters and planes, where distances are much more infinite. And for that, it's a really good camera. But I think it has definite drawbacks on a model railroad.
My video came out sharper but I did like what was noted above, I used Windows Movie Maker and it kept the quality. But i did not make as large of a video so the long Youtube time uploading was not an issue, it still took awhile, which I think an issue at Youtube's end. As for the purple trees, I suspect it is either two things, 1) the color correction is either set for natural or fluorescent lighting as that part of my layout looks fine and the part that has incandescent has the purple trees or 2), the camera does the adjustment on the first light it sees and goes from there, which I started under the flourescent section.. Tonight I will start under the incandescents to test that theory.
Your video is really nice, but those 4 IR LEDS are ON! place black electrical tape over them! The burple/lavender color should disappear and things get a bit darker. Give it a shot. I now have my Camera and hope to shoot something on my 1/10th completed layout soon. I also want to see if I can find a trace in the guts of the camera to cut common power to all the IR leds in the thing to avoid the black tape.
Everyone needs to realize this is a high resolution camera recording in high definition 720P 1280X720 resolution and recording in this mode gobbles up memory and creates giant files per unit time recorded.
Richard:
Thank you for the hint. I didn't know that those LED's came on automatically, nothing in the very sketchy instructions for the camera mentioned that.
Now I've got a question, if I can state it clearly, I mean, LOL! Do you know of a download program that will reduce the memory file but still retain a decent resolution? I've used AVI for the two videos, and it reduced the memory file, but the resolution hasn't turned out very clear.
I've downloaded a few videos to DVD in the past, but this is my first time attempting to download into a computer, and I've got to say that I'm totally at sea with the process.
Tom, I loved the trip around your layout. When I saw you had posted it I had to put on another pot in anticipation of the trip. I also watched the Cascade one you mentioned and enjoyed it. I found that a very interesting way to film that trip looking back at the Loco.
I suggested earlier in the thread that maybe a camera platform mounted directly to a truck might offer an alternative to using a flatcar as it would keep the camera in a better position to look down the track. Well in the video Tom mentioned, if you look off to the left at about the 25 second mark it looks like our host has built just the thing I was talking about. He must be a smart guy. Anyway here is the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LakFC_EJxS0
Keepem comin guys.They're great!
Thanks for the tip Richard. I'm going to try using the tape on the IR sensors on mine.
All with these camera's.....I spent about 3 hours monkeying around with my camera last night and have some data to pass on.
The black electrical tape works great, but I still got some leakage! (The tape will work OK but here is the ultimate solution) I am an electronics engineer and electronic hobbyist so I have little fear.
I took out the four screws with a fine phillips and, with some difficulty, opened the case. (the difficulty comes in their tripod thread mount lip and the molding of the case half around it.) Just force the shell halves apart with a screw driver blade by twisting it. All came apart OK with no breakage. The camera will really fall into two halves held together by a flat ribbon cable to the camra chip.
Locate the board with the camera, and the LEDS. There is a small black, rectangular surface mount transistor that is obvious near the edge of the back of this board. This is the 4 LED driver transistor. Surface mount transitors have three leads. Two of them are on one side and the collector lead is on the other. The collector lead is the one single visible lead showing in the middle of this small rectangle. It is tiny, but with a very sharp, pointed pair of diagonal cutters or rail nippers, it can be simply cut. Once cut, using a tiny blade screw driver, just pry it up slightly away from the board and the remnant board connection you just cut. A dab of model airplane glue between then will insulate in a manner that even if they do touch in future, no contact is made.
Now, carefully refit and seal up the case and put the screws back. You have now permanently disabled the IR LEDS. Give your camera a quick recording test in a darker area against a white piece of paper and you should only see a dim white field on playback and not a lavender field.
Another discovery!! This camera can't be used in tungsten lighting! This is especially true with the naked filament, reflector type track lighting or you will have gross color shifting! (green trees are white or gray). Tungsten puts out intense IR! I had installed a simple 4 track lighting halogen type reflector over the small finished part of my layout for photography. This was horrid on video playback!!!! Fortunately, the entire attic room is lit only by fluorescent lighting.
Turning off the tungsten track lamps and going with only fluorescent lighting was perfect! All colors were perfect. So kill all tungsten lighting and kill the LEDS either with the "stop-gap" electrical tap or total electrical disabling and you will have a nice camera system.
Now to the focus issue. I found I didn't care about close focus and using three HOn3 cars behind the K-27 engine, on playback, the engine and all forward of it was in clear focus. I placed two high side gondolas after the engine and then a flat car. I mounted the camera with tape, (temporary), as far back on the flat car that I could and ran the train. I was very happy with the result. By offsetting the camera slightly I got some great turn shots of my K-27 valve gear and sides of the gondolas. COOL!
Unfortunately I can't supply the niffty movie files, but I did take a photo picture of my computer screen on playback showing the colors being right. Note* the images are much better that shown here in reality, as a picture taken of a computer screen is a definite downgrade.
narrow gauge nuclear Another discovery!! This camera can't be used in tungsten lighting! This is especially true with the naked filament, reflector type track lighting or you will have gross color shifting! (green trees are white or gray). Tungsten puts out intense IR! I had installed a simple 4 track lighting halogen type reflector over the small finished part of my layout for photography. This was horrid on video playback!!!! Fortunately, the entire attic room is lit only by fluorescent lighting. Turning off the tungsten track lamps and going with only fluorescent lighting was perfect! All colors were perfect. So kill all tungsten lighting and kill the LEDS either with the "stop-gap" electrical tap or total electrical disabling and you will have a nice camera system.
Thanks Richard for confirming the lighting issue. I did not get to play around with the camera last to test that same theory.
Well, well, seems I have to turn off my floods, LOL! Luckily, I've got flourescent lighting in the garage, so I'll experiment today. I'm going to temporarily disable the LED's with electrical tape and see if that makes a difference (thank you, Richard for the instructions on permanently disabling them, BTW! ).
And guess what I found in one of my rolling-stock drawers--a Walthers articulated depressed center flatcar! Forgot I even had the darned thing (hey, I'm over 70, I'm allowed, LOL!). And that little Dice will mount very comfortably on one of the articulated ends of the car, so the next video I take today will utilize it. It's kinda/sorta the same thing that BillR used on his Southern Pacific video in case anyone watched it. (Brent kindly downloaded the link)
I'm getting a lot of great information from you guys on how to use this little camera. And as a novice at this whole thing, I thank you all very much.
Now to head out to the garage for some more movie-making.